Looks as though you have one of those lovely old California bungalows. Am I right? One of my favorite kinds of houses.

I am in the Bay Area, not SoCal, but most of those sound to me like perfect selections. The only one I would hesitate on is RdV. Is that Reine des Violettes? It is truly a lovely rose, and I tried growing it here, but it was chlorotic and lacked vigor in my alkaline soil. Not all California soils are alike, but it is something to be aware of. Still it might be worth the experiment. When it is good, it is glorious.

Rosefolly

Reine des Violettes,� really doesn't like alkaline soil, so if yours is (which it probably is), you'll have to amend, or keep it in a pot. Mine suffered for 2 years in the ground and is now thriving in a pot�

I have Archduke Charles, it's DEVINE. Mine is about a year or two old, so I can't really talk about growth speed, etc.

I don't have experience with the other ones that much. :)

Thanks Aimee,

I had read Jeri's posting about Reine des Violettes not liking the soil. I have lots of places I could keep her in a pot-I have a vintage horse water trough that would look good with her in it, but I am planing on seriously amending that whole bed! Guessing all of the soil is too alkaline (gray water use for a long time) And it is only slightly softer than the sidewalk. But the SB Daisy love it!

I had the lovely Monsieur Tillier but it frizzled badly in the sun so a location with afternoon shade would probably be ideal. I know it's not on your list but Belinda's Dream is very happy in a hot, sunny location and has huge pink, fragrant blooms. I have two of them.

Ingrid

Kippy -- I love your list.
I can tell you very little about prickles, because to be honest, I don't pay much attention to them.

IMHO, in THIS area, Archduke Charles is a "must-have."
If you have 100 or so years to wait, it CAN (if allowed) get up to 5-6 ft., but in an average lifetime, it might make 4 ft. Wonderful rose here.

As Folly reminds you, Reine des Violettes will need some protection from alkaline conditions.

I wish it were possible for you to get to the Sacramento City Cemetery sale, because I see that they are offering "Forest Ranch Pom-Pom," probably a Damask Perpetual, and of very similar coloring. The big difference is that it has far better tolerance of alkaline conditions. I don't believe it is thornless, but it's not "armored."

I agree with Ingrid that Mons. Tillier can shrivel in heat -- but in OUR part of Southern California, the problem is limited to those times when the SantaAna/Sundowner winds blow. The rest of the time, he will be a joy for you.

"Benny Lopez" will be a champ for you -- but his canes are armored with a plethora of tiny prickles, in the Damask style. Not big, hooked things, just lots of little ones.

Niles and White Maman are almost perfect. You may find that in dank foggy weather, the blooms do not open well, but I can tolerate that. And as our weather gets warmer and dryer, they seem to open better and better.

Jeri

Jeri,

I would LOVE to go to Sac, I even have friends camping not too far away that I was invited for the trip.

But, mom has cataract surgery scheduled with a bunch of tests and stuff for this next week. She hates the doctors office as is and really stressed about the surgery, even though it is a quick and minor procedure. At 88 she depends on me, so this would be a bad time to go and I doubt she is up for a road trip....

!Que lastima! Well, another time. And I hope her surgery is uneventful, and fruitful.

Jeri

Kippy, put your RdV in the ground where she'll be MUCH happier and productive, but amend the soil heavily with oak leaf mold, peat moss, Camellia/Azalea mix, whatever you have to acidify it for the long haul so it won't suffer chlorosis due to the alkalinity of the water and existing soil. Acidifying the soil with something that lasts many years, then amending it with regular mulches, will keep the plant growing and happy for years. Oak leaf mold is great stuff and you should (hopefully) have access to it in that area. Camellia mix is a great thing to use to amend that planting hole, too. Peat moss can take up to ten years to break down in the soil. Adding more acidity with the oak leaves as mulch can help keep RdV and any others with similar pH issues happy for a very long time. Kim

Kim,

I have truck loads of well composted oak leaves...lol I am just happy to know I can dump some on the roses!

We have blueberries growing here too, top dressing with an acid mulch is going to be rather common. I hear coffee grounds work well. Because of the soil in this bed, I plan on doing a lot of digging. I have shovel dug and amended at least 1/4 acre in the past years, is does get easier! Even if I am getting older.

Jeri,

There are several roses in the Sac Catalog that I would love to have, hopefully next year they will have some interesting or similar roses and Mom will be up for the drive. I am hoping once she can see better, I can take her to Descanso and Huntington. I would love to sign up for the San Juan Bautista tour, but no idea how things will go so better not sign up for anything. Besides, I have a bunch of new garden books to read while sitting with mom in the yard.

Rosefolly,

It is an old house, I think it was the caretakers house to the large mansion that used to be next door. We think the house was built about 1890 in a sort of Queen Anne Cheap style, the mansion not so cheap. It might have been deep gray, white and pink trim as we found evidence of those colors. As a kid, the mansion had fallen in disrepair and was a giant hippy house. By the end of the 70's, hippies in SB was not a popular thing, and there was no effort to save the mansion from the bulldozers. Today, it would have been a precious historical building instead of a bunch of over watered non descript townhouses. Progress.

Kippy -- You don't have to sign up for the SJB "do." Just make a last-minute decision and go, if it works out like that. I hope it does. :-)

Jeri

Kippy, I am JEALOUS of your tons of oak leaf mold! Do you know how much that stuff used to sell for in two cubic foot bags before the Sudden Oak Death scare killed it as a viable gardening product? USE IT! It is "Manna from Heaven" for gardening. The only thing better is alfalfa based horse manure! Congratulations! Kim

Question on Grandmothers Hat and Reine Des Violettes

Is either of these two okay in a fairly shady zone? It gets morning and evening sun, but mid day is blocked in the late spring to early fall by the leaves on a giant plum tree

Is either one okay with a west facing wall that gets late day shade from the same plum tree?

Seems my dying hibiscus decided to hurry up and die and momma oriole is happy in her nest sitting on her eggs and being quiet so I can work in that bed for a few minutes at a time.

(White fly was the issue with the hibiscus and all evidence of both the hibiscus and white fly will be removed prior to moving roses-along with a nice bag of azalea soil added to acid up that area)

GramHat is fine with part-day sun.

We have it growing where it gets morning sun only, and where it gets afternoon sun only. It's fine, with either situation.

Jeri

Good to hear that Jeri, cause that is where I was leaning toward putting Grandmothers Hat in the shady area since the area is bigger and Grandma seems to really want to grow!

If you allow her to (we do) GramHat can be easily 7 ft., nicely upright, slightly spreading. You can, if you prefer, prune it down some. It's not at all "fussy."

I know you're going to love Archduke Charles, too. It's one of my faves, and you know, it's found in many old cemeteries. Not at all a fussy rose.

Jeri

Jeri,

Would Archduke Charles be okay in the similar afternoon shade for the summer location?

I measured the windows I would plant her under, 6.5 feet...I sure hope she can reach 7 feet!

I really like morning sun better than afternoon sun. The only time that's a problem is when we have one of those long stretches of foggy days. (We get less of that sort of weather all the time, now . . . )

And -- I think he can go 7 ft. -- it just may take him a while. :-)

Archduke Charles, in an old NoCal cemetery, where "care" is rather brutal, but there's lots of water.

{{gwi:249356}}

Jeri