Hi Barbara,

That is interesting. I have been told that we don't have midge here, but we have so many critters that perhaps they eat the midge. Thrips are my worst critters. LOL

Why don't you list your successes?

SAmmy

hi, Barbara,
It sounds like you're making progress, and I'm glad to hear your watering can AACT story and (maybe) its effect on midge and bs.

Also, I'm glad to hear about your fairy tales as I have two of them, caramel and golden, and both of these have been very clean for me.

Into my second no spray year I'm always glad to hear another's progress too. That's all very encouraging, and I hope that the midge completely disappears over the next year or two. When is midge the worst in the season? Or does it have peaks?

I'm sorry to hear about Golden Wings; that is a lovely rose from all the pics I've seen of it...

Gean

Thanks for the report-----I really don't know what a midge looks like---so far I guess I;m lucky---Mu roses all look pretty good this year----I haven't sprayed anything for longer than I can remember---I used to spray when I had a lot of HT's but I didn't like the smell or the work involved so it is survival of the fittest-----the JB's haven't arrived yet---Last year we hardly had any at all hope it repeats this year--

My Clair Matin is happily on her second flush. I had to cut her back a lot after blooming she was covering the path but she responded with a flourish---a great rose.

Florence

Bbinpa, when you say midged are you talking about the first new growth were the bloom will be? It turns brown drys out and no bloom? I am having that problem, bigtime! (I am in San Diego,Ca.)
I have been reading so much about roses lately I can't remember what causes what I am going through. Too much info in my head right now:-) That is why I am asking.
Thanks,
Allison

Thank you all for your interest!

Sammy,it really is too soon to brag about success with either BS or the midge. Last year the serious BS hit in late summer and early fall. Midge seem to increase as the summer heat increases. By mid summer their abundance is very apparent. I will definitely speak about disease & midge later this year.

Gean, as stated-mid summer. In some cases I have to cut ALL new growth off of roses. It is a real bummer.

Zeffy, I've never seen a midge either. They are hardly visible. It is the evidence of their destruction that is so evident. You are very lucky not to have them as I believe PA is a hot spot for midge. Clair Matin looks beautiful in photos I've seen. I'll have to look into this rose.

Allison, I know midge are present on the west coast, but if you search the Rose Forum and look for harryshoe's postings, he produced some excellent examples of midged growth. It is unmistakable. Also, Baldo's web site has some good photos.

When I inspect the roses, I look for any discolored new growth, a little tiny brown spot is sometimes visible. That new growth gets snipped and pocketed or bagged immediately. Also, if I gently hold those barely new petels, the tiny ones on new growth, and without much pressure they fall off, I figure that could be midged new growth as well. It gets snipped. I may be all wet here, but this is my only defense at prevention. I'm hoping I can capture the larvae before they drop in the soil.

Also, when I snip, I look further down the cane. I have seen midge signs not only at the top but at each node below for two to three nodes-however long the soft tissue of new growth is.

Snipping midged growth is a necessity anyway, because the rose will not continue to grow from that spot once invaded.

Again, your support is so appreciated.

Barbara

Barbara, thank you very much for the time and information. it is much appreciated. Good luck and many many blooms for you!
Allison

Barbara, thank you very much. My Floral Fairy Tale is a mess (it has not been sprayed this season), but Caramel Fairy Tale looks good.

And I appreciate the update on midge (click on the link to see the insect and the damage). Horrible beast. Thanks for the note on the damage on the neck and down the cane.

Do you winter protect Lady H at all? I lost mine a few years ago, and am too chicken to try again...

Diane, I'm sorry to hear that your FFT is suffering. Mine is still very clean and now with less midge damage it is blooming. It just goes to show that someone's dream rose is another's nightmare.

No, I do not winter protect any of my roses. Lady H was cut to the ground this year and is only about 3 feet, maybe less, now, but she is blooming. She is also in a very exposed position, along the driveway. The asphalt may warm the soil a bit, but she is otherwise very exposed to the elements. I think the dryness of last winter did her more damage than cold. Her canes were cripsy brown this spring.

