serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....
serenasyh
14 years ago
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14 years agolast modified: 9 years agopetsitterbarb
14 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
Rose rosette disease concerns
Comments (12)About your other question, I think Chamblee, Roses Unlimited or David Austin are all first-rate nurseries and I would not hesitate to order from any of them. My personal preference is for Roses Unlimited, but I don't know if I have a good reason for that preference. I just love opening their boxes and seeing the roses already in bloom. On the other hand, I have to wait until after mid-May to get them--which is 3-4 weeks later than I usually plant, at the latest, my other roses. It is very upsetting to discover RRD in your garden--it's happened three different times in a three year period in my gardens, but fortunately only one plant per year--but still, that is upsetting. I'm no RRD expert, but I don't think you need to worry very much about plants close by "catching" the disease. If the wind blew the mites off of the roses that got RRD, it probably blew those tiny, tiny critters half-way into the next county, not a couple feet away to the next rose. At least in my garden, the roses near by the infected rose never exhibited RRD symptoms. The next year when another rose came down with RRD, it was way on the other side of the back yard. Same thing with the third year when a third rose broke out in symptoms--way far away from the two previous ones. I don't know where my disease-causing mites are blowing in from since I live in the middle of a small town, but I'm assuming it is from the wild stuff growing outside of town, not from other roses in my garden--since I immediately get rid of any infected rose in my garden. As the other posters noted, spraying will not help the problem. As upsetting as RRD is, I think you should just go ahead with your garden plans, assuming everything will be all right--since there is not much you can do about RRD other than destroying the infected plants. Good luck. Kate...See MoreHeirloom Roses: Your experience/views/verdict?
Comments (52)I don't agree Rosefolly. VID or VI are terms, I believe, for roses indexed at UC Davis. The Florida Southern program does not use that terminology (according to what Malcolm Manners has posted on the web). There is at least one other program that does testing at least (is it Washington State??? I forget). Do they use the VI or VID labeling? Also, if a nursery has all their roses indexed, does that mean each rose must have an individual indicator label on it? And if so, why should they use Davis' terminology if the rose didn't go through the Davis system? Pickering virus indexes their roses but they have no VI or VID shown on individual plants in their online catalog. What about nurseries that received plants from more than one virus treatment program? List the Davis-sourced ones with VI and what then for the others? What about nurseries that didn't get some treated and/or indexed roses direct from the organization that had the program? Should these indirect sources be trusted that the rose really did go through a particular system (not necessarily which one is even listed as is the case sometimes with Vintage)??? But as to what you've received, with virus symptoms from Heirloom, I would ask you which rose (s) was it? And secondly when (what year approximatley)? I think this matters and is actually important to know. Was it last year, 5 years ago, 20 years ago or? Heirloom was beginning their rose mosaic virus program back in the early 1990s, and what they were doing was right there described in their catalog. Just like with any company that has a warranty on a product, that doesn't mean that the product can never have a problem, what is important is what the company does about the failures, not only as to a replacement, but also how they work to prevent them in the future. I give high marks to companies that make the effort to improve their products, and also to those that disclose how they are doing so. Heirloom I feel should be praised for taking on a huge task (with so many US roses infected with rmv), at no doubt considerable expense, when many others chose to do little or nothing (even when the market was booming). That means that various rose nurseries let places like Heirloom do the heavy lifting and bear the burden of cost of testing/treatment, while they could sit back and rest on their laurels. I think it is really unfair to criticize a business that has actively sought to produce only rose mosaic free roses when this criticism benefits the nurseries that didn't help. I have to wonder if more nurseries had a policy, decades ago, such as Heirloom's that many more roses would now be in commerce rose mosaic virus free. There could have been cooperation with one nursery testing/treating a particular rose or roses and another nursery doing others. I think if this had happened, the rose-growing public would have benefitted and become more educated. I think there would be less acceptance of virused roses and in general healthier, longer-lived roses on the market. As we've heard, from Malcolm Manners and others, roses that are clear of rmv perform better than those that are infected. How much of the difficulty in various parts of the country have gardeners had because they've bought virused roses and then been disappointed at the lack of vigor or extra care required? What about replacements needed? If sickly roses are the starting point, will people continue to buy a faulty product? Just IMHO but I think the lack of wide scale participation of rose nurseries in rmv programs has been a contributing factor in the loss of popularity of the rose as a garden plant. Melissa...See MoreDoes anyone grow Heirloom's OGR-like roses?
Comments (13)I'm glad to hear that you like it. They say that it is 'very fragrant' and makes a 3.5X3.5foot bush on the site. Let me know if your mileage varies. Would also be curious as to how it compares with the more fragrant of the Austins. I've gotten a bit lazy with respect to worrying about disease or winter hardiness with the Austins as most of their more recent introductions seem fine here without winter protection (all zone 5 hardy) or spraying, as long as I don't care about a little blackspot appearing from time to time. Never seems to slow them down, so I don't worry about it. However, I don't know if these issues are more of a concern in these other roses (Heirloom/Meilland) or if they are similar. I'd been concerned about the Meilland roses being less winter-hardy, but I'm not sure if that's the case. These Heirloom ones all list as zone 5 hardy, so I assume I'd be okay. Anyway, at some point maybe best to just go for it and add a couple to the garden mix....See MoreQuestion about heirloom roses
Comments (29)Holly, thanks for posting the email for Classy Roses. They don't list the email on the website, just the phone number, and I can rarely get the time in the day to call so it doesn't get done. They are taking the opposite approach of deliberately hunting down roses that aren't offered elsewhere to offer as well as taking custom orders. For that kind of uniqueness, I'm happy to pay premium prices, and I was happy to pay whatever was reasonable for our dearly departed Vintage and Uncommon Roses. Paul, thanks for reminding us about the multiple costs involved in running a rose business that have to be passed along to the consumer in some way. I remember Paul Zimmerman at Ashdown posting an analysis of why his shipping costed what it did and how he didn't even break even on the shipping costs, and that's useful information to have when making decisions. The added personnel and storage costs of producing the gallons however makes Heirloom's decision even more puzzling to me. Why sink twice as much time, energy, and storage into producing the gallons for 2 years when they can move out inventory more quickly within one year at more industry standard pricing if they continue to produce bands? If a propagated rose doesn't sell, that's yet more non-returned expense sunk into that gallon if it sits around, and bigger pots to store and maintain as well. I do have a rose or two that's available that I'll probably pay their premium gallon prices for, but that doesn't make sense for the run-of-the-mill varieties for me. Incidentally, Heirloom is having a sale of up to 30% off selected roses (6 pages of roses) that clearly are the band plants they're moving out of their inventory. These are quite reasonably priced if you get beyond the $50 free shipping - I ordered 5 roses and stayed under $100 for the total bill. If we want to make the argument that band plants are viable products for Heirloom, we can speak with our wallets while the bands are still available. Cynthia...See Morejim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
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8 years agoJasminerose, California, USDA 9b/Sunset 18
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoMichaela (Zone 5b - Iowa)
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8 years agoJasminerose, California, USDA 9b/Sunset 18
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