ROFL :D

wendyb, what a stupid response. you shock me.with all the years i've admired and been thankful for your GW contributions, I now get that you just can't own up to responsibility for transgression. You just want to throw it all back on me, make it all 'my fault';my 'bad day'.What happened to 1)respecting the OP and 2)recognizing the need for starting new threads when appropriate so people can find and converse with you on that topic ?
mindy

Well, Mindy, first of all, I was the person who suggested that perhaps you were having a 'bad day'. So, if Wendy is stupid, then I guess I must be too. I guess it went over your head, that you were being offered an opportunity to take a second look at what you had to say and whether you wanted to reconsider.

If anyone is not owning up to responsibility, I think you ought to take a closer look at yourself. There was no 'transgression' for Wendy or anyone else to take responsibility for. You are way off base. And as for respect, it is earned.

Why won't any one acknowledge it was me/I who got off topic? I already admitted it. What does someone have to do to get recognition around here?!

ha, marie! you are so funny! thanks much for that previous post. you definitely grokked the issues.
thanks,
mindy

Wow, I don't post a lot around here in the GW forums but felt I must drop in here. It's a PUBLIC FORUM and like many have suggested, topics begin to take lives of there own and twists and turns are part of the fun. Get over yourself OP, you sure don't make this a welcome place at all!!

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I usually don't do this; if a thread bothers me, I usually just ignore it, don't read it, and move on. But Perennials is one of my top three forums and I'd hate to see things get ugly, and I'd hate to see ill-will between posters, so I'm going to risk being told to shut up, and I'm going to add this post.

Can we just accept that we all have different views and opinions of what the GW forums are or should be, and different ideas of how they are used? Can we respect those differing views even if we don't agree with them, just as we'd like others to respect our views? Can we respect Mindy's preference on her threads to try to stay on topic? I talk an awful lot, (as most of you can probably tell from my often-long posts!) and sometimes it's hard to stop, lol, to keep from throwing in a story, or to refrain from saying things, but I think I can restrain myself on a few threads, i.e, Mindy's threads, if that will help keep the peace.

Mindy, can you accept that not everyone shares your view of how the forums should be used? Can you agree that none of us can control human nature, and therefore none of us can control the flow of threads? Can you compromise on the on-topic thing as long as we try to stay on-topic on your threads?

Can we all refrain from name-calling, accusations, snide remarks, making jokes at the expense of other posters, and just use the manners and maturity I know many of us have?

And can you all not laugh at me for posting this reply? :)

Seriously, I love coming to GW and this forum in particular for the conversation, the level of gardening knowledge, and the education and comraderie it provides. I'd hate to see that ruined.

Just some food for thought. Thank you.

Dee

wow - a bit uncomfortable here...

Dee - agree with your post

Carrie

A bit uncomfortable, yes -- but that's life.

Let's move on and talk about perennials.

take a prozac, and go look at all your beautiful flowers. If that's all you have to worry about you have a boring life. We all probably need to lighten up a bit. Be happy!

thinman- you crack me up. I get you.
FWIW, I usually put a disclaimer on the front of my posts if I'm going to hijack a post temporarily. So if you see the phrase "duck for hijack," that would be my courteous way of saying "I'm going OT for a sec," and I will usually follow it up with "...and now back to your regularly scheduled programming."

Does this suffice for the forum, or should I just not join a conversation at all if I have nothing of substance to contribute to a thread?

~mmqc, who doesn't take life so seriously that my panties get in a bunch over "virtual" life

AMEN, Dee and cool plants guy!

This is why a lot of the knowledgeable people who have posted on these forums eventually get bored, give up, and stop posting. Everyone is tired of reading posts that degenerate into name calling and spitting matches. Lighten up, everyone, and get back to why were here in the first place: to live and let live, enjoy gardening, and offer some friendly advice or learn something along the way.

Enough said!

I lurk daily but very rarely respond or ask questions in this forum as I'm not a part of the click, but I just feel as though I must respond to parts of these posts.

