I think there are more important things than the green brown ratio or layering, bin or no bin (though I think a pallet bin is essential in composting).

>>> agreed about the ratios. Pallet bins are not essential but I do have 2 of them.

Mass and moisture are the key.

>>>I couldn't disagree with that.

There is no such thing as odorless compost.

>>>As long as it doesn't STINK the local area I'm happy.

Tumblers are a gimmick.(buying ANYTHING to help compost is just plain wrong)

>>>Never used a tumbler.

Taking temps on a small scale is a gimmick.(even on a large scale it's not all THAT important)

>>> Temps are a good thing to know :-)

Buying worms is a ripoff.

>>> Total agreement unless you've done everything right and still have no worms.

Thinking too hard about it is a bad thing.

>>> It'll come to you in the morning :-)

Compost dogma is a bad thing.

>>>>> How so?

Fast compost is just silly, although "quick" compost has its merits

>>>> hmmm, Fast may be right in some situations.

Pallets are ugly, but making compost isn't pretty (when it is pretty, it costs money, wastes time, takes more effort than its worth and falls into my dogma category)

>>>> Pallets are beautiful :-)

you can compost in a trash can (just make sure it's an old used trash can. otherwise you've spent money to compost.

>>>> never tried it,

if it was once living it can (and should) be composted.
it all leads back to compost

>>>> Agreed to a point. I tend to stay away things that have been through a factory.

gjcore

Compost dogma's bad
but compost haikus are good.
Make compost not trash.

Buying worms is a ripoff.

>>> Total agreement unless you've done everything right and still have no worms.

I have some sort of worms but they look like grayish white grub-type things. Is that bad or good???

Grubs - bad.

I pop their little heads off and compost the nasty things.

Oh, now, Professor, there's nothing wrong with a little dogma.

Otherwise, I bow to our beloved Professor D.

All this anti-dogmaticism is a little dogmatic, don't you think? :-]

Pretty good list.

Exception to the buying worms rule: vermicomposting food waste requires (as I understand it) a particular red wiggler. Even then if you can find a fellow composter with a worm bin, you can get em free... In the garden, I agree, and it's a widespread myth that you have to add worms to a compost pile.

>>> Total agreement unless you've done everything right and still have no worms.

I have NEVER seen a worm in my compost bins. But they make nice compost.

Indeed. They should be seen the GARDEN but not necessarily in the compost.

I don't agree about the tumbler. In my zone, I challenge anyone on this forum to keep a traditional (not garage sized) compost pile going to get useable compost yearly, much less twice a year. A high of 50 degrees tomorrow - this is the middle of July. For the average gardener with limited space and limited materials, a tumbler in the sun is a good way to get small amounts of compost, IF they diligently turn it and make sure it doesn't get too wet or anaerobic.

Trust me, this is a godawful climate to garden or compost in. The only upside is - less bugs.

+1 for the tumbler. They flat out work. Cheap or free would be good but since I'm a Patriot, I guess I will have to obtain and maintain my own.

Just in case,... Are there any lefties out there that would like to help me pay to rebuild my compost tumbler? It will save the planet from that nasty evil CO2. Oh, Wait, composting actually puts more CO2 into the air and faster. Oh Lord, how can we spin this to the slowly awakening American public (idiots)?

Here we are again. If a thing works for us, we will do it. If it doesn't, we won't. and leave us alone if the things we do works for us and and WE LIKE doing it that way.

I can't tell if this was meant to be a humour thread or a serious thread.

I must be getting old. ;-)

Lloyd

The presence or absence of worms is not necessarily and indicator of soil quality.

and yes Lloyd you are old. (and so is earthyworthy, you can tell by his grumpy, don't tell me what to do attitude). ;-)

"and yes Lloyd you are old."

I guess I'd better head up to the Legion, I'm still a youngster there!

:-)

Lloyd

captturbo
I think 'they' got rid of Hot Topics, as people seemed to disagree and get cross.
Please, let's avoid that.

Just in case,... Are there any lefties out there that would like to help me pay to rebuild my compost tumbler? It will save the planet from that nasty evil CO2. Oh, Wait, composting actually puts more CO2 into the air and faster. Oh Lord, how can we spin this to the slowly awakening American public (idiots)?

Remember kids, this is how you win people over to your way of thinking. Burst into pleasant conversations with an incoherent string of insults and loosely defined accusations. Strike first. Strike hard. And when you're done, call everyone idiots. You'll be surrounded by friends and supporters in no time. Or you may end up bitter and alone, spending your nights drunk on the couch in your American flag jump suit, complaining about your lack of popularity to a mannequin you stole from Dillard's. Either way, it's a win-win.

