Are liquid fertilizer bad for worms and frogs

12 years ago

Despite my water efforts, some of my royal catchfly continues to get more and more yellow from the bottom up. I am thinking about trying a bit of fertilizer to see if it will change anything. Part of gardening is experimenting, right?

Frankly, I have avoided using any fertilizer at all, preferring to use brush compost, but have used liquid fertilizer in house plants. I was wondering, if something like Schultz plant food plus is harmful to worms and frogs, since I see both in my yard.

Paul

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (14)

gardenweed_z6a
12 years ago
What about using seaweed extract instead? That's what I use along with worm p**p. Seaweed extract helps foliar growth while fish emulsion aids root growth. Worm p**p is just plain gardener's gold. A fellow gardener at work has a worm farm and gave me a coffee can full last year. I use it sparingly. I make a tea from seaweed extract and worm p**p that I give my plants in containers through the season.
Donna
12 years ago
I once read in a gardening book that the salts in synthetic fertilizers can burn earthworms....

I have found that my plants love a stinky drink of fish emulsion better than any synthetic liquid I have ever used, including Miracle Gro and Schultz. I mix it in my watering can and just water. You'll see results in a couple of days. In my area, fish emulsion is far easier to find than seaweed.
Related Discussions
Homemade liquid fertilizer for containers
Q
Comments (23)
Sandy - If you combine equal measures by weight of the MG 23-19-17 and the 15-30-15, you would indeed end up with NPK %s of 19-25-16. If you have tomatoes, after they get a little growth, you could use the 15-30-15 in equal parts wityh 24-8-16 and be serving something they'll get along with fine. The 23-19-17 (what is this suggested for?) could probably be used for most things w/o much problem, though it too provides much more P than your plants will want or can use in relation to N (and other elements). Did you read the thread about fertilizing container plants, Sandy? I wrote the following about hi-P fertilizers so long ago I can't find it by a search. (If anyone has a link to it here on GW, would you please mail it to me so I can save the link?) Lets first look at the role of fertilizers in general. There are 6 factors that affect plant growth and yield; they are: air, water, light, temperature, soil or media, and nutrients. Liebig's Law of Limiting Factors states the most deficient factor limits plant growth and increasing the supply of non-limiting factors will not increase plant growth. Only by increasing most deficient factor will the plant growth increase. There is also an optimum combination of the factors and increasing them, individually or in various combinations, can lead to toxicity for the plant. From the above, we can say that when any nutritional element is deficient in the soil, plant growth slows. We have a term for this occurrence: environmental dormancy. When the deficient element is restored to adequacy levels the environmental constraint caused by the deficient element is eliminated and plant growth can resumes at a normal rate, as long as there are not additional limiting factors. Continuing to increase the element beyond the adequacy range offers no benefits and can deleteriously affect the plant - often in several ways, depending on the element. Somewhere along the way, we curiously began to look at fertilizers as miraculous assemblages of growth drugs, and started interpreting the restorative (of normal growth) effect of fertilizer as stimulation beyond what a normal growth rate would be if all nutrients were adequately present in soils. ItÂs no small wonder that we come away with the idea that there are Âmiracle concoctionsÂ out there and often end up placing more hope than is reasonable in them. In couplet with the hope for the Âmiracle tonicÂ is Âmore must be betterÂ. IÂll use that idea as the lead-in to my thoughts on high phosphorous fertilizer blends. Among container growers you often find common belief that high phosphorus (P) content fertilizers are a requirement for promotion of root growth and/or flowering. Fertilizer blends like 15-30-15, and even 10-52-10 are sold under names that imply that you actually NEED these formulas for plants to bloom well and to produce strong roots. Lets examine that idea in a little more depth. While anecdotal evidence abounds, there is very little scientific evidence to show any need for such products. IÂve mentioned in other posts that high-P fertilizers are a historical carry-over from when it was most common for plants to be started in outdoor soil beds, the soil in which was usually still quite cold at sowing time. Both the solubility of P and plantsÂ ability to take it up are reduced in cold soils, so it was reasoned that fertilizing with high levels of P insured that at least some would be available during periods of growth in chilled soils. We know that tissue analysis of leaves, roots, flowers - any of the live tissues of healthy plants will reveal that P is present in tissues at an average of 1/6 that of nitrogen (N) and about 1/4 that of potassium (K). Many plants even contain as much calcium (Ca) as P. If we know that we cannot expect P to be found in higher concentrations in the roots and blooms than we find in foliage, how can we justify the belief that massive doses of P are important to their formation? It is well known among experienced growers that withholding N when all other nutrients are available at adequate levels induces bloom production on smaller and younger plants. Even though plants USE nutrients at approximately a 3:.5:2 ratio (note that N is 6 times the level of P, and K is 4 times the level of P), most greenhouse operations purposely fertilize with something very near a 2:1:2 ratio to limit vegetative growth so they can sell a compact plant sporting pretty blooms to tempt you. Simply limiting N limits vegetative growth, but it does nothing to limit photosynthesis. The plant keeps making food, but it cannot use it to grow leaves and extend stems because of the lack of N. To where should we imagine the energy goes? It goes into producing blooms and fruit. What harm might there be in a little extra P in our soils? First consider that the popular 10-52-10 has almost 32 times more P than a huge percentage of plants could ever use. Even 1:1:1 fertilizer formulas like the popular 20-20-20 are already high P formulas because they have 6.25 times more P (in relation to N) than plants require to grow robustly and normally. Evidence