Clay Soil and Citrus Trees

13 years ago

Hi Everyone,

As you can probably guess, I am planning to plant a citrus tree, but my concern is with my very dense clay soil.

Specifically, I would like to plant a Meyer Lemon tree, hopefully grafted onto something that will stay nice and small. I haven't purchased the tree yet because I am still digging up the area I want to plant it in. My soil, however, is very very dense only a few inches down. I tried digging it up with a shovel, but only got about 5 inches in until I hit what is basically dried out dark chocolate. I am going to take a soil sample to my University's Cooperative Extension Office to get the composition tested and see if they have any advice.

I would like to amend the soil and do a lasagna garden, but as I understand, that takes a few years to have something to really work with.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience planting citrus trees in this kind of soil? From what I've read so far, it sounds like the tree would be ok being left in a pot for a while, but I would like to move it into the ground. I just don't want to try to plant it if the clay is going to choke out the roots... granted that I can even dig deep enough to get the root ball far enough in.

Thanks in advance,

Kui

Featured Answer

rott

13 years ago

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My thinking is the other way around to your thoughts.

I'm planting trees in exactly that type of soil to mitigate those conditions.

I should have made the holes bigger but it was a struggle make those. Planted a pomegranate, a lemon and, an acacia. Back filled with a bunch of compost and some coffee grounds for the worms. Plant so everything sits high above the ground because it's all going to settle when throwing in a lot compost.

The lemon was stunted from the get go from being in a pot for too long but is doing fine. Same for the other two. The acacia is branching out and getting height. The pomegranate is flowering and I expect fruit this year.

I have tasked these trees to send their roots out and penetrate the soil. I expect the trees to start the process so when I get around to removing turf and planting natives, the soil will be somewhat ready. I expect a decade to go by before the ground truly accepts water and not let it run off after watering a short while.

I will add compost and other organics as I go along. After the turf is removed, one day, I will mulch to the teeth. It will be a long road. I cannot offer you anything better without a lot of work and drastic action.

A landscape guy offered that I dig trenches and back fill with a lot of compost and let the trenches become organic sinks where the organics will migrate and feed the rest of the yard. I have done that with a couple of small holes and have stopped a couple of bad water runoff spots.

to sense
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Comments (11)

Kimmsr
13 years ago
Many times you will hear that before planting anything in soil amend it with lots of organic matter, but in clay soils if you do that you essentially create someplace where water can flow into freely and then cannot move out easily, so amending the soil just around where you will be planting is not something you want to do. If you can amend a very large area around where you will be planting that would be good, but you do not want to create a "bathtub".
Test your drainage by digging a hole 1 foot in diameter and 1 foot deep and fill that with water and allow that water to drain away. Then refill that hole with more water and time how long it takes to drain. If less then 4 to 6 hours you can add lots of organic matter to the planting hole, but if more than that, while organic matte is needed, it is better to lay that OM on the soil and allow the Soil Food Web to move it in, a process that takes much longer but gets the OM into the soil better than tilling.
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g'day daleblack, better late than never maybe hey? but here goes. first questions (as i have never used brunning gypsum), was the gypsum of a moist talcum powder type consistancy? second if yor soil is like it sounds why fight it? use raised beds for all gardens, if you wanted to you could do a raised bed first where the trees are going then plant the trees in to rasied bed, the main thing with trees is their feeder roots need to be well drained the tap root will pretty much find its own way. so for trees that need good feeder root drainage you need to plant them into a raised position that is you dig a slight hole into your original soil throw some good quality gypsum in (usually the best stuff is bought at a produce agency) then create a mound to what ever height you need over and above that to plant the trees into (might be anywher up to 1/2 the heith of the current root ball?), this is necessary with citrus in those heavy soils so you may get some clues from researching planting citrus trees. len Here is a link that might be useful: len's garden page
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oracleofmn: How bad is the clay? If it drains decent enough, you should be ok. Prunus will not tolerate standing water or poorly drained sites well. What part of MN are you in? Just asking as Montmorency is not as cold hardy as some other varieties so might be best only in SE MN or in a protected site. I recall a friend trying to grow that variety near Sleepy Eye, MN as his wife came from cherry country in Door County WI where Montmorency is planted heavily. They had trouble with winter hardiness on Montmorency. You may want to try Mesabi. I have that in my orchard in WI and it has fairly large fruit and yellow fleshed. Nice flavor. The yield is not as high as Montmorency however. If you like tart cherries that have a dark flesh and much stronger cherry flavor try North Star or Sweet Cherry Pie (originated near River Falls, WI. Evans is really hardy too! Sweet Cherry Pie has perhaps the highest yield as a friend of mine grows them in Western WI at his U-pick orchard. He has tried them all (including Balaton) and his favorite is Sweet Cherry Pie for high yields. 50 cherry trees? Wow. I have 3 trees and we get all the fruit we need for 2 families to share. I once lived in Lake City MN for 8 years so somewhat familiar with the Minnesota climate (mighty cold winters).
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Yes: pull your tree up immediately and plant it where it does not sit in a puddle, hope that it bounces back. Due to root death drowning plants have the same problem with not enough water getting to their tops as those where there isn't enough moisture in the soil. If you have nowhere there that isn't a damp and heavy soil that puddles when water is abundant then you will probably have to make a berm or mound of purchased soil for this tree. Or give up on trying to grow drainage sensitive kinds like this on your site. The only other option is to install a network of pipes that collect the excess water and move it away. To be able to do this you have to have access to a low area for the unwanted water to be directed into. Basically a retention pond, depending on how much water may be involved.
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You're having bad posting etiquette again, HOWARD Martin. I would suggest trying to figure out how to edit your posts, so you don't have to make three different posts in a row, each with a one line comment. I would have private messaged you, but you have not changed the settings on your account to enable me to do so, and I doubt you have the wherewithal to figure out how to do that on this forum, since it seems you don't know how to edit your posts. I know it can be really frustrating and hard trying to use this forum from your phone, but please figure it out.
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kuinut
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks rott and kimmsr. I'll keep in mind what I'm learning from you two.

