Mme. Antoine Rebe, Arcadia Louisiana Tea Catherine Mermet Devoniensis Etoile de Lyon La Pactole Lady Hillington Mlle. de Sombreuil Mme. [Actually General] De Tartas Rosette Delizy

Are all roses which are either very good or at least promising in my garden.
But that's probably little help to you, as our climates are so different.
Some of the others mentioned are NOT good here -- but that doesn't mean they might not be great for you.

Jeri

Yes, my error in the General vs Mme. I probably have some misspelled also. My spelling isn't much better than my typing.

Jeri, I loved Arcadia Louisiana Tea and Mlle de Sombreuil the first year in my garden. They were both favorites that I bragged about on the forum; however, they just didn't adjust to my climate going from hot to cold and wet to dry. Those are two that I really wish I could grow. Maybe someone from my climate will say whether they can grow them.

I tried Devoniensis and Lady Hillington both as bushes and running roses...lost all four. I think General De Tartas was mislabled so I may not have lost the real gentleman.

It will be interesting to see who can grow these in my climate.

The one generally in commerce in the U.S. as Mme de Tartas seems to be the General.
I'm not sure the true Mme. is actually available here.
Whatever we call it tho -- it's a lovely thing here.

OTOH, I am surprised you've had problems with them.
Teas were the backbone of gardens in your area, in the 19th Century.
Get ahold of the CD copy of "EVERBLOOMING ROSES," by Georgia Torrey Drennan.
I'm pretty sure she lived in your area until the late 1860's, when she relocated to NOLA.

Jeri.

What happened to your 'Safrano'?
I finally saw that rose (at the Fort Worth Botanical Garden).
It was in bloom, and the color of the buds was very unique, the foliage beautiful ... I fell for it immediately. I want one some day.

Randy

I was wondering about Safrano too. That one is usually bullet proof in the southeast.

Sandy

Jean, it is so good to have you back and talking roses with us again. We have really missed you.

I have or do grow quite a few of those on your list. Alliance Franco Russe is a good rose for me, perhaps the best yellow tea. I love Lady Hillingdon's beautifully delicate lemon sherbet dollop bloom but mine have been very slow to grow and pale in comparison when it comes to size with other teas.

My DH moved Pearl des Jardin at the wrong time and to a bad place (because of it, no excuse for him) and it died. I have Safrano, so I am not saying I need a PdJ since I have it.

The only one on your list (I adore it) that I worry about is the Tipsy Imperial Concubine. So many people have had such great success with that one, but mine was not very hardy and I lost it in (I think) its third season with me. Having said that, I also lost Ophelia (a neighbor to it)that same year. When I ordered my Ophelia, I ordered one for my friend, and hers is still alive and doing well, so it could have been "just one of those things," or mine had more exposure than hers.

Jean, just thinking about you losing these roses makes me wonder if you have nematodes and might need to grow the teas on Fortuniana. I know there are some areas of your state where rosegrowers experience the nematode problem. I wish Dr. Manners would speak to that. This could be useful information for you in the future for purchasing roses. Ann knows more about the Mississippi-Louisiana areas than I do, for sure. I wonder if she would have some input about that as well.

Just to be sure, are they in the sun and with good drainage? How's the soil? What vendors did they come from, and how big were they when they came; how did you start them? While I'm in zone 8, my roses definitely have both cold and heat, wet and dry, and have no trouble at all with that; still, my climate is definitely different. What roses, and what kinds of roses, ARE doing well for you? I apologize if I'm asking questions that insult your competence as a rose grower, but that's an impressive list.

'Safrano', 'Isabella Sprunt', and 'Clementina Carbonieri' are all tough plants in my garden. People in the U.S. don't seem to like Isabella as much as its sport parent 'Safrano'. They seem identical to me except for the color of the flowers, equally tough and sharing a mild susceptibility to mildew. I adore Isabella's elegant pale lemon yellow blooms against the wine red new foliage: it's a lovely combination of colors. These roses are all own root, by the way.

Did your roses die in similar fashion, or did they perish at different times and under different circumstances?

Good luck!

Melissa

Jean,

I cannot speak to your list of roses. I do have a few that you mention but they are new to me this spring....but let me just say that it is good to see you posting again. you have been missed!

:o)

Ronda

Try Perle D'Or, Carefree Beauty, or BR Cant.

The one's that have grown well for me are:
Clementina- huge bush with beautiful blooms
Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne-bigger blooms, lovely color
Devoniensis- took a while to establish but has finally made a decent size bush. The fragrance is worth the wait.
Lady Hillingdon- beautiful, healthy bush and I love the foliage color against the blooms.
Rosette Delizy- also slow to establish but has lovely blooms and healthy foliage
TIC- healthy bush, repeat is slower but the blooms are gorgeous
Thomasville Old Gold- has suffered with PM rather badly but it has only been here two years and I'm giving it time to see if that improves. If not, it will not stay here.
Catherine Mermet- strong canes, pretty blooms. Mine grows more like an old HT but it is young.
Arcadia Louisiana Tea- still a baby but the blooms are very pretty.