of phosphate overfertilizing usually always includes some degree of leaf chlorosis. P competes with iron (Fe) and manganese (Mn) ions for attachment sites and causes antagonistic deficiencies of these micronutrients. Unfortunately, the deficiency of these elements causes interveinal chlorosis (yellowing), and the first thing we normally consider as a fix for yellow leaves is more fertilizer, so we give the plants a good dose of our favorite bloom-bomb which causes, no surprise - worsening of the condition. IÂll close with an anecdote of how I used to fertilize plants with showy blooms before I had a better understanding of the overall picture. I would fertilize with a "bloom-boosting" fertilizer as long as foliage was bright green. As foliage inevitably yellowed, I would then switch to a high N formula until the color returned & start the cycle over again. I THOUGHT that the P was helping with the blooms and the yellowing was caused by a lack of N, which I quickly jumped to correct at the first evidence of yellow. I now understand that the high levels of P were what were causing the yellowing and it wasnÂt my returning to a high N formula that greened the plant up again, it was the reduction in the level of P in the soil when I stopped using the high-P formulation. Al
...See More
Homemade liquid fertilizer
Q
Comments (24)
Yeiks! I was just looking around the GW to see about using dry molasses versus Unsulfered liquid and found this. I thought I would mention, that Kim posted that she is using egg shells, then adding vinegar to the egg shells. Vinegar should NOT be used as a plant food..it is used for weed killing and will kill your seedlings. As for liquid fertilizer, I usually use diluted fish emulsion for seedlings. (1/4th strength) In defense of Organic Guy, I make rabbit manure tea and have for years without ill effects. It is not as if, we are cleaning out the chicken coops, horse stalls, cow barns or rabbit hutches with our bare hands, then going in the house to make a sandwich and not wash up. The year my Aruacana hen, Daisy sat on the tomato cages I won Blue Ribbon for the heaviest tomatoes, 3lb each, and my weigh in total has not been broken at that fair for 5 years. Personally, I think there are more illnesses relating to improper home cannning method and improper hand washing than all of us who use manure tea. As far as getting sick, well I have had one prescription for antibiotics in the last decade. Went in 2 years ago for built up ear wax cleaning. My daughter, who is now 15 has had 3 or 4 ear infections her entire life, that's it and we are questioned if we have a check up to make sure someone didn't "miss" our prescription list, as we have none.
...See More
Seedlings - To fertilize or not to fertilize?
Q
Comments (22)
If you examine the ingredients list on a bag of Miracle Gro potting soil, I believe that you will find that it contains "locally" obtained ingredients. That implies that the quality will vary with manufacturing location. I have had bad results using Miracle Gro potting soil bought in the Chicago area. Last year, I used a home made mixture of 2/3 peat moss and 1/3 perlite (by volume) without lime and it worked fine, but, note that my fertilizer solution contained calcium. I buy peatmoss on sale at Menards for about $5 per 2.2 cubic feet. Perlite is $10.23 per 4 cubic feet at http://www.bfgsupply.com/UserFiles/2008Catalog/5_Soil.pdf. That is cheaper than any premix you can buy.
...See More
Worm Tea vs. Leachate vs. Compost Tea
Q
Comments (6)
I believe I am the one who stated "compost tea." ... but I do not have a "WF." Rather, I have several barrels that are watered by gutter rain and fed with kitchen and garden scraps, as well as chicken poo. At the bottom of the barrel there are several spouts that feed into holding containers. The water that drains through to the holding tank is what I refer to as "compost tea." I use this directly on plants without diluting, and have had only marvelous results. As for the smaller tubs of concentrated redwigglers -- I use the large Wal-Mart totes that held items sent to the thrift store. Stacking two, three, four, or more depending on the amount of worms and accumulated castings. On the very bottom is a solid tote with holes in the lid which holds anything that drains through the top bins. I equipped the bottom bin with old spouts from large detergent containers to dispense the liquid as needed. This liquid...I have no name for it. It is sometimes there, sometimes not, and sometimes I drain water all of the way through to have a bit of concentrated liquid. The concentrated liquid I use on my open-air compost piles or throw in the Compost Tumbler to heat up the compost. But if you have an indoor worm bin, which I believe a "WF" is...I wouldn't want water on the bottom. When my indoor worms (meals and supers) get too wet I think I am seeing spots...then I realize fruit flies are multiplying like crazy. Then it's off to the big-box for some apple cider vinegar and some Damp-Rid. :)
...See More
gardenweed_z6a
12 years ago
Both seaweed extract and fish emulsion are sold at the local garden center where I buy bird seed, flower seed and many other garden items. Last year I noticed they sell both fish emulsion and seaweed extract so I checked to see what the difference was between them and selected the seaweed extract since my plants never seem to have a problem developing healthy roots. They also sell worm "castings" which I expect is just dried worm p**p. I'm fortunate to have healthy, sandy loam soil thanks to my parents practicing organic gardening for 50 years before me. Everywhere I dig there are huge, fat, healthy worms so I know the soil is good. I'm very careful what I use to feed my plants and generally try to select those that don't need much in the way of supplemental nutrients (which = thrive on neglect). If it ain't broke, don't fix it so I try not to disturb the healthy soil that's already sustaining my garden.
echinaceamaniac
12 years ago
Fish emulsion attracts animals to plants due to the smell. Raccoons are digging in the plants since I used it. The stuff smells so bad that I almost had to vomit when mixing it. It's ok, but there is a negative to everything. I have seen no harm to worms with Miracle Grow. I have lots of them in the soil. It also works wonders for my roses and other flowers. To each their own.
mxk3 z5b_MI
12 years ago
Fish emulsion + cats = disaster
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
12 years ago
man i hate these 'i read somewhere once' ... thoughts ... been there.. done that ... crippled me from taking action ...

