B.O.G. I am a little confused. Are you making a compost pile, doing lasagna type beds, raised beds, or spreading this stuff on the ground to garden in?

If you are building a compost pile, you have a good start on the necessary ingredients. Actually most anything will decompose given enough time. I would not use wood chips if I had any other options. Chips from green trees and trimmings are probably greens instead of browns, but either way, they take quite a long time to break down to the point to where I would want them in my garden.

I much prefer shredded oak leaves, followed by hay for the browns that I use.

The fresh stuff from the stalls is great for making compost, and even for spreading on a garden IF you are not planning on planting in it till it has had time to decompose.

For the first question, personally, no I don't think so.

Second question. Yes, and it should look something like {{gwi:271664}} which originally included thin wood shavings and bits of alfalfa hay, which of course also became urine soaked and was tromped in with the manure in the stalls. There should be no objectionable odor, should have a pleasant earthy smell, but not strong.

If I were making compost tea, I would probably go ahead and use some. There are several schools of thought on "teas" aerated, non aerated etc. but I think that most will probably benefit your garden if the soil is lacking in nutrients and in need of something.

Just through my own experiences and observations, I have become a firm believer in that feed the soil to feed your plants thing. It is not an instant gratification thing, and takes some years to get your soil to where you want it. I have been amending heavily with oak leaves, home made compost and horse manure and growing a fall / winter crop of mustard, turnips and rutabaggas to mow, mulch and turn under after the first of the year. It has paid off for me and enables me to achieve results like {{gwi:49376}}.

Now, I only very sparingly use any fertilizers at all, basically just an occasional light application of 21-0-0 Ammonium Sulfate in mid winter after I have put on a good layer of shredded oak leaves along with the other amendments. Mostly because our soil here leans slightly to the alkaline and the sulfur is to adjust the pH and the nitrogen can probably be used to help break down the leaves. I also have not used anything in the way of pesticides last year or so far this year except for some soapy water in a little hand spray bottle. That may soon have to change because of the extremely wet spring and now the danged stink bugs have showed up early. They do not usually hit till hot dry weather arrives.

I understand your comments and sentiments about the grand kids. I enjoy teaching one of my {{gwi:49313}} (shown here helping me spread shredded leaves as mulch around the plants) who shows a real interest and knack for gardening. I even occasionally get some help from one of my {{gwi:290945}} who enjoyed playing with the tractor with the front end loader when we went to get that trailer load of aged horse manure.

Good luck to you with your rebuilding with your garden. I am sure that others will have their ideas and suggestions.
Bill P.

Hay is a "green" while straw is a "brown", even spoiled hay is a "green".
Unless there is too much moisture in the compost pile any pile less than 6 feet b 6 feet will get sufficient air to keep the aerobic bacteria digesting happily is there is a good balance of C:N. Enough Nitrogen for them to use to make sufficient protein and ltos of Carbon to feed on, with just enough moisture to make life bearable.

Hey 'fishin

My main objective is to compost this stuff to the point where I can use it almost pure in my raised planters.

I was considering buying a chipper/shredder to shred the wood chips even finer to help them decompose faster (whatcha think?). Leaves of any kind are sorta hard to come-by down here, these days. Katrina did a job on defoliating, debranching, and uprooting every tree within driving distance of here. Maybe this winter we will have some leaves to collect. I just can't afford to purchase browns.

I wouldda thought the manure, alfalfa, and urine was all you needed for a complete fertile mix, along with your leaves. What did you think you were lacking when you decided to grow these particular crops for compost? Or, is it called "green manure" when you turn 'em under?

I thought I had hit the jackpot when I found my source of "stable stuff". I knew some carbon was needed (wood chips) but, it never occurred to me that more and different greens was gonna be called-for.

I've decided to send samples of every planter, and samples of our ground-soil to be tested over at LSU. The planter stuff to be analyzed for nutrients and, the ground-soil for contamination from the flood waters of Katrina. It sure would be nice to be able to plant stuff in the ground again.

Dude, that is some serious-looking compost! It sure does look like plain-ole dirt.

Fine-looking grand son Bill! Does he like to go fishing with you. Down here in trout-n-redfish country, my boys are killin 'em right now. The shrimp are inside and the big ones followed 'em in. They fish 'em with rods-n-reels but, prefer bow fishing.

Thanks BigolDood. That bow fishing sounds like fun. A fair amount of that is done around here in the flood waters where creeks, rivers and lakes are out of their banks. However it is mostly for rough fish like Alligator Gar, Carp etc. It was on T.V. yesterday where one guy had got a 60 something pound grass carp.

Due to my age and health, I do not get to go fishing like I used to, although on rare occasions my grandson does like to go. My oldest son is in town for a week or so and we have combined 2 four wheelers (ATVs) for him and he has been in hawg heaven mudding for a few days now, getting thoroughly covered with mud several times per day.

