Planting new tree in old tree spot - optimizing success

13 years ago

Hi all,

I have what I think is a purple leaf plum in the front yard (tree was here when I moved in). It suffered HORRIBLY of black knot (literally almost every branch was covered). At the advice of a friend, the tree was cut back to remove the knots, but basically it's not a tree any more, it's a trunk with a few limbs sticking maybe a foot or two up.

I don't know if this tree will ever grow back or if I killed it by cutting it back. :( It hasn't shown any signs of doing anything since last spring when it was cut. So even if it will grow back eventually, I'm not sure I have the patience to deal with this eyesore, considering it's the only big plant in my tiny yard. I actually am shocked my HOA isn't demanding removal of it, and I do half expect to get a letter this spring about it....

So my questions are:

1.) IF I do remove this old tree, can I plant a new tree in the same spot? My yard is so tiny (townhouse) that I don't have an option of putting a tree anywhere else, and my HOA requires all lots to have either a tree or a specimen plant in the yard.

2.) Do I need to worry about the black knot in the soil?

3.) Any advice on what to do in the hole to help the new tree along? I've read conflicting advice online....some say to leave the sawdust/chips from stump grinding, others say to remove them; the tree is so tiny I may not even have to grind the stump anyway, but may be able to remove the stump by digging. Some places say to dig out all the old soil and put in new.... do I need to add anything to the soil? And what kind of soil are we talking about here? Like potting soil?

4.) Does anyone know what kind of root system a purple plum has (spreading vs. tap root) and how that may affect the choice of a new tree? For new trees, I'm looking at something like a redbud, sourwood, amur maple, or paperbark maple, or if I go with a specimen plant maybe a contorted filbert or a lilac.....

Thanks so much for any advice!!!

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Comments (8)

brandon7 TN_zone7
13 years ago
no signs of life since last spring = dead tree

tree with it's limbs cut off = worthless, topped tree that would need to be removed anyway

black knot fungus present = don't replace with another plant from the Prunus genus

How large is the tree? If it's small enough to remove completely (without grinding the stump) and I wanted to put a tree in that same spot, I'd try to remove the whole tree and not just grind down the stump. If the stump is too large and has to be ground down, you definitely should remove the sawdust/chips from the soil before planting a new tree (you don't have to get every last chip up, BTW). Don't try to replace the soil. Having different types of soil may cause drainage issues and encourage poor root system development of your new tree.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
how about some exercise ????

i would suspect a few .. stubborn large roots ... and not much more ...

define a circle about 3 feet round.. with the trunk in the middle ... and just start digging towards the trunk ... it will not be easy.. just keep at it ... sharpening your shovel in advance.. might make the digging a bit easier ...

expose and cut the major roots with a tree saw out at the far edge of the hole ... just start cleaning out the hole .. and start wiggling the tree back and forth ... sooner or later it will start moving.. and as it moves.. it tells you where the next one is..

the only hard one.. might be the one that goes.. more or less straight down beneath the trunk ... just keep digging until you can expose it ...

by the time it is out.. you will have a new hole.. just about perfect for the new tree .. just reuse the native soil .... new post if you want planting instructions ...

it will be some good exercise.. if you can not handle it... find a grandson .. or a friends.. and flip him 20 bucks.. or a neighbor [dont flip beer ... lol ] .. etc ...

stay away from all plums as a replacement .... and be leery of anything in prunus as brandon notes ...

IMHO .... it is my opinion that stump grinding is overkill ... but then i have never seen a plum bigger than about a 6 inch trunk ...

i think black knot is wind borne.. therefore remnants in the soil is not an issue ... but i would defer on that ...

