two of the worst trees known to mankind .. IMHO ...

from the that guys garden site who has been blocked by GW ... two comments regarding the chinese pistache:

1. This plant was highly promoted for landscapes over the past 30 years. It is now becoming a severely invasive, foreign pest in central Texas. It should be banned.

and this one:

2. The Chinese Pistache tree was planted in parking strips along residential areas in the City of San Jose, Ca in the 1970's. These trees provide great shade in the hot summer. The female tree produces huge amounts of berries. The birds nest and eat and poop purple all over the street and vehicles parked under them. The male trees produce huge pollen clusters in the Spring. The Fall leaf color is spectacular however.

The problem is the full grown tree is an accident waiting to happen. The wood is a very soft type that will easily snap or break off large (6 inch diameter or larger) limbs. They have been doing this for the past few years during very hot spells where the temperatures are in the mid to high 90's for several days. Most fall onto the sidewalks or street parking spaces.

Several trees are also toppling over due to apparent root rot. All this without any apparent warning. They just start leaning over and will crush any vehicle they fall over onto.

Finally, the mature trees send out horizontal roots that lift sidewalks and will extend under the streets and lift the curbs.

===>>> you would do her a greater favor by finding her good trees for her project ...

ken

check out this link also.. pdf

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

I agree with Ken, your friend's selections seem like choices made by someone likely unfamiliar with those trees for use in that part of the country.

However, if your friend has their mind made up, many many nurseries sell those trees (and various cultivars of each). Since I hope the selections are not the final choice I didn't send time looking for multiple sources. I do, however, know that ForestFarm (which has an excellent Garden Watchdog rating) currently sells both types.

Roselee, where in Texas?

I wouldn't touch Silver maple. They grow fast then falls apart whenever a strong thunderstorm blows through every spring here in Dallas area.

Ken posted a link to that website from Austin not to plant Chinese Pistache... That's interesting. A lot of people still recommend it so who knows?

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm sending them on to my friend who has several acres on sandy soil S. E. of San Antonio. She has a lot of oaks on the property that are dying of some disease, they are not live oaks and it's not oak wilt; but I don't remember what it is, but there is no cure. Right now she is happy to see a few hackberry trees come up in the open spaces left where the oaks died.

I heard back from my friend. She has one Chinese pistache on her property already, loves it, and wants another one.

She used to work in a nursery so is well versed in trees and their qualities.

She is very busy in a different line of work now and doesn't have time to do research to find the trees on the net. So if anyone knows a nursery that will ship both varieties she is interested in please let me know.

I do appreciate your advice. Thank you so much.

I asked my friend what kind of oaks she had and what disease was killing them. I thought some of you might be interested in her reply.

"I have post oaks and black jack oaks growing here natively. HUNDREDS of them as you know!The hypozylon cancer fungus (spelling?) is what is taking them out. I've planted 2 Live Oaks and they are fine.

"Drought is considered to be an irritant. That said, ALL MY BIG ONES were in the yard and watered. So, I do not buy that. I know a stressed plant is in for trouble but I lost some major big ones that were watered.

"Per the ext. offices the disease is hitting San Antonio oaks as well, and not just Guadalupe county. Some friends of mine with more $ than me hired a tree specialist to come and cut theirs down. $1000 or so a tree for big ones! He said it is allllllllll over! I see it everywhere now.

"The bark falls off the tree and lands on the ground right below the trunk, once advanced. If you see this, followed by leaf drop, etc.............you got it. It takes awhile for the trees to die completely. NO CURE! Right in there with oak wilt, maybe worse."

Try Mexican White Oak tree. Possibly Loquat oak tree as well.
Canby Oak...

My brother bought some from this nursery - http://www.rennerwood.com/nursery/availability-list.dot

Here is a link that might be useful: Hypoxylon Canker

More details on hypoxylon canker.

It definitely sounds like drought related problems.

Here is a link that might be useful: hypoxylon canker

Thanks for the links.

Even though they were watered it could be the big oaks her yard were damaged and made susceptible to hypoxylon canker by the construction of the house 10 or 12 years ago.

roselee,
Here is another link for you. It's showing up in our area too, and our drought was not nearly as bad. she is likely to continue to lose trees to it for at least another couple years.

Arktrees

Here is a link that might be useful: Hypoxylon Canker

Why doesn't your friend just go down to the local nursery and ask them to pick out a few nice selections for her? It's unlikely (although admittedly possible) that they would select any worse choices for their recommendations, and the nursery stock trees would probably be bigger, and in better shape, for the money compared to mail-order plants. Even better, she could call the local extension office and ask them for suggestions. I'd bet they could give her MANY much better recommendations.

I checked ForestFarm again, and it appears that they are not carrying any silver maples currently (I think they did previously). They do have 'Keith Davey' though, which is a pretty decent selection of MALE Chinese Pistache, and, many good choices for that area.