-rott: Actually, I don't think I have enough organic material to amend the entire yard area that's been designated as a future garden. I actually had no idea that the tree roots would be able to develop so strongly at such an early age to break through all that clay. Only problem is, I doubt I can dig a hole deep enough to get far enough down to stick the root ball.

-kimmsr: As I mentioned to rott, I doubt I can dig a whole that deep. I was actually considering a pick axe at one point... I have been trying, but as it stands right now, those few inches down are holding on to water pretty badly. I'd like to let it dry out, but the weather's been pretty overcast and drizzly for about two weeks now...
rowley_birkin
13 years ago
I recently planted I lime tree on heavy clay - I didn't bother to dig a hole. I just plonked the root ball on top of the soil and built a mound of compost and mulch around it. Too soon to say how the tree is faring, but drainage seems to be excellent and the underlying clay should improve over time.
rott
13 years ago
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Yeah I kind of ignored the bath tub effect. I've had these trees for a while and they needed to get into the ground. At the same time, I figured the trees would do more for the ground than what I was doing at the time which was close to nothing.

I'm kind of hoping the bath tub effect to allow water to percolate deeper and the roots to chase the water. It's dry country here. I'm betting it's dry enough to mitigate the rot in the bath tub effect. We'll see. A lot of planting is done in the fall for the winter rains in these parts.

Used a pick axe to dig those holes. Not as deep as I was thinking either. Good thing it wasn't a hot day.

to sense
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john_bonzo
13 years ago
I think that raised beds are the way to go in this situation. I would raise about a foot with a nice sandy mix and plant in there. If drainage is a problem, then I would also make sure that you have trifoliate orange rootstock and not just a Meyer Lemon cutting (Meyers are usually propogated by rooted cuttings rather than budded or grafted).

It sort of depends on where you are located as well.
User
13 years ago
Only problem is, I doubt I can dig a hole deep enough to get far enough down to stick the root ball.

Shovels aren't the best digging tool. There's a reason they call it "Pick and Shovel" work. Use a pick-axe or a mattock to break up the dirt and the shovel to move the loosened dirt.

You need a hole that is NO DEEPER than the root ball and about 3 times as wide. Dig, fill the hole with water, let it soak in, and then plant the tree.
Backfill with native soil, no amendments ... then water as needed. Clay soil is very easy to saturate, so be cautious.
HOWARD Martin
4 years ago
Dig holes when clay soil is wet or you have hard times digging into the clay
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
I don't mess around ininstead I start lemons in clay soil from seeds they adapt clay
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
the only way is keep digging and put organic peatemoss and layer the clay and peatemoss that will allow some drainage but don't plant too deep
HOWARD Martin
3 years ago
I'm not messing around I'm starting my citrus trees in dence clay as seeds that way they can grow, right through it l hope these 2 last post helps

Clay Soil and Citrus Trees

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