I have some of the others but they were new last year and are growing out in pots until they attain some size and I really don't know them well enough to judge them yet.

Carol

Hi Jean,

From your list the ones I grow that I would definitely replace are:
Safrano and Isabella Sprunt (simple but healthy workhorses for my garden)
Rosette Delizy (gets tall so had to prune once established to see those lovely but smallish bicolor blooms)
Arcadia LA Tea (took 4 seasons to really establish but so gorgeous)
Alliance Franco Russe (such a lovely yellow, my established bush has survived neglect, hard pruning, relocation...and still keeps ticking)
Clementina Carbonieri (she is so healthy, fragrant blooms with unusual blend of colors)

I would not keep Blumenschidmt (Fran Kruger, Svr. Elise Vardon sp?, Abricottee, Sunset are similar but without the tendency for the vegetative center here)

Most of these have been the garden 10 + years, hot muggy mid GA in semi amended red clay.

Lisa

It is so good to read messages from all my old rose friends. It is amazing on this forum how you really feel a friendship with people you have never seen. Of course, it was a pleasure when I did get to meet some of you. I really enjoyed going to the rose gatherings. I never made it to California to meet any of that group, but have always wanted to make the trip.

Okay, let me see if I can remember what happened to some of these roses. Remember, I was having an anit-rose season last year so I was acting like the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland with her, "Off with their heads" comments and actions. As an excuse for my behavior I was hyper-thyroid on synthroid, I got a bad deal out of the overseas order, then I got a bunch of mislabeled roses from my favorite vender who admited I got roses bought from a second vender and probably were mislabeled but never appeared too concerned. Some of the roses came in a late fall (November) shipment and didn't get established before winter. Then to top all that off, we had a lousy spring and summer for roses.

Patricia, I never though about nematodes because the roses all seemed to have different circumstances and roses next door to them did well. I will do some reading to make sure I haven't missed watching for nematodes in a rose with a problem.

At least 50% of my loss is likely my fault. I took the approach that I wanted only roses that grew with little care and frankly would have turned the garden back to pasture grass except for DH. How glad I am he sided with the rose garden because the roses that survived my brutal treatment are looking great this spring.

Angels Camp Tea --grew to about four feet, but got severe winter damage.
Alexander Hill Gray---maybe lack of water and care
Alliance Franco Russe ---maybe lack of water and care
Antoine Rebe died as a band
Arcadia Louisiana---beautiful, but couldn't handle the winter
Blumenschmidt---healthy, but had green centers and I needed the space
Catherine Mermet----just looked puny compared to neighbors
Clementian Carbonieri--moved and probably didn't get water
Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne---don't remember--just died young
Devoniensis---pampered and died anyway
Etoile de Lyon---didn't handle winter
Frances Grates Tea---didn't handle winter--blackspot
Freiherr Von Marschal --just slow an puny
Isabella Sprunt ----too much blackspot
La Pactole---pampered and died anyway
La Sylphide---I had two one white blooms and one pink--blackspot proned, didn't know real name--just removed them
Lady Hillington---a band that just never got more than a foot tall, had winter damage
Miss Atwood---loved this rose, got too much winter damage
Mme de Sombreuil-- loved this rose, got too much winter damage
Mme. De Tartas ---never got started
Perle des Jardin---never got started
Rosette Delizy ---never got started
Safrano --blackspot
Second Street Tea ----too much winter dead
Souvenir de Victor Hugo ---don't remember
Susan Louise --winter died, came back from roots never took off, may have been mislabeled.
Thomasville Old Gold---winter damage
Tipsy Imperial Cocumbine---moved and died

Jean -

I believe I have grown every rose on this list. Some of our problem stems from the source of the rose, some of it from late freezes and some of it from rose contrariness.

Angels Camp Tea - this is a nice rose. Not huge, but healthy here. I liked it, but doubt I would fall all over myself to get it again.

Alexander Hill Gray - this one is tender. I liked it and it had lovely fragrance, but it's color never looked that great in my garden as it was consistently bleached out.

Alliance Franco Russe - nice big yellow, but I like Le Pactole better.

Antoine Rebe - extremely healthy, hardy and prolific. Screaming hooker pink blooms semi double. I gave mine away because it just did not thrill me.

Arcadia Louisiana - this one was a dud for me.

Blumenschmidt - muddled blooms with vegetative centers, but when it gave me a great bloom, it was perfect.

Catherine Mermet - beauitful, pale pink and tender, but I'll take Mme. Falcot over it.

Clementian Carbonieri - would not be without it. Ever.

Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne - I killed this one in its first year, so cannot really say a whole lot about it.

Devoniensis - my favorite ivory rose of all time. Hardy and healthy.

Etoile de Lyon - nice, but again, Le Pactole thrilled me more.