First, I'm incensed that someone was called out as having given a stupid response. For me, stupid is about the most ugly word in the English language. It's simply rude, ignorant and arrogant to call anyone, in any capacity, stupid.

Second, Mindy, your OP was about slugs, yet you didn't even spell the word out which leads one to automatically, before even having opened the post, to assume it was for humorous purposes. Therefore, logic would follow that you would most likely receive humorous/OT responses which you got upset about.

Third, (yes, I can nit-pick with the best of 'em) you posted about slugs. This forum is for discussion of perennials. As in plants: "Perennials Forum
This forum is provided for the discussion of perennials--how to grow them, recommendations for selections, sources for plants, etc."

Related forums: Lilies : Daylilies : Hostas : Violets : Irises : Bulbs : Dahlias
Hellebores : Vines : Clematis : Salvia : Geraniums : Peonies : Aroids

Where does it say pests anywhere?
Nowhere, and slugs attack all varieties of plants, not just perennials. Therefore, your OP was totally OT to this forum to begin with and should have been posted in the The Garden Clinic, Plant Pests & Diseases forum.

So, now that I've gotten that off my chest (and I apologize right this instant for possibly having offended anyone) I think this is one of the most friendly, positive, knowledgeable forums on GW. It contains the largest wealth of information about perennials anywhere on the net. The posters here are fantastic for sharing their information, help, experiences and humor to anyone that asks for it - newbs and professionals alike.

Yes, some posts slide OT, but so what? Most OPers figure out a way to gently slide the responders and side banter back to the original topic without being rude about it. I've learned quite a few tid-bits from a lot of those OT discussions, and would like to keep doing so. I get at least one laugh a day from an OT discussion somewhere on GW. And thank goodness, for there are many, many days that I really need that chuckle.

So, lighten up and go with the flow. It'll make for a much more stress free learning/growing experience. And you just might learn something new or get an unexpected smile to boot.

Happy growing!

While I understand trying to compromise to keep peace, I'm seeing several things wrong here.

First, the original post was fine, what began to take it down was Mindy's rude little rant. For someone who broke several parts of the first 3 postings instructions herself, one might feel rules apply to 'everyone but me' attitude going on here.

Perennials Forum is not best choice for strict slug discussion, using unsearchable s--g, posting topic, and another in caps and SHOUTING. Not to mention it clearly states in instructions that off topic is at the owner's discretion for deleting. Did you report your thread for possible abuse before starting this one?

If posters wish to compromise as to not 'offend' Mindy and her 'serious' learning abilities, then that's fine, but Mindy will then need to post as a disclaimer immediately in her opening sentence inside any of her new threads that she will not tolerate hee-hee, slightly off topic blah blah blah. Otherwise how in the world would any new comer know of the little agreement to treat Mindy special?

Geez, Mindy, your rant was out of line and your second posting to make it a main thread was even more so. If you have a problem with these boards, take it to management. If you have a problem with posting on boards that do not regulate what may be shared/posted within an inch of it's life, join a private lock-able forum someplace.

Yeah, I agree, this thread needs to end, but Mindy if you think you didn't start the ball rolling in the unpositive direction, you are wrong. This is not Mindy's Personal Gardening Experiences Forum nor is Mindy the board monitor and one should assume Mindy can read instructions as well as she can expect everyone else to read and follow them.

This entire thread needs to be deleted.

I didn't think it was out of line for anyone to challenge Mindy's characterization of what happened on the thread and it's not unexpected that the degree of intensity and the tone of her thread got under other people's skin and drew fire. I thought many people responded with restraint and politeness.

Any jokes I made were not meant to be at anyone's expense, but to try to lighten the mood and nudge Mindy, to take a different approach. Which I was trying to gently do with humor. drivebytrucker attempted to make a joke to change the subject and end the argument.