Thanks for the link to the midge photos. If you look at the last photo in that series, you will see what appears to be earlier damage from midge after the larvae have fallen. I try to search for new growth prior to that stage. There is usually a slight brown shadow that to me indicates an early invasion. I believe it is possible that midge larvae are still present in the stem. That's when I snip. I wish I had a microscope to examine the stem to see if I'm doing any good. I'm not a scientist, so even with a microscope, I probably wouldn't know what I was looking at.

Thanks for your interest.

Barbara

Thank you for the update on your no spray roses. I am also going no spray to help the bees, butterflies, and bats.
I live in Michigan and have mostly rugosas(Blanc Double de Coubert,Buffalo Gal,Henry Hudson,Jens Munk,Fru Dagmar Hastup,Roseraie de l'Ha, and Schneekoppe)with a few OGRs(Penelope,Mme Isaac Pereire,Jacques Cartier,Souvenir de la Malmaison,Konigin von Danemark. and Zephirine Drouhin) I also have Aunt Honey,Autunm Sunset,Westerland,and Abraham Darby.
This my second year growing roses so I'm anxious to hear how everyone else is doing. I don't think we have midge up here(fingers crossed), maybe the japanese beetles ate them!LOL!
-B

Brandy, you have some good roses. I love my rugosas. They are so easy.

I would not wish midge on my worst enemy and how I wish the JBs would eat them. I have plenty of those too. If I had to choose my enemies, between these two I would take the JBs. They have a shorter season of destruction and at least I can see them. I generally collect the JBs in a bucket of soapy water and watch them drown!

Barbara

I've had it and am going to spray, will take every precaution to protecting bees and only target specific plants that either aren't blooming or rose bushes (cut all the blooms, buds, and pruned back).

I'm first going after the Japanese Beetles with Sevin, then will use Orthonex (taken off the market but they said I could still use my unopened bottle) for blackspot and whatever else I can get rid of. All of my roses, every single one, except the ones with shiny leaves, two babies and one volunteer, have problems. My one once bloomer that had such nice blooms looks like a ragged mess; it will survive. Again, whatever I use will take every precaution to protect the bees that are left (bumblebees and yellow jackets, no honeybees).

I've been "organic" for 3 years, isn't working and don't have the energy to make the teas and all the rest of it when it still might not work for me.

Aliska,

Don't forget to take the necessary precautions for yourself as well. Wear long sleeves, long pants, gloves, goggles and most important of all a good respirator, the kind that makes you look like you have a monkey face. Immediately after spraying, dump the clothes in the washing machine and run naked to the shower.

I understand your frustration. Good luck.

Barbara

Barbara, I got plastic coveralls with a hood, rubber slip-on boots, socks, surgical gloves, goggles all ready to go, but those respirators were so expensive.

I have two dust masks and might be able to tie a bandanna on or something; I know they won't work as well. I'll try not to get too close to inhale the stuff. I even stuffed cotton in my nostrils but that won't work.

Then with the coveralls, I'm hoping I can hose them down well, hang to dry, and use them again. They will tear if I get snagged on a rose thorn, will try not to.

That way I won't have to worry about separate laundry and my clothing because I may have to do it over subsequent days, will just wash my face well. Socks I can just hand launder, then launder again with the rest of my stuff.

I'm going to have to shield anything with flowers with a "portable" barrier of heavy plastic and/or plastic throws which I can rinse off. My other one got wedged behind a heavy piano where I can't get at it. Cardboard doesn't seem like a good idea for this.

There's a lot involved in this, and I've been on the phone with 3 places now (about this and other products) trying to make sure I understand exactly how to go about it, read everything carefully.

I don't think I'll have to be quite this careful with some of the rest I have to use. Most people around here are spraying whatever they use, Roundup for sure, in their shorts or regular clothes. Guys, of course.

Thank you for your concern.