ken
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If you can find for sale in your area, a good sandy loam topsoil, which is not on the too sandy scale, That should mix well with the topsoil dug out of your previous project. I did the same thing with a friend when their Maple broke off in a storm, and after they wenched out the stump. The native soil there is clay, and we planted a a 20 gallon potted, 3 trunked 'Tuscarora' crape myrtle in the middle, four White New Dawn roses around the tree which are pruned and wrapped to encircle the trunks. Then we planted a hedge of Dwarf yaupon 'nana' around the roses with hostas at their base. That was three years ago, and it has surprised me to discover that friend has not encountered any drainage problems. Everything planted in the new bed has abundantly thrived. Maybe the lack of drainage problems is due to the voids left in the soil when the Maple tree's remaining roots decayed. Anyway, We used a full cubic yard of the best quality sandy loam topsoil we could find. First though we mixed gysumn into the clay around the hole. and then we layered the Sandy loam and more native soil into the hole. Near the top, we ran out of native soil so finished of the mounded bed with the sandy loam. The bed is watered with a soaking hose which circles around the tree and beneath the roses. Neighbors often praise the way the landscaping in that bed appears, compared to when the Maple tree grew there with hostas beneath it.
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you are way over thinking this ... if it was ground out.. and the grindings removed .. and you can actually dig deep enough to plant the tree.. you can not plant in the grindings ... well ??? ..... then plan on planting the tree .. especially a maple ... have a soil test done.. and if it shows any problems .. fix those problems.. NO GUESSING.. and winging it .. you are spot on on tree spikes.. just send me the money.. for what they are worth ... if you mulch your grass.. or fert your grass.. the tree will get all it needs.. no need to double up by doing the lawn.. and then doing the tree ... see link for planting guide ... if you are looking for a high quality fall color tree.. i suggest you locate some good local tree farms.. and select the tree in fall color ... i would also suggest that you go no bigger that 6 to 8 feet ... and plant it in the appropriate season ... leafless... 6 to 8 weeks prior to bud out ... or in late fall.. depending where you are ... if you select a tree in the wrong season.. pay a deposit.. and have them TAG the tree .. for future sale ... its done all the time ... it would help to know.. where you are ... hopefully the planting guide will give a base knowledge ... and we can work with you from there ... ken Here is a link that might be useful: link
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Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
13 years ago
If I loose some soil or need more soil to fill a hole after removing a stump or um, driving in the yard, I use the CHEAPEST top soil available at the hardware store. Theory is the cheapest one has the lowest amount of additives.

If a hoke must be filled back in and the property is suburban where you can not excavate elsewhere I believe this is the best option.

Any other suggestions?
IpmMan
13 years ago
Black Knot is an airborne disease and does not live in the soil. However, it can spread to your new tree by other Prunus Sp. in the area. Black knot is commonly spread when a landscaper prunes an uninfected tree after pruning an infected one without sterilizing the pruning tools. I would look for a tree you like that is not in the Prunus species. If you must have a Plum there are resistant varieties, but resistant does not mean immune.

Here is a link that might be useful: More about Black Knot
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
if you need more soil.. go dig a hole somewhere else.. and use the native soil for trees ...

then fill the other hole with soil brought in.. and plant annuals or perennials in the new soil ...

in other words.. steal it from a flower bed ... the flowers wont care about it .. or in the alternative.. you lose a few bucks in flowers.. rather than the money invested in the tree ...

ken
bunnywafer
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks everyone for your replies! I'm actually going to have a tree company that gives free estimates come out and look at the situation and advise as well....

I do not have the tools to tackle this job myself (literally, I don't even own a shovel; although I suppose I will need to buy one, but I don't have anything tools to cut the roots with). I'm going to ask around work and my neighbors to see if anyone else has tools I can borrow, otherwise I'm not sure it's worth buying the tools when I can have someone else remove the tree for me.

But I very much appreciate the advice on the black knot and the soil issues....I was looking at the tree this AM and there are a few little white bumps on the trunk and limbs I don't remember being there before..knowing nothing about trees, I'd say it looks like some sort of fungus...there are also skinny red shoots coming out of some limbs....I don't know if that means it is trying to grow back or not....either way I think this tree is sickly and best put out of its misery :)

Thanks again!

If anyone cares to give more advice to a hapless newbie, I have another question over in the "new to gardening" forum that isn't getting any love....
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
how about linking it???

you should ask around at work for bhubbies, sons or grandsons willing to earn a bit of money .. it would be worht $50 to me ...

be very leery of snake oil tree guys.. for every good one .. there are two who need the boat payment ...

i still suggest you avoid grinding ... due to your small space ...

ken
bunnywafer
Original Author
13 years ago
Ken, ok here is the link for the other thread....I hope I did it right. I'm new around here, as well as to gardening :)

I contacted a tree company that got a very high rating in the local book that rates such things...I will still ask friends if they have anyone they know who could help, but the estimate is free, so I figure it won't hurt....

Why does the small space effect whether or not the stump should be ground? Does grinding damage a large portion of the ground or something?

Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: My post in the new gardeners forum needs some love :)

Planting new tree in old tree spot - optimizing success

Comments (8)

brandon7 TN_zone7

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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Planting new tree in old tree spot - optimizing success

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brandon7 TN_zone7

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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