So I take it "lefties" aren't left handed people? I was wondering why a left handed person was needed to repair a tumbler. ;-)

Lloyd

I was wondering why a left handed person was needed to repair a tumbler.
I think in some circles, left handed people are thought to possess magical powers. They have their own scissors that only they can use. It confuses and frightens some folks.

>I can't tell if this was meant to be a humour thread or a serious thread.

Lloyd, it started out as one, then became the other.

gargwarb, you cracked me up with the Dillards mannequin! I think we're back to 'humourous thread' territory. Bravo!

ok I'll take the bait, joepyeweed. Plants don't need worms to grow but I know that when the worms come around the roots of all those plants, they do the happy-dance and positively thrive. I'm sure it was on a PBS special or some lefty show. and I admit to getting grumpy when I've been keeping the family and city neighbors happy with my wonderful, righteous tumbler(vermin and fly free) spinning out tons of pure gold compost year after year. and along comes somebody telling me its a waste of money. I will back off and let the lists go on and on.

I swear, I was thinking, "are there left handed tumblers?" until Lloyd's post :P I'm getting old, too. I didn't even see the post a couple before as offensive until I got to "idiots" and STILL didn't quite understand what was going on.

Sometimes oblivion is a gift :P

I dunno who is from where, but to all our Canadian friends, Americans love you. It was like Detroit ... but clean. ;)

-v

Tumblers are a waste of money to some, obviously a cool thing worth their price to others. As mama always said, "To each his own, said Charles as he kissed the cow."

When I pull up garlic and leeks, there is almost always a worm intertwined symbiotically in the roots. I mean like I'm not out there with a clip board or something keeping score, wearing a lab coat and all that, with an assistant who wears big black glasses, high heels, and a bun who is actually gorgeous if I would ever stop thinking about science. But its now a routine - pull the allium, carefully separate out the worm, put the allium in the cart and put the worm back in the dirt. Its a bit of a drudge, day in day out thing, but I'm sure the worms appreciate it.

I used to do the tumbler thing. I used a plastic oil drum and would put it at the top of the driveway, and when I drove in the gate, I'd knock it over, and it would roll down the hill. Then I'd park the car and roll it back up the hill, just like Sisyphus, and my kids would clap.

And then I too just found it easier to pile up the compost somewhere and leave it rot.

Tumblers standing idle now , just use Cages...dont you just hate those "tumblerballs"
Now I was thinking "will them balls unroll themselves if I turned it the other way ... to the left?" hehe

Hardly ever have Greens to put in mostly just dry Leaves Heats up hot every time, just check the moisture.
Keep a little peice of tarp on top, this keeps out too much water(rain) but hepls to condense the rising vapor "steam" dripping back on pile, so the top stays nice 'n moist all the way to the top of the pile.
My secret ingredient is Molasses. A cup per pile.

Captturbo - I don't know that they are actually "grubs". Some on the Florida Gardening forum said they sound like Black Soldier Fly larvae. But, when the hubby went out there last night to dump some veggie scraps he said that you could actually "hear" them munching. Freaked us both out. There are too many for me to get out and "pop their heads off".......... That would only add vomit to the mix....

Is my compost ruined before its even finished???

Thoughts???

If you can hear them munching, its definitely Black Soldier Fly larvae.

Your compost is not ruined. The black soldier fly larvae will quickly process your veggie matter into grub poo, which a good thing. Then they will become adults and fly away and you won't see them anymore. You may even miss them when they are gone.

If they are big fat white grubs, leave them. They are a good thing in your compost but not in your yard.

Thanks Joepyweed & wvbetsy that is good to know. I need to find some more browns as we don't have many trees here to get leaves from. All I ever have as "browns" seems to be shredded newspaper and cardboard.

I know this is all a learning process and I appreciate being able to come here to find answers!!

I shred junk mail for browns, I always seem to have plenty of junk mail.