stick your hand in dry liquid fert .. and it will 'burn' any open cuts or hangnails.. just like table salt .. or vinegar

properly dilute it .... and stick you hand in the bucket.. nothing.. or at worst.. you have a blue or green hand .. lol ..

in my warped world.. its all about proper dilution..

if you care to experiment .. find some slugs.. salt them ... while drooling.. lol ... they will basically slime themselves to dehydration and death trying to get the salt off ... [if you really want to get rid of them.. i would recommend the saute in in garlic butter thingee .. lol] ..

now take a plate.. and pour in a little [not to drown them.. but to make them crawl across] some properly diluted liquid fert.. and i would not be surprised that they crawl right out.. and head for you prized plants ...

rather than relying on third hand 'things' .. try the 800 number on the package ...

growing a lush thick garden .. is going to be better for your wildlife.. than cowering in fear and not maintaining a thriving environment .... that will be conducive to the wildlife you want to attract ...

and this of course is all about PROPER application.. you start throwing handfuls of fert around the yard.. sure.. i would not doubt you could create salt mines that are a negative ... but that scenario really isnnt what you are talking about.. and by that time .... your plants will start dying from over-fert'g

look at it this way.. under the hypothesis that all salt is bad.. one would expect.. up here in the rust belt ... that there would be no beneficial animals.. anywhere a road/driveway/sidewalk is salted ... and i just dont believe that is the fact ...

if you can go organic.. all the power to ya.. i just dont buy that some properly diluted liquid fert is going to be a negative ...

ken
paulsiu
Original Author
12 years ago
Yes, I think I want to stay away from fish emulsions, one night I look out and see a family of raccoon roaming through my yard and the neighbors complaint that they have been fishing in his pond. I think fish emulsion will result in damaged plants.