You are in a situation with the aftermath of Katrina unlike any that I have faced. I hope that the soil in your area is not contaminated because I think that you need soil to round things out. All the other things, compost, manure, green manure etc is just amendments and added things like milk and sugar on your cereal to make it better. The greens are something that I love to eat, they are a good cover crop if you are not needing special things like nitrogen fixing legumes or something with dense roots to trap and kill nematodes like some of the rye grasses etc. There is a lot of volume in them to add back to the soil.

I did not think that my soil is lacking, but one should continue to amend to maintain and improve if possible. I think that compost is excellent and depending on what it is made from, sequesters many of the necessary elements in it, but none of it tests very high in N,P and K, even the good stuff, and the consistency of it while great, is not one that would hold moisture well for long just by it's self. It is too well drained and dries out too fast. I have used it as mulch and it does benefit the plants with the stuff leaching down to the root zone I am convinced, but it does not do a very good job of surpressing unwanted weeds and grasses. They just grow good in it.

Yes, a chipper shredder would be great to help reduce those wood chips and help them compost much faster. But once again, if the trees that they came from were green, they are green. If it was deadwood, then I think that it would be more of a carbon source.

On two occasions, I have got a pick up bed load (with home made sideboards and tromped down) of hay from a local feed store free for the asking. Once it was {{gwi:265052}},the next time it was good but not excellent. Either load would be good for mulching around plants or making compost.

If you have any cotton gins in your area, you might secure some free cotton burr material to use for browns, or sawdust from a lumber mill. Sugar cane or sugar beet residues if available would be great, although might be more greens. Explore the possibilities.

I really think that your source of manure from the stalls is great and it is just a matter of time till it is composted enough to be an excellent amendment to your beds. You can continue to add to them all along as the stuff composts even further and shrinks in them. They should get a good, healthy population of worms and a great micro herd going there.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Bill P.

Don't forget about cardbord and newspapers as a brown source. In the summer, it's about my only brown source. Keep it simple, absorb the wisdom of the folks here, and have fun.

Tracy

Bil
My son will be driving me right up to my duck blind. I can no longer get in-n-out out of a pirogue any longer. His air boat makes some things much easier.

You, your son, and your grand son now have a standing invitation to come down and let us take you on the lowest-impact hunting or fishing trips you can imagine. Bill, if you don't take me up on this, it's your own fault!

Giving up my painfully acquired garden space to a cover crop is hard. As y'all already know, we can have a flourishing and actively growing garden all winter long here. My ground soil had nematodes out-the-wazoo before Katrina. What exactly would a cover-crop of rye grass actually do? Is there any more nematode suppressing techniques y'all can share.

You make me painfully aware of how much I need to learn about soil and how it's built. Nitrogen fixing of legumes is a perfect example of my limited understanding.

Hey Wag
Every single piece of furniture belonging to the 75,000 people of our "parish" was thrown out with all of the rest of their belongings. There is enough new furniture and new appliance boxes to create a pile as big as the Superdome! And, I keep forgetting about using them.

Wherever I read about soil building, "they" say it takes some years to achieve. While I'm waiting, if I used very weak frequent applications of Peter's 20-20-20 at the rate of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon (or even less) of water. This would be applied to the soil only. Exactly what detrimental effect would that strength have on my worms or my micro-herd?

Hi bigoledude:

I'm new to composting and soil building myself. I've learned a lot on here! I wish you luck with your projects.

One other source of browns for you: are there any businesses in your area that might use a paper shredder? Bags of shredded paper would be a great addition. You could probably get yourself a shredder for your home, and use it to shred junk mail or possibly even old newspapers to use as browns.

Sending soil samples to LSU is a great way to start! They can tell you all sorts of information about what kind of amendments you need to rebuild your soil. You have a point, it can take "years" to rebuild soil. However, that doesn't mean you cannot have a healthy growing medium by this season.

Have you read about lasagna gardening? It might be a really good option for you. Lay down some of that cardboard you have around, and layer on grass clippings, manure, leaves/hay/shredded paper, peat moss if you have it, lots of things! Use old coffee grinds, they are wonderful "greens". You will build a bed that will compost in place, and will create beautiful soil over time. I tried it for the first time this year, and I have the most healthy veggie garden ever.

I've just been learning about "green manures" myself, which is some of what Bill is referring to. Planting a cover crop of rye, clover, and other things helps fix nutrients into the soil. Then, you chop it or turn it into the ground, where it breaks down and helps build the soil. I got a recommendation from someone on the Vegetable forums regarding a seed mixture to use, and I will post it below. I plan to try it this fall or spring. A 1/4 pound will reportedly cover 1600 square feet.

(Bill's comment about rye helping to choke out nematodes is totally new to me, but wow does it sound fascinating!)

I look forward to hearing your progress! It sounds like you are building wonderful memories with your grandson while you rebuild your gardens.

Take care,
Emmie

Here is a link that might be useful: Park's Organic Cover Crop