Frances Grates Tea a nice pink tea and fairly healthy for me.

Freiherr Von Marschal - this one never did anything for me, but I have had trouble on occasion with bands from Vintage. All of them died that year and I am not sure what I did.

Isabella Sprunt - a solid performing rose here.

La Pactole - another not to be without for me.

La Sylphide - healthy, happy and huge. Love it. Mine came from Vintage.

Lady Hillington - a great yellow rose in a color not found elsewhere. You should have it again.

Miss Atwood - lovelty and healthy and also a copy of another rose in my garden whose real name escapes me at the moment.

Mme de Sombreuil - aka La Biche. Healthy and pretty and a short climber. Nice rose.

Mme. De Tartas - this one is really nice and I like it. It is a fairly big rose for me and grows quite wide.

Perle des Jardin - a dud for me. Always balled and not much to look at IMHO.

Rosette Delizy - love this rose. Huge and happy and vibrant.

Safrano - the peach version of Isabella Sprunt. Healthy and happy here and huge.

Second Street Tea - this one I grew at my old house, but it was not all that riveting. Healthy though. Small blooms.

Susan Louise - very tender and hard to grow here successfully. All that gigantea in its ancestry. Huge and fast growing.

Thomasville Old Gold - I loved the colors, but not enough to make me want to put up with a stingy unattractive plant.

Tipsy Imperial Concubine - I loved the fragrance which is divine. It is very prone to blackspot and the blooms tend to ball. I will not grow it again in this neck of the woods.

Jean

Blumenschmidt---healthy, but had green centers and I needed the space (I think this is normal for Freddy Kruger and Bschmidt, to have the occasional or more frequent green centers).

Alexander Hill Gray---maybe lack of water and care (Try another one -- mine is planted on the side of the fence by my neighbor and never gets any care and it is very nice plant; maybe lack of care here provides for good growth and bloom, not sure).

Lady Hillington---a band that just never got more than a foot tall, had winter damage (I have this rose from 2 different people and had it started from a band, I am sure it would be gone now, it's just not what I see from other growers in my garden. Although it has an occasional gorgeous bloom, it's just not worth the real estate). I put LaBiche in its stead.
Mme de Sombreuil-- loved this rose, got too much winter damage I would have just cut it back to the ground and kept on going, we cut everything back this year to 18 inches except big climbers.
Tipsy Imperial Cocumbine---moved and died. I am not shocked. Very tender and does not want to be moved around.

I grow Isabella Sprunt. It is a sport of Safrano. One of my favorite yellow teas. You might have better luck with Mrs Dudley Cross or Maricel Niel. Clotilde Soupert works better for my garden than Sombreuil. There's always polyanthas and knockouts.

Hi Jean. It's so good to hear from you. I think part of your problems last year were due to the unusual drought we had in MS. This along with the heavy BS pressure we have played havoc with my roses too but I'm hoping for bigger and better things this year.
I had Blumenschmidt but it reverted back to MFK and I already had one of those and one was enough. When she is good, she is great but I too hate those vegetative centers.
Safrano and Isabella Sprunt are both good roses here but I do spray.
Listen to Carol, Clemmentina Carbonieri is a great rose. Pretty healthy too.
I have a Lady Hillingdon that is in its second year from a rooted cutting. It's about 3 feet tall and healthy as a horse. Maybe you just got a dud.
Rosette Delizy is doing great. It was just a band last spring and about 3 feet tall now and full. Thrips do love her about as much as I do.

Avidly reading all the remarks on these roses, as I am both new to teas and relatively new to the south-- lived in Dallas before here both times near edge of Z7. I have never seen winter damage, not even on Mermaid or Fortune's Double Yellow. OTOH have not had 3 consecutive days in mid 20's or less here so it may still happen. All I am doing to winter-protect is mounding mulch around the base. On to the topic!
Lady Hillingdon-- have had 1 plant from ARE and 1 from RU. Has been smaller than other teas (Duchesse, Monsieur T) but healthy and good repeat. I love the elegance of Lady H.
Rosette Delizy-- planting it this year & looking forward to it!
I'd be very happy to get Devoniensis, Clementina Carbonieri, Isabella Sprunt, Le Pactole-- keep hearing good reports about them. Do let us know which ones you decide to give a second chance!!!!
Both Dallas and SE VA get very hot very fast & most of my roses have been spring-planted. I've never had any rose do anything but thrive. I've never received anything but perfect, wonderful plants from ARE, Countryside, and RU. I've never lost an own-root rose-- but then, I've never tried to grow a band at least not in about 30 years!

Jean, forgot to say that I am so glad that you are going to come back and replant and try again. I've moved so much it's completely taken care of trial and error, and there's a lot of BOTH in growing roses. A kennel club friend once said, "I give all mine the best, so I don't hang on to a mean ugly dog. They don't deserve me!". Think that goes for roses. You should grow what makes your heart sing!