Hmmm, looks somewhat like Louis Philippe.

It's difficult to say whether these are rose leaves, but the Chinese very rarely painted roses on porcelain, since it was not one of their favorite cultivated flowers such as peonies and chrysanthemums. They were very common in villages and by the roadside and might not have been considered special enough to be given much notice, especially for imperial-quality china, which was permitted to be used only by the emperor and his court.

Ingrid

Maybe Rosa moyesii? That sure looks like a R moyesii rose hip above the single red flowers. I love the way roses lovers see roses everywhere. What fun, Ann!

Ingrid, even though it's rare, do you collect any Chinese porcelain with roses? (Peonies sure are gorgeous, too.) I read somewhere that a rose resembling Old Blush is painted on a 2000 yr old piece.

Carol

Ingrid- Would it make sense to have the rose on that cup since it's portraying a barnyard scene? I'm guessing a farmer would be more likely to have a rose than a peony or a chrysanthemum.

Better angle if the "rose:"

Subk's find shows what looks like a hip.

I have an feel that this was a bonsai rose, except the Chinese invented bonsai and their had a different feel than 'modern' bonsai that mostly follows Japanese rules.

The massive base looks to me like an old rose that's pushing out flowers as it is able.

For a look at Chinese penjing, this link looks good. I've only just begun to go through it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinese Penjing Portal Page

The blogger Ferrebeekeeper suggests that this seemingly mundane scene could be an oblique reference to domestic intrigue in the imperial household.

Interesting, too -- and hard to wrap one's mind around -- that this refined and beautiful rooster cup was made only about 100 years after the appearance in Europe of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, which coincidentally includes the mock-heroic one of the rooster Chanticleer (animal tales a world-wide phenomenon, possibly going back to India?).

Here is a link that might be useful: The Chenghua Chicken Cup

This post was edited by monarda on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 0:34

It does have the nodding charm and loose, peony shape of the old Chinese roses (teas?), such as "White Pearl in Dragon's Mouth" (if that is old) or the more recent Comtesse du Cayla, a hybrid.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:250708}}

I like anntn's theory: an old china rose pushing out growth from an ancient gnarled stump.

What looks like a gnarled, massive base to the rose may very well be a rock formation, similar to many I've seen on Chinese porcelain, which look rather different from what we would imagine rocks to be.

Carol, I looked at my porcelain collection and saw only two definite depictions of roses. However, when the Chinese began to export porcelain to Europe and the U.S. they began to adapt their style to what they thought the "devil foreigners" would like and began to copy flowers from European porcelain manufacturers, especially Meissen in Germany, who became famous for their "Deutsche Blumen" (German flowers) which included roses. Export ware from the 1700's on did include roses, but for their own uses the Chinese paid the rose scant attention. Still, the bush on this old and very famous cup does seem to represent roses. The Chinese were very fond of symbolism and many flowers and animals (which famously include dragons, which were revered) were symbolic of certain qualities, and that probably includes the rooster and chickens, although I don't know what that would be (big gaps in my knowledge of Chinese porcelain, which is an incredibly complex field).

Ingrid

The blogger Ferrebeekeper referenced above, summarizes the design on the cup this way:

"A bold rooster struts vainly through a garden of prayer stones and red flowers while a pragmatic hen snatches up bugs with her beak. Around the pair is a little flock of endearing chicks. The scene is almost exactly copied on the opposite side."

He continues:

"The cup was made in the Ming dynasty during the reign of Emperor Chenghua (1447-1487). Emperor Chenghua was the father of the renowned and righteous Hongzhi Emperor whose reign was a high water mark for the Ming. The story of Emperor HongzhiâÂÂs boyhood however is one of terror and fear. The young crown prince was nearly snuffed out by the infamous Lady Wan, an imperial concubine of Emperor Chenghua who tried to consolidate power by surreptitiously killing off all of the emperorâÂÂs male heirs (and all of his other favorite concubines to boot). The turmoil and corruption at court spread far and wide."

Ferrebeekeeper has no doubt Hongzhi's traumatic boyhood played a part in his decision, unique among Chinese emperors, to be a faithful husband of only one wife. Unfortunately, Hongzhi's heir turned out to be a bad ruler, as sometimes happens with the sons of virtuous princes (vide Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius and his son Commodus). He is delighted to think that the flowers may depict a long lost Ming rose.

As for myself, having learned a bit more about their historical and cultural background, I will now look upon the China roses with renewed interest and respect.

On further research the flower on the cup is indeed a rose and the blue object in front of it is, as I thought, a rock formation.

Ingrid

Perhaps the rock formations are "prayer stones". According to wikipedia, if I read it correctly, Chinese Penjing consisted originally of dwarf trees, grasses, and stones, representing and mirroring the landscape in simplified form. The later, more austere Japanese form of zen Buddhism distilled this further into a single (bonsai) tree alone, standing as a symbol for the entire universe.

Ingrid, thank you for the info. I'll have to return to some of your previous posts with photos of your porcelain. Really lovely and the symbolism is fascinating! Carol

Monarda, I had a "thank you" to you typed into my response, but that piece of my reply somehow failed to make it into the text. iPads! Anyway, thank you for the research and summary. Very interesting! Carol