Do a raised garden.
There was a post a few weeks ago, someone posted how to lasagna garden. You can also rent a kubota. IMO pots will not work in the long run. I've had roses in pots since fall of 2006, spring 2007 and it's a pain to keep watered, move them (heavy). Roses do much better in the ground.

I'm not talking puny rose pots either. Most of mine are in 15- 20 gallon IIRC.

A lasagna garden would work!! You're right. Didn't think of that. But.....I've told my husband about this method before, and he thinks it will just be a huge mess. I'll talk some more with him.

In the meantime - has anyone had good experiences with overwintering a huge amount of pots in the garage or long term satisfaction with roses in pots?

Carol

You can use something like stackable blocks to build a raised bed of any dimensions that suit your situation.
We've made many planting areas in that way.

Jeri

If you go with the pots, get a flat trailer to hold the pots and take them back and forth to the garage on the trailer each morning and evening. It's a lot easier to move them all at once than one at a time.
Covering them up like you said can lead to lots of scraggly and white growth that could be damaged once placed outside. By the time night time temps are amenable to them being outside full time, day time temps can be too warm for the light starved growth to survive.
Flat trailers like those used to carry garden tractors or golf carts are relatively inexpensive. I bought one two years ago for $399 at a big box home improvement store. I use it to carry potted roses to a parking lot on a busy road a few blocks from my home where I sell them. I leave them on the trailer as it's about the right height for people to look at the bushes. Mine easily hold 50 potted roses.

Out of necessity I have a lot of pots--great sun on the south side of the house, and a large concrete deck by the pool. I'd like to get rid of that, but can't. So I have every inch of garden space planted, and have about 25 very large pots on the deck. This is going on 6 years now, and some of the roses are very large and although they probably would be happier in the ground, it's what I can do. Mistral, Glowing Peace, Tropicana, Ambridge Rose, Johann Strauss--they've done very well in pots; mind you, I don't bring in the pots in the winter. I just move them close to the house and the concrete and the shelter/warmth from the house probably protect them. I rarely lose a plant and don't do anything special. Canada is another story, but even quite small roses, like one year old Buck roses made it through this past winter without any protection. If you take the view that the only way you can make it work is to keep roses in pots, and you are willing to lose one once in awhile, then just do it. Something is better than nothing!

Thanks everyone!! :)

I wrote down all of your suggestions, and I'm going to talk about them with my husband. You've all brought up good ideas and points.

Thanks!
Carol

Re: building raised beds, this could pull your hardiness zone down as the soil will be raised and exposed to the cold more than ground-level. And whether you do lasagna or not to build up some soil, once the rose roots hit the compacted rocky soil they won't be happy.

I know what you mean about hauling them in and out. I have purchased over the years the most lightweight (but natural-looking) pots that I could find, but still, filled with soil and rose they are still quite heavy. If you can't afford the trailer like Karl posted about, try getting one or two hand-carts that you push. I found one at a surplus store for about $20, fits 2-3 potted roses on it. Ideally it would be nice to have something big enough that could fit them all on it at once and just be able to push in and out and not have to lift the roses on and off it until they're ready for permanent placement outdoors.

How about a greenhouse? Make sure it is well ventalated.

Here's a tip about a raised bed. This came from someone on the stupendous Garden Web Florida Forum.

She will be using sand bags. If they are placed neatly and have trailing plants, or some of that native stone, placed at the edges and sides they should be great.

Lots of good ideas!!

I think I agree with Veilchen - the hardiness zone would be pulled down if I built a raised bed - that happened to me in Edmonton. So sand bags (nice idea though), raised beds - I just don't think that will work. Of course, if I wanted to just grow hardy roses (that would be too easy - LOL) I would go that way.

A greenhouse - I've never heard of anyone in zone 3 who had one. Would that work?

Thanks a million everyone!
Carol

I'm just throwing this out there--how about renting a Bobcat/skidloader thingy for a day and digging out the whole bed at once, and then filling in with topsoil/amendments? Might not work, logistics-wise, and it will compact surrounding soil a little or hurt some turfgrass, but it sure made it easy to dig out our new patio a few years ago (there was old cracked-up concrete there before that had to come up). If you do this, make sure to call the utility companies to mark your utility lines.

That is a great idea! Unfortunately there are underground sprinklers in each bed. But I will mention it to my hubby!

Carol

A greenhouse won't work unless it's heated in the winter. Even in my zone 5 I wouldn't dare put anything tender in my greenhouse from Oct. thorugh March. If you had one attached to your house that captured the ambient heat from it, that might work. But then you'd have to fuss over the plants through the winter as they would be in the sun and would not go dormant vs. in your garage.