To try to narrow and attempt to limit the discussion so that even poor Dee who is such a friendly soul is now thinking of 'refraining from saying things' is a real shame. Mindy, you didn't just request on topic discussion but you criticized what you considered, 'idle chat, laughing and posting of photos'. Which from reading the entire snail thread, I consider a misrepresentation of what really happened. And now mmqchdygg is wondering if he should also think twice about contributing to a thread.

Yes, we want to enjoy garden talk and not get bogged down with disagreements, but I agree with justmetoo and sewobsessed, I don't think this is a situation where compromising to keep the peace is the answer.

Mindy, you chose to make this a big issue in an unfriendly and condescending manner over what only you perceived as a slight infraction. Labeling it a 'transgression' like someone committed a sin. So take responsibility for your own attitude and words.

LOL, this thread is like an episode of General Hospital.
By the way, the all-star game was great, go Phillies!

This thread ends, for me, right here, cause I'd rather talk about my plant problems and victories (few that they may be, LOL), with my final observations:

Justmetoo summed up this situation perfectly - well said!
And if i was a slug, I'd be scared to go near Mindy's yard!

Now I'm off to see what new problems I have out there (and to stay OT, no slugs yet).

what a great bunch of GW'ers we have. This topic and all the sane responses shows what I like about GW so much. And I particularly appreciate the validation that my contributions (and others') were not offsenive and that the OP's original and subsequent reactions were a bit much.

Being an original participant, I don't want to stir up too much but I do want to comment on a couple of things...

Re Thread ownership:

There has been mention of "Mindy's thread" here and there, but its not anyone's thread but GW's. Just cause someone starts a thread, its not theirs. It belongs to the GW community. If several people are involved in a conversation at the water cooler, is anyone in charge of how it evolves????

Re OT:

I don't know about you, but I for one have so often bypassed reading a thread because the subject didn't interest me. But then I might notice that the reply count was getting high so I would take a peek. Typically the conversation veered off course and it was covering something of interest which might have been missed otherwise. So, like someone said, its a conversation, it flows, and there are many ways to stay involved. Observing reply counts and dates are just two of many ways to notice the flow. If someone stopped a verbal exchange dead in its tracks and said "wait, let's reconvene down the hall in a few minutes", no one might come.

So I say a little OT can be a good thing.

If the group at the water cooler keeps growing in size, they are no longer talking about the All-star game!

Moderation:

where's spike when you need him? :-)

Blame, labeling, validation by means of 'strength in numbers', recommending the need for prescription medication, etc., etc.

Respect is a matter of common courtesy, I do not agree that someone has to EARN the right to common courtesy, especially on public forums where as a user you agree to respect the views of others, and I'm pretty sure that's somewhere in the agreement with GW.

While everyone doesn't have to agree, respecting the views of others without resorting to labeling, accusations and name calling is what one would expect out of an adult conversation.

While Mindy seemed agitated, she also said "sorry", she was polite, she said "please" (which I read as a genuine plea), she gave proper direction to chatter forums, she explained herself and where she was coming from and why it would be beneficial to start another thread for off topic issues.

I don't read her post as condescending, at the very least it is direct. Mindy doesn't sugar coat, and that's her way of communicating. Perhaps adding a coat of sugar or two would have made it sweeter for everyone.

I wasn't involved personally in the prior post that went off topic.

Which brings me to the main point;

It's NOT personal people.

Kim, I do appreciate your attempt to deflect any disrespect sent Mindy's way. I do at this point feel like too much has been said, me included and I feel uncomfortable about it. I cringe at some of the things that have been said and if it were me, I would be pretty hurt. I also agree with you that basic respect and courtesy should not have to be earned. When I went back and reread it, it didn't sit right with me. I've always believed that you should show respect to everyone even when they are not showing respect to you and I try to do that. I thought I was disagreeing with her respectfully.