Below is a link to a selection guide that might be helpful. All you have to do is put in Bexar County, and make the desired selections (such as available space for the tree, deciduous/evergreen, etc). You don't have to make choices for every category.

Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Tree Selector

I am about to plant two Keith Davey's myself and am surprised they are so highly recommended by some reputable sources in Texas while at the same time being listed as noxious and invasive by others. I also got my KD from forest farm and the grafts don't look the greatest to my eyes.

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By jp_42_82 at 2012-01-11

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By jp_42_82 at 2012-01-11

Now silvers, I would never plant myself but that is ALL the neighbors have planted since I moved here. And a couple callery pear cultivars...

Yeah, those grafts don't look so great. Looks like they needed another year of growth to make sure they took IMHO. Those are certainly 1 year grafts, which sometimes fail. With that said, they will probable be fine. Be careful about stuff leafing out to soon from them. They are in a MUCH milder climate, and allot of it looks like it's kept in green houses too. The net result is that they are at risk of budding too soon, especially this year since it's so mild.

Arktrees

On big properties in the midwest silver maples have their place. Just don't put them where they will be difficult to remove or over anything other than grass.

Again, thanks for all the interesting and helpful comments. My friend does has a lot of room to play around with. She has twelve acres enclosed with deer proof fencing with trails and special vignettes with seating and memorial plantings throughout. She is a very experienced gardener with many years experience and has done quite a bit of research on trees. As mentioned above she has one Chinese pistache and likes it. She wants to play around with silver maples just for fun.

Incidentally, she planted some Mexican White Oaks which she got from a special source and she feels they are the 'real thing' and not mixed.

The original question remains: CAN ANYONE POINT TO A RELIABLE SOURCE THAT SELLS BARE ROOT CHINESE PISTACHE AND SILVER MAPLE? Or if that's not a possibility then separately. She'd prefer them bare root and shipped together to cut down on costs. She would prefer to have tree nursery recommendations from you all rather than taking a shot in the dark.

Many thanks!

Don't know about bare root, but if she is REALLY set on these, then seed might be the way to go. Silver Maple seed in spring and the seeds come up immediately. They grow VERY fast in good conditions. Chinese Pastiche seed are easily found on the internet, and I have grown some myself. They are very easy and can grow at least a couple feet the first season. Gave some to a friend that is on a tough site, and one of them grew to about 7' in the second growing season.

Arktrees

Ark brings up a good point. I had some silvers that seeded into my flowerbed go from 3-4' the first year. Now they were in good mulched soil and watered fairly often but they are some of the fastest growing native trees around.

Can't speak for pistache but they sure are hard to locate bare root on the internet. In containers they are pretty abundant. If bare rooting is desired, why not buy a small size and wash off the potting mix and bare root it that way?

Here is a link that might be useful: Silver maple

I love people who jump on the OMG bandwagon and ban something that is wonderful like the Texas Superstar Chinese Pistache Tree. If you call the nurseries here that do organic gardening, they will all say that it is evenly divided now on whether it is considered "invasive" or not. The city of Austin has taken the better part of valor stance and banned them until... you watch and wait..... a few years from now they will say, "oops. It's NOt Invasive after all". In the meantime.. nothing grows as fast, provides as much shade, is drought and freeze tolerant and as gorgeous in the Fall as this tree is. So plant it AWAY from your house foundation and love it for all of it's SuperStar qualities.

A Post Script to the wonderfulness of the Chinese Pistache and the drama surrounding it. I am a Texas native and a Master Gardener who transplanted to Northern Calif. for 24 years and now have returned to Central Texas for the last 12. In Calif. the "Scotch Broom" and the "Acacia" are both considered "invasive". You can still buy them at any nursery and out here in Austin at the Great Outdoors Nursery they sing their praises as the most wonderful additions to your garden. I just laugh. It just goes to show you, one persons weed (Iowans consider orange daylilies a weed) is anothers great addition.

Tiquer,

Your analysis, on the subject of whether Pistacia chinensis is invasive, seems to lack some experience, at least about how things like this are thought out. The species is invasive, and that's a simple fact. HOWEVER, the species is nowhere near as invasive as many other species (i.e. it's relatively mildly invasive, on average, in Texas). The reason I say your analysis seems to indicate a lack of experience is because this exaggeration, one way and the other, is pretty common with mildly invasive species. They are bad, but not terrible. Some people choose to emphasis the view they feel needs pushed and have a hard time accepting that something can be gray a world they see in more black and white terms.

Would I choose this tree if I lived in Texas...no way. There's just too many much better alternatives. Would I loose sleep, if someone else chose to plant it, because I thought it was a serious enough environmental issue to deserve great attention...no way.

I could sweep up a few 55 gal. drums full of silver maple seeds next May and send them down!

Now I tell you true, up until a few years ago when I cut down the largest silver maple in this city, which occupied my back yard, the snow shovel was my tool of choice for those seeds which landed on my driveway. The tree was....how you say....fecund!

+oM