What kind of temperature swings are we talking about?

I keep tender roses in pots. Mutabilis has been in a pot for 15 years. I've known people who have had chinas in pots for 20-30 years. Keeping them in a pot isn't an issue.

In a normal winter, they may go in and out about 3 times before staying out permanently. We do not get the temperature swings common in other places (we just warm up very slowly) Freezing temperatures in and of themselves aren't a problem. Roses can handle a few degrees of frost, particularly in spring when it's to be expected.

Mad Gallica - Well, this winter I took my roses in and out for about 1 1/2 months. We live near the mountains and the nights get quite cool (-10 C) even when the days are (8 C). But I'm convinced that pots are the way to go!! It's great to hear that roses have done for well for so long for you. That relieves my mind. Could you share with me how you renew your soil, etc? Or do you just add nice new stuff on top? I'll use diluted compost water for fertilizer.

Veilchen - thanks for the information of greenhouses. I've always wondered about that.

Carol

I've only really grown own-root roses in pots, which have the advantage of starting out fairly small. So for several years, they just get potted up into the next size. Eventually, though, they do get large enough that I can't move a larger pot around. Then I do scrape old soil away from the rootball, and add new soil.

due to my very small amount of garden beds in the townhouse where i live, i have most of my roses in large containers and they do great. the two most important issues i have learned this winter was that if it gets too cold- we hit record lows here this winter of below -17 celsius, the smaller pots may succumb because the roses roots will freeze. i lost half of mine due to this. however, the pots that were near the house were absolutely not affected.
this winter i am going to move my containers near the house where it is a few degrees warmer and that will do the trick.
the other issue is good drainage- always go for a light soil- i use soiless mixes and the roses love it. if it is too heavy the pots will compact very soon.
the beauty of containers is that you can control the growing environment better i think. works for me

Carol,

you mentioned a "new house". Is it new construction? When we moved into our new house 3 years ago, it was new construction with a backyard of rocks and weeds and rocks and more rocks (we're on glacial till). It literally took DH an hour to try and dig a hole for the bird feeder pole. Between the compaction from construction and the baking of the dry clay in the summer, it was just about impossible to dig. We've been adding compost on top and the earthworms have moved in. In other beds we've used wood chips. (We always put a layer of 8-10 sheets of newspaper down under the compost and the chips. It helps keep moisture in and the earthworms love it.) You would not believe the difference in the soil--there are actually large areas in my yard now that are pretty easy to dig in (except for the rocks!)

There are still some spots that are pretty hard--places where the builder piled rocks and compacted them down into the clay. For an experiment we put a pile of compost over one of these areas last fall or early this spring (no mixing-just piled it on top), and let the earthworms go to work. I was actually able to dig it up enough to put some tomatoes out the other day!

Sounds like you're planning to at least start in pots, but compost works a treat for loosening up the soil for future use.

I over-winter pots of perr. and roses in my garage. I line them up in front of the garage door with it up thru the day and shut it at night. If it faces the sun for some part of the day that is good enough. It works for me. I also use only empty plant cells and styrofoam in the bottom of the pots to keep the weight down and give drainage. My experience indicates the circumferance is more important than the depth of a pot. Susz

mad gallica - how do you know when they need to have the soil redone?

joebar - I've used a premium potting soil mix that is provided by a local soil place. The soil comes in HUGE soil bags and it's wonderfully light.

lucretia - no it's not a newly constructed house. That's why all the darn tree roots are such a problem. Do you think that your method (lasagna) will get rid of the tree roots?

Susz - what circumference is the best?

Thanks everyone!

Carol

Hello Carol; As some folks have said-you MAY indeed raise roses in pots and over winter them in your garage. I saved an article written locally in the Detroit Free Press, Aug. 1, 1993. Cultivating roses this way,a gentleman nearby raised 600 roses, moving them in and out of his garage from winter to spring.(More than probably ANYONE would wish to, but never the less, a wonderful article depicing his general guide lines for healthy plants.)
I will be happy to send more info re this article if you are interested-this idea always excited me but because we go south all winter I knew any potted roses left here would dry out from neglect.

Six hundred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Moving them in and out each spring!!!! GAH!!!!!

In the article did he say HOW he moved them in/out? Did he have them on rolling shelves, casters or just lug them around?

How in the world did he have room for 600 roses in a garage??????

Did he list any tips?

Thanks Daisy!!!