You don't see it as personal. I felt it was. I wonder if you did go back and read the thread that is being discussed. You didn't hear condescending and I did and do. Using the word condescending described how what she had to say, made me feel. It was not meant as a label. You point out Mindy's polite please and sorry, but you overlook much.

According to your view, Mindy did everything right, is what I am hearing. Which I'm sure is just the way Mindy is seeing it. And that's part of the problem for me. You seem to want to give her a pass, based on 'direct....that's her way of communicating'. If you want others here to do better, then I see no reason to leave Mindy out of that suggestion. I accept what you have to say about the fact that some things were said that were disrespectful and I'm sorry that they were said and did not have any wish to see Mindy hurt. What I find missing in your post is the understanding for the other side of it. I think it would have been more helpful if you were more even handed.

Your main point was that it's not personal, and I can see that since it wasn't personal to you, you are viewing it differently.

This is my last post on the subject. It would be nice if everyone admitted they weren't perfect in this, including Mindy and we all just apologized and moved on. I'm sure we can all find something to learn from all this. That would be adult. I'll start....I am sorry for crossing over the line with my comments and for not being more patient and understanding. I had advised myself to wait until the next morning to respond to this post but I didn't take my own good advice, and I wish I had. :-) Next time I'll try harder. :-)

prairiemoon2

Don't have much to add that hasn't already been expressed quite articulately and thoroughly at this point. Personally I think Mindy over-reacted and that some congenial "meandering" through the subject matter, off-topic discussion, even off-topic topics, on GW threads is quite normal, and often entertaining. You never know how a post might offer insight or even a much-needed smile for a reader out there.

I respect Mindy's preference to stay on point and engage in "serious discussion only" on her threads. But wonder if that preference, especially as expressed, might intimidate or discourage posters from participating on said threads.

I am not in the clique here either. I mostly lurk these days here on GW. If I can't laugh on the way and maybe learn something new at the same time forget it. I have been at death's door.

This was about slugs......how serious do you want? I mean really!!

I think it's time for a group hug!

By the way, how come you had to refer to slugs as s--g? I almost didn't read that thread because of that, and would have missed some good information.

Deanna

This is really so funny. I love reading the forums here and this kept me amused for quite a while! Drivebytrucker, you made me laugh out loud!!! Keep up the good work everyone. If I were Mindy, I think I'd change my name.

I swore off this thread earlier and stopped by just to see if the conversation was still going on, and darn if I can't help myself from posting again.

It seems that someone, cough**Mindy**cough, really touched a nerve with her claims of "transgressors" and their ilk, (which made me spit coffee all over my computer). But all the posts that followed had such a great feeling of camaraderie that maybe she actually caused something good. I see this forum more as conversation among friends of mine, even though not physically present, and from this I feel like I've gotten to know you guys better. So, thanks, Mindy!

Sorry I am going to have to go off Topic here but, really, aren't grammar and spelling errors (GASE) so much more serious than off topic posts? I mean, off topic occurs how frequently? What, maybe 5 or 10% of the posts? Whereas grammar and spelling errors (GASE)(Oh yeah I said that) are virtually in every post. So let's call a spade a spade and not a fork and leave it at that, OK? Cuz if you call a spade a fork, you're about 3 tines short of being fully pronged. That's my esteemed prongnosis anyway. Sheesh.

Someone's either PMS'ing or takes herself WAY too seriously.

Oh! Look! All these replies are sent to her email address!

I am wondering who the forum "moderator" is....and unless you own this forum and pay the fees ( and reap the rewards) how come you think you can make rules?
If one forum and it's posters annoy you, why there are thousands more on the internet.
Wandering threads are one of the joys of an exchange of information.
Linda c

I'm more of a luker (I was looking for information on Sweet William) but saw this post and all the activity and wondered what it was about. I'm glad I did as I then went to find out about the slug post as I've been having a terrible, terrible season with slugs because of tons of rain in May, June and July.

I enjoyed the original slug post and the responses as they were informative. I'd never thought to use ammonia as I was "baiting" the slugs with the beer filled pie pans.