"The presence or absence of worms is not necessarily and indicator of soil quality."
I couldn't disagree more, (well, I could disagree more but being limited in space, time and will to fight an "argument clinic" type fight, I'll just "left" it alone)
What is "soil quality"? is it the soils ability to support and sustain life? to grow plants of all sorts without having to add the "right" chemicals (store bought chemicals) or is it the ability to make mud pies and adobe huts?
If there are worms in my soil, I know they won't be composting worms. but they will be the type that live in healthy soil along with ALL the other micro and macro organisms that mostly help each other in the symbiotic symphony that is life.
As to tumblers, if you have one and it makes your composting efforts easier, good on ya mate, but I think there are easier, cheaper (as in free)more productive ways
to compost. Now I don't want this to sound like I know it all (cuz I really really don't) or my way is the end all be all, but I am just trying to help people to compost in a way that is sustaining and not just a passing whim/fad/I useta
I have composted in every way possible EXCEPT using a tumbler, but I have seen other people tumble, I have read all the reviews on tumblers good and bad and I still think they are a gimicky motivating device, like going to a gym or signing up for some sort of class/course that could be done on your own but the need to "keep it going" is the need to sign up. so if you like your tumbler, who am I to say stop liking it? I am nobody. but as I slip my hand into yours and we walk this path of composting life together, I am just trying to walk with you, pointing out the sticks and stones that can hurt, I am not trying to pull you this way or that.
IALBTC

Here is a link that might be useful: Growing soul

"The presence or absence of worms is not necessarily and indicator of soil quality."
I couldn't disagree more,

Are you saying that you're prepared to make the statement: "Every soil with worms, without exception, is a good quality soil and no soil without worms could possibly be a good quality soil."?

If you can't say that with a straight face then you do, in fact, agree with the statement that "The presence or absence of worms is not necessarily and indicator of soil quality." If you can say it with a straight face...well...you're wrong.

If that soil in that geographical area doesn't have ANY worms and shouldn't have any worms because of naturally occurring conditions, then fine, it could be good soil without them,(and good for what?) but I find it hard to believe that there is soil that supports other insect life and plant life devoid of ANY type worms anywhere.
And when I say worms, I mean just that, worms, not worm I.E. Eisenia foetida, there are many types of worms on this earth and as long as there is one type of life, there is almost always another.
I have found that when a GARDEN is devoid of worms there is a reason. On the compost farm, I searched for weeks for Eisenia foetida and found none, I did find worms in the soil near by,(about 1/4 mile away) but not many. on the farm the soil was tilled and and compacted and all manner of farm chemicals were used for decades before I got there and I am sure this had a effect on all the life that would/could occupy that area.
I would also say that if an area is completely devoid of ants or spiders or beetles/grubs or mice or rats or whateva that would naturally occur and if it is devoid of those creatures because of something happening, usually humans can be connected to the absence.
AND I am not saying that Eisenia foetida are pure good creature that do no harm, imho they are just another example of an invasive species just trying to live and prosper like good ole Darwin sez.
Just my two cents plus a nickle.
IALBTC

Here is a link that might be useful: A Note on Invasive Worm Species

Oh gosh snog, molasses? I'm a lurker - well, not any more I guess- but wouldn't molasses attract nasties? In my climate (no rain, very high heat, dry as a bone, hardpan ground or mud depending on season) my measly pile is not much, and I'd love to make it happier. But we have critters (rats, some snakes, flies and mosquitos galore) and I wonder, do the advantages of molasses have any downsides in an open, hole-in-the-ground pile?
Thanks, Batya

Aren't we violating secret #7?

;-)

Lloyd

If that soil in that geographical area doesn't have ANY worms and shouldn't have any worms because of naturally occurring conditions, then fine, it could be good soil without them

Ooooohh, I see now. So when you said, "I couldn't disagree more", what you were trying to say is that you "agree with the statement in its entirety." Thanks for clearing it up.

Aren't we violating secret #7?
Over the last couple of years I always walked right on by and let the whacky "no worms = bad soil" thing lie there like a lump when it pops up. But yes, in light of secret #7 and the worm thing coming from the same source in the same thread, I couldn't help myself.

nope
ialbtc

"Aren't we violating secret #7?

;-)

Lloyd"

And #8.

But think back. When don't we? I don't mean you and I individually. I mean as a forum. Even individually, though. I think I once told somebody that coffee grounds are a green and filters are a brown.

..
I'll hang with Professor dirt and add:

- What works best is what works for you.

- Don't work too hard for compost, make it work for you.

- Use what's on hand.

to sense
..

That's why I originally wondered if this was intended to be a humour thread. I'm in violation of so many of those secrets, especially #7, yet seem to be composting quite happily.

Go figure.

Lloyd

P.S. Prof. Dirt, they are calling for you over at the froup.

"Buying worms is a ripoff.

>>> Total agreement unless you've done everything right and still have no worms.

I have some sort of worms but they look like grayish white grub-type things. Is that bad or good???"

They might be soldier flies, those are good. I got lots of those last year. They look like giant maggots until the turn into a black wasp looking bug.

Is dogma a green or a brown? And what's the proper ratio in which to use it?