Aliska, invest in a good respirator! Depending on what you use, this stuff can easily be absorbed through the pores. There is no substitute for a respirator. A slight unexpected breeze will blow this stuff right at you. The paper ones will not work. The filters can be replaced and are relatively inexpensive.

Some of the fungicides and pesticides in use were developed from mustard gas, so, yes, it can be lethal. One spraying will not do the job on your problems, and you will have to repeat with some regularity.

You should also read a little book called "The Truth about Organic Gardening". It is the best unbiased review of all things synthetic and organic. It tells you what the affect on the environment is and the relative safety of both. He does not mince words and admits himself to using both means of control.

It isn't that you cannot spray fungicides and pesticides safely; you just must take normal precautions. Also, keep you pets and other people out of the garden while you are spraying. After it dries, they can safely return. Don't be penny wise and pound foolish!

Barbara

Barbara, I will try to read or at least skim over that book (have difficulty concentrating for too long now) and next time I'm at the hardware store will get a respirator then, oh with glasses, goggles and that, it is not going to be easy. They are a little more helpful and knowledgeable generally than big box stores.

I stuffed a bandanna into the masks, know from reading about other things small particulate especially liquid still can get through, but I'm old and if one thing doesn't get me it's going to be another, none pretty. I feel I'm ok for now, feel sorry for people who do that for a living. I know for fact the young guy who I FINALLY got to come in years ago and spray for cockroaches and fleas got some pneumonia-like affliction, and we both agreed it was probably from his work with chemicals. He used no protection other than pants and long shirt IIRC and did it all day, every day, inside and out, much of the year.

I've always hated any sprays in my house for anything, one reason I like to stay independent because you have no choice in almost all community living situations. They spray on a regular basis; it's mandatory, and I'm not real confident they have but minimal concern for the occupants or people who do it, just so things "look" nice. Sometimes there is no other way. But it seems they spray routinely as a preventive.

In spite of taking so many precautions and doing my homework as best I could w/new equipment and things I've never attempted before, I ran into several little problems. The spray itself once you get it going is easy enough, but anything can go wrong at any time. It's just faith that the dial actually delivers the correct dilution.

I'll only mention a couple of things but there were more, that is nasty stuff to work with and hard to clean.

I need some longer rubber gloves as found one unused pair left of surgical gloves, and by the time I was done, my hands felt slimy, could be from sweat, but I think some got in, washed several times with soap and water.

The other thing was maybe stupid on my part but the way they tell you to clean the dial container. I could work at the faucet with that because there's bare ground, but you have to unscrew it while the spray part is still on the hose, rinse out as well as you can, on the other side of the two-way diverter I have there, and it takes several rinsings to get it out. NEVER unscrew the dial part from the hose connection until you've got it as clean as you can, why later. Then you screw it back on and clear out the spray part and uptake tube, says two short bursts (and even rinsed those other parts under running water, don't think instructions said. I did five bursts and maybe shouldn't have.

But either way, when you finally think you are done, turn off the water, start to unscrew at the hose connection, the pressure left in the hose squirts water. And I noticed in spite of my care, there was still slight evidence of milky liquid in the container, much diluted but still there.

Being alone, few people or pets ever come into my yard. I let the cat out for the night, he's back, hope he didn't walk through that area, it can take awhile to dry and for things to develop.

So it's a good thing I quit when I did and not attempt anything in the front. Maybe from now on I'll just do those several specific plants I did and probably not as often as necessary because I procrastinate anyway.

No way could I have suited up and done that if it had been hotter, so that's a future consideration.

I don't know how other people deal with this stuff. It was quite the learning experience.

If somebody locally could convince me that organics really work and show evidence of clean roses like I see so much here (this was mostly to save my cherry trees and a few other congregating plants that aren't blooming), it won't seem like as much trouble because spraying is trouble, too. Kelp I don't worry about any of it, practiced with that in my pump sprayer.