Had someone not gone "OT" I wouldn't have learned the the ammonia could also potentially change the color of my hydrangeas.

"OT" to me means that the new subject matter is completely unrelated. For example, going from slugs/ammonia to Michael Jackson's untimely passing.

The discussion was still prevalent in my eyes as the OP mentioned ammonia and its effect on slugs and someone else asked about the effects of the ammonia on the plants, in the garden, and how it affects the earthworms.

Thank you Mindy for your original post but thank you too to the others who went "OT" as I hadn't thought about the effects of using the ammonia in and around my plants with respect to them or the other wildlife in my garden.

Future posters: don't snipe. no sexism, either.

Group hug!

stop touching me.

mmqchdygg - that's a good one!

Question Mindy - Are you checking the box each time where it says "Check here if you would like copies of follow-ups to your message emailed to you" or are they being sent to you automatically? I have to check the box - which I never do because I don't want the replies sent to my email account. It's bad enough to have to sort through all the spam and delete that. I wonder if there is a default setting that you need to change. Either way - I think it would be much less frustrating for you if the replies weren't building up in your email account and you only read the replies here on Gardenweb.
If you have trouble finding one of your threads, it's easy to do a search by your name either in the bottom search box or through google.
Hope that helps.
I would agree that going off topic should be kept to a minimum, but it shouldn't be disallowed.

This thread soooo reminds me of the family Thanksgiving get-togethers. Once I finish with the two months of therapy required afterwards, I have a lot of great memories!

You know, EVERY forum I have ever frequented has a flare up like this at least once every few months. Somebody gets ticked for whatever reason, and attempts to set everyone else straight. Of course the majority of readers don't want to be "set straight", and respond with their personal opinions. I actually think it is healthy. Everybody gets to vent, and nothing really changes. We are on the INTERNET people, and millions of Folks can come to this forum- millions of people with different styles, habits and levels of gardening interest and education. I think it would be rather boring if nobody ever wandered off topic. Kathy

diggerdee, you're one of the nicest and most fun people I've met on GW. Sometimes I wish my threads would really take off, go OT, whatever. I love the spontaneous flow of conversation and some of us, our minds work by association and what it means in our lives. I'm lucky if I get two or 3 responses to most of the threads I start, depends on the forum and how long I've posted on it.

I'd go by intent. If a poster deliberately intends to disrupt or hijack a thread, that would be annoying as is petty bickering. But if a poster drifts OT because it triggered something that means something important to them or goes lighthearted, I really enjoy being a part of it.

I really did hijack a thread on another forum because it triggered old memories of the town in which the poster lived. He was most gracious about it, offered to take a photo for me, and through that interchange, I found photos on the web of two houses I'd lived in and had pregnancies or first homes for my children which meant a lot to me (and my three adult children) all these years later.

All I can say, rhizo, is ROFL!

Idabean...until I read this thread I didn't get the "grok" thread. LOL

I can be slow on the uptake and ramble like a case study in "stream of consciousness" to say nothing of having atrocious grammar.

Don't have anyone around me who wants to hear about "that stuff" and I'm curious as all get out about almost any plant whether or not I can grow it.

There's beauty in almost every plant/bloom I see.

I'm eternally grateful to posters who share photos of their gardens and plants.

I'm a flawed human being who comes here to read what other people experience in their gardens and all that goes with along with it.

Lighthearted back and forth is a big bonus among the serious information.

I'm too tired from pruning all day to grab the flashlight and ammonia spritzer to hunt down slugs tonight!

Let them eat Zinnia.

Gardening is either a hobby or a job.

People who view it as a hobby post here.
People who garden as a living and don't want to put up with banter, post in the professional forum or in websites that are solely devoted to professional gardeners.

The majority of people who post on GW find gardening to be an enjoyable hobby, to relieve stress from the trials of the real world. Therefore, it makes sense that people don't post on GW as if they're filling out a form.