The seaweed extract sound like a good idea, but doesn't that stuff contain salt (salt as in NaCl)? After doing some research, it appears that liquid fertilizer is probably OK in the short term. I'll give that try to see if it helps the plants and if it does, I'll try to replace it with some organic substitue like seaweed extract or worm castings.

Thanks everyone.

Paul
diggerdee zone 6 CT
12 years ago
Could it be that you are just overwatering? It's just that I noticed the first line of your post - "Despite my water efforts".

If so, fertilizer is a moot point. Maybe they are just getting too much water? I am not familiar with royal catchfly, so maybe not, but just a thought...

:)
Dee
Donna
12 years ago
What a shame that there is no way to hear expressions when reading posts. :) Ken, if you could have heard my head you would have known that I was merely putting forth one "expert's" opinion. I do use Miracle Gro occasionally and my soil teems with earthworms. I personally believe that moderation in all things is the greater part of wisdom. I do occasionally use synthetics and even pesticides and some herbicides, but only when all other possibilities have been exhuasted.

As to the fish emulsion, it is true that it can attract pests, and cats too, for that matter. But only occasionally has this been a problem for me, and that in pots. During severely hot weather like we are having right now, I rather believe that a very mild boost of food like fish emulsion is probably easier on the plant than a knock your socks off jolt like Miracle Gro will surely give.
jean001a
12 years ago
any chance of images?
WendyB 5A/MA
12 years ago
I have always steered clear of fish emulsion due to the fear of attracting unwanted critters. but when I want to give plants an organic splurge, I mix up some of Espoma's BioTone Starter liquid. Its full of goodness and is 4-3-3. Sometimes I have added a small amount of M-Gro too.
paulsiu
Original Author
12 years ago
Here's a picture of the plant. It's grown quite bit since I planted it. It started out about 6 inches tall.

{{gwi:250717}}

It's doubtful that I am overwatering, it's like 95F with no rain for the past couple of days.

The stem is bending due to the wind. Currently, they are on a program of watering with a weak solution of schultz Plant food plus to see if the nitrogen will makes a differences. According to several cannabis growing sites, this may be the cause of yellowing leaves (not that I actually grown any cannabis, but those site tend to have a lot of useful information).

If after a week or two, the plant is greener, then it's a nitrogen problem. If it doesn't help, well it's something else :-)

Paul
lmberg
12 years ago
Paul, your last message gave me quite a laugh. Good thing the police aren't monitoring your internet usage!
flora_uk
12 years ago
I do not know this plant from personal experience but I looked it up and discovered it is an Illinois native plant. That would lead me to think that it doesn't need any extra feeding at all and probably no extra water. However, it does seem to be in a rather cramped spot up against the house overshadowed by the day lilies. I believe it grows naturally out in the open in prairie-like conditions with plenty of sun. Your specimen seems to have rather long internodal stems compared with pictures I've seen and this also implies it is reaching for the light. If it were my plant I think I would move it. Give it some fresh air and light, leave it unfed and stop watering it. Just my thoughts based on reading about the plant's nature.

Are liquid fertilizer bad for worms and frogs

Comments (14)

gardenweed_z6a

Donna

Related Discussions

gardenweed_z6a

echinaceamaniac

mxk3 z5b_MI

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

paulsiu
Original Author

diggerdee zone 6 CT

Donna

jean001a

WendyB 5A/MA

paulsiu
Original Author

lmberg

flora_uk

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Are liquid fertilizer bad for worms and frogs

Comments (14)

Related Discussions

paulsiuOriginal Author

paulsiuOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

paulsiu
Original Author

paulsiu
Original Author