Well, since I've done another one of my diatribes, I was thinking about writing a blog in our local paper about my experience with iminicloprid. The Bayer product for spraying that has evidently flown off the shelves. Here we are with no honeybees, and we want to keep our pretty blooms and kill bumblebees and other pollinators? At least I thought of them and took off the blooms or targeted things that aren't blooming now. Madness.

But I think I'll hold off on that because I don't feel comfortable writing on one of those things, few read them anyway. My neighbor across the street says he has no JB's.

Wow - you folks in zones 6&7 (and hotter humid areas) sure do have some real challenges with JBs and rampant mildew. I don't spray, but I think our very hot & dry climate (May through Oct) helps keep down the mildew naturally, and so far we don't have JBs at all.

Some of my tea roses get a little mildew if Spring is cool & damper than usual, but it mostly clears up by June when the hot dry weather sets in. No rust, except on the @#$%&^* hybrid teas - I only have 6 of them, all because they were planted by my husbands grandfather in the 1930s - 1950s, , and are family heirlooms.

My other 100 -odd roses are teas, chinas, hybrid musks, noisettes, banksias, with a few modern climbers and ground cover roses.

So, sounds like I am having success without spraying mainly because of the climate, and growing mostly healthy type roses. What I enjoy most about not spraying (as well, of course, as not having to suit up as if I were going into outer space) is the variety of insect, bird and other wildlife we have here everyday. Despite living only 3 blocks from the downtown area of our town, we have deer (not so welcome, but I even gave up spraying roses against them - they don't eat much), raccoons, possums, 2 kinds of squirrels, the occasional skunk, over 75 different bird species I have identified actually in our yard (including hawks), LOTS of butterflies, lots of different kinds of bees (including honeybees), ladybugs, soldier beetles (which I was happy to find out eat aphids!), etc, etc.

Going out in the garden this morning, I saw 6 butterflies and 3 humming birds - all in just a few moments. Brings me joy.

One kind of bad bug I don't think you guys have is the curlieque beetle (sp?) - little devils are the same size, color, and shape as ladybugs, but they have a long pointy snout, which they use to put their eggs into small rose buds, which then die without blooming. I used to spray for them, but now I just pick off the dead buds when I see them (and squash the beetles) and put them in the garbage, so that the eggs won't hatch. Luckily, the buds have to be fairly small for the bugs to be able to abuse them this way, so most of the roses don't have this problem.

Anyway, now I feel luckier than I did before I started reading this thread - I have all of the advantages of not spraying, with not many of the possible disadvantages - thanks so much for helping me realize how lucky I am!

Jackie

all in just a few moments. Brings me joy.

Those things do me, too, and I felt so upbeat about finally getting some flowers that are attracting a few things I hadn't seen since my childhood. I even put things out for the coons in winter, think they're cute, but not in summer, got a photo of a baby possum eating kitchen scraps I'd set out, wasn't hurting anybody. I love deer, and thank heaven so far they stop just short of my block to my awareness even though they are over in the park and saw a small one down in the next block a couple years ago, thought it was a dog at first.

I've got to get off the pity pot about it. Most people around here just aren't bothered too much about the JB's. In my neighborhood, everyone's lawn is perfect, and you know that means chemicals. It's a way of life. I gave in this year, but will only treat the lawn for sufficient reason, can live with a little imperfection. I'm the kind of person who can overlook a lot, and I mean a lot, but something about those beetles makes me feel like things are out of control, and I hate that feeling.

Right now I'm pretending they aren't out there. But in awhile will be back out there with my soapy water. At least they aren't so tiny you can't physically pick them off even if you know you're missing who knows how many? Sitting high up eating my birch leaves laughing at me :-)

Yes, Jackie, you folks on the West Coast have it easy, or so we on the East think. Every garden has its challenges.

Aliska, I'm a grandmother,too. And you are right, the only neighborhood in this area I have seen without JBs is one in which there is a Chem Lawn service poster in every yard. They have arrived here, but so far it isn't too bad.

Thank you both for posting.
Barbara