If some one wants to stray from the point in one of my threads, it doesn't kill me to have them do it. I've learned many things that way that I didn't even think to ask about. And if it starts to stray before my topic was even addressed, I'll bring it back up in the same thread with something like, "But back to the original topic here..." It's not that difficult or that big a deal.

If gardening is so serious to you that you can't stand to even have to go through the process of scrolling past and ignoring the off topic chatter, or glance at the reply in your email before deciding to go to the site, maybe you should take horticultural courses at a local college, take the Master Gardener certification program or something that takes gardening to a different level.

This thread has been hilarious!!!!!!!!!! Mindy,,,you have really opened a "can of worms" .........or is it s..gs?

I think her tail is between her legs at this point.

Mindy also brings to mind some residents of the old Southern antebellum city I lived in for many years. Along the waterfront, were (and still are) some stately mansions that date back to Revolutionary - Civil War days. Also standing sentinel along the water front were (are) extremely old and magnificant Live Oaks, their big brawny arms draped with Spanish Moss. (See link below.)

One of the residents of these homes was descended from the original owners, quite a legacy. But they inherited a sense of ownership that included the trees, which did not belong to them whatsoever, and of the VIEW from their home. They fought for years to have the oaks removed from the waterfront, and we refused them for years. I still remember one of their letters demanding that THEIR view be restored. Their view.

Once any of us posts on the GardenWeb, we cannot claim ownership of that thread, nor dictate who responds nor what they say. This thread, Mindy, belongs to us.

Personally, I thank you for it, because it has clearly become a very nice family reunion.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:251432}}

It bothers me people are talking about the OP in the third person as if she's not really here at all. It was ok when people were talking "to" her in agreement, disagreement and somewhere inbetween. If you were face to face would you use drivebytrucker's phrase? And we don't know if someone reads if they don't post a response. If OP isn't posting, and all almost everyone in on the original post has stopped posting why are folks who often lurk coming in with last minute (mean) remarks?

I was done here awhile ago, but I find it difficult not to respond to overt hostility when the quarrel is clearly over.

Now I'm really finished. I hope this thread dies now and is never resurrected again.

Without intending to resurrect a negative thread, for clarification, I'd like to comment on this as I just returned from vacation.

My point wasn't to determine fault, but to recognize, as an onlooker who admittedly wasn't involved in the original thread, that I didn't read malicious intent in the original post.

I didn't overlook the tone of it, or the directness, or what some people might view as harsh. I saw it as a post by someone obviously agitated, emotional, and outspoken regarding her viewpoint. That still doesn't make it malicious.

That's not to downplay the emotions of those personally involved, I'm sure it is close to heart, but perhaps it would be beneficial to put emotions aside rather than add fuel to the fire.

There is nothing that justifies hostile and demeaning responses, and itÂs quite obvious that some responses serve no other purpose than to antagonize an already agitated person, and some of those responses go far beyond anything Mindy communicated in her original post, and the continual cackling is not only juvenile, but I have a difficul time believing that some of you are adults.

By all means, disagree, but ostracizing another member because you disagree with his or her viewpoint is repugnant.

Just like plants, it looks like everybody's 'true colors' are beginning to show hehehe.

Gardenweb is turning into Melrose Place LOL!!

Enough!

Sigh.......
This is one of my favorite forum on the GW, although I have not posted for a while. This is just about the ugliest thread I have read anywhere. The majority of the posts were made with care, precision and such maturity. I truly appreciate that. But Mindy's reactions and responses and those of a couple people made me very sad.

Can we PLEASE bury this stupid thread. Whoever started it should be banned!

Amen. It dropped to page 3. Don't take me wrong, please please please, but this entire thread was a destructive experience. If you have further comments, start a new post with your own original question or observation. Any further responses to this thread just keeps bumping it up, and it really should remain dead and buried.

Again, if you have further comments or observations, start a new thread so we can bottom
out this one.

idabean/mt