Carol

Yes this rose expert "lugs" the roses into the garage on Dec. 1. He covers the soil with plastic to preserve moisture. Not the entire plant. (Doesn't say HOW he moves them.) He uses plastic pots only-about 40# limit and 16" across. Leaves garage closed all winter. Roses freeze-but do not dehydrate. This is key he says to success. April 1, he returns plants to outdoors-no winter die-back. He feeds with organic fertilizer, prunes for shape. Feeds diluted half strength liquid food every 2 weeks. Pic in the article shows average sized fellow with roses lined up his entire cement driveway, like a hedge. He says sometimes root pruning is required or pruning them way back because they become so large. He also keeps hostas this way and he of course has roses in the ground in the yard, too. (Also cooks dinner every night and works 2 jobs!-no, kidding...)

I employ the same garage method but with only 60 or so pots. They go in an unheated, unattached garage in December and come out late March, early April. I too "lug" each by hand (although I should invest in a cart to make it easier on my back). I realize I'm in a MUCH warmer zone than you, but this can be done on a smaller scale. I've done this for three years and so far haven't lost any. Good luck to you!!

I just put in 4-4x4x12 posts to construct my arbor and to plant my Zephirine Drouhin and New Dawn beside the arbor. It took forever. There was a solid 6 in layer of gravel and pebbled rock. I'm unsure why but once we got past that, it was just clay. One thing that we found quite useful was to use one of those "claw" aerators to twists the rocks up out of the ground, so that way you can shovel under the rock and actually scoop it out as opposed to jumping on the shovel and just hitting rock and not moving at all. It's good exercise. ;)

Jeffcat - that's a good idea - I'll tell my husband that - since he still has to dig a bit for me for my perennials.

Aurora - How do you fit 60 pots in your garage? Do you have them staked on shelves? Sounds like a lot of work - probably keeps your back in shape!

Daisy - wow!!! this guy sounds amazing!!! I still can't get over the number!! My pots are 25" pots, so they're bigger.

My husband is thinking of buying heavy duty shelves from Cosco and buying a scissor lift (or something like that) to lift the pots up onto the shelves. He wants to put wheels/casters on the bottom of the shelves. Then I just roll the shelves in and out in the spring. He's a sweetie!

Oh, what we do for our roses!

Carol

I found this thread while wondering if I could grow a rose on a balcony in a pot... still not sure of the answer, but I thought I should chime in that be very careful if you plan to make raised beds near established trees. Burying the root flare of older trees - especially certain upland species (oaks, hickories, etc.) can be bad for the health of the tree.

Funny you mention it. I just read that in the paper this morning. I'm not planning on making a raised bed (although getting rid of the neighbors' trees would be a plus). Actually, I don't want to cause problems with the neighbors and I don't really want to kill their trees (just get their roots out of my garden, please) :)

But I was planning on making lasagna beds all along he perimeter of our yard. Would that harm the trees or just provide good soil for my perennials?

Thanks,
Carol

radgast

There was a thread either on here or the antique rose forum last fall where someone was growing roses on a balcony. So as long as your balcony gets good sun (better if morning sun) and if you will not have a issue of standing water or watering you neighbor below when you water your plants why not. There are great smaller roses that do very well in pots.

Liz

I had a similiar issue in Calgary when I started 10 years ago. I had about 4 to 6 inches of soil then the beige bouldery clay you can not dig through to bury the graft 4 to 6 inches below grade. I built all raised beds about 12 to 14 inches with garden stone and green garden ties to hold the soil in. Where ugly looking I planted juniper (there are other varieties that will do) in front of the ties and stone ... it is a low spreading juniper and eventually gets high enough to hide the raised bed bricks and ties - it is now so dense I could remove the stone and ties and the soil would not bre lost. I put in about 20ft3 of woodland mix from ornamental gardens (at the airport) - it is a large garden by city standards.

Lasanga bed would work also just remember it has to be high enough to bury the graft or crown on tender own roots after the soil has settled. I use a rule of thumb with grafted tender roses that I need a total depth of at least 18 inches of good soil. By the way, my way was a lot of work but I went large scale. I have never successfully over wintered roses (tender) in my unheated garage but that does not mean it can not be done here.

here the front about 5 years later .., the rugosa (the hunter) in the front fore ground are not in raised beds - die to the ground but come back with a very strong bloom ... the raised bed is around the tree and you can see the juniper - it is up in the Hamptons

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Hi Riku!

You live in the Hamptons! I live in Royal Oak near Rocky Ridge Road. Small world!! I think the name Rocky Ridge speaks for itself! :)

I have overwintered roses in pots before - not on this large scale though! :) 30 roses so far from this year to overwinter.

Prairie Sunrise, John Davis (well, of course that one survived!), Aquarius, Betty White, Gruss all survived in the garage. I probably will lose some, but that's okay.

I miss my old garden.

Carol