Old Rose Forum Friend: New to SoCal Beach City. Help me choose!

bethr1957

15 years ago

Hello, again, friends. When my ex husband made me leave my home and 143 roses, I hadn't the heart to come on here. I lived for 18 long months, without a drop of dirt to plant in, then relocated to SoCal three weeks ago.

I WANT to plant! I took out my rose notebook, to select 10 species from my former glory. My first list was 40! That cannot happen, no room.

I have the list down to 20 roses now, have used sources to take out the black spot magnets; a problem I never had in Phoenix. So here are my choices. If some lovely California rosarians would make suggestions, I would be grateful. My criteria; scent (though I know a few of my choices do not have this), HT form and cuttability.

Salutations to the Web Master.

Beth

Pink

McCartney (I always loved my First Prize)

Peter Mayle (and the Romanticas)

Tiffany

Queen Margaurithe (however it is spelled)

Oranges

Super Star (Tropicana, I actually dug this one up from home. I bought it because the tag actually said Super Star.)

Voodoo

Dolly Parton or Fragrant Cloud

Just Joey (he can't have black spot, he doesn't have leaves!) Is he supposed to? But I trophied with him every time I had a right stage bloom. I could float him in a bowl, and he was so huge, the sides of the bowl would hold up his petals and hide the fact that the bloom was about to blow (lol).

Purple

Angel Face (if you tell me no on this one, I'll do it anyway, but I will be forewarned!)

Intrigue

Red

Ingrid Bergman

Black Magic

Rosie O'Donnell

Olympiad (this one was fabulous in Phoenix the first year, the second it turned into an octopus, and threw 10 ft high single blooms.)

Yellow

Saint Patrick

Midas touch or Mellow Yellow (in Phoenix, Mellow Yellow was the size of Mutabulis. If it will do that here, I can't have one)

Multi

Sheila's Perfume

Double Delight (no fighting now....)

Chicago Peace

So please help a friend. How shall I choose? What does well in the Beach Cities? I could put Intrigue and the Queen in pots. The Queen M might weep in a pot, that would be pretty. She hated Phoenix so much, I planted her under a tree, and she bloomed like crazy, with only 20 minutes of (Phoenix) four o'clock sun a day. Then I could have twelve! (I am already negotiating with the devil, I better have someone with me to hold my wallet.)

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Comments (32)

curlydoc
15 years ago
I think all your roses will do well. Huntington Beach was once prime farming country. Drive around and you will see lots of roses in people's front yards.
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
I thank you for your comment. I kind of already knew that; we are both zone 9 after all. But I never saw black spot in my Phoenix garden; I don't know which are prone to it.

And some varieties are growing here (I may have been rose challenged these last two years, but I still look.) I saw a Zephrine Drohne the other day, a great mountain of a plant, covering a wall. It could have only been one other cultivar, and I recognized the scent (yes, I got out of my car. Is that good manners here? I have given tours of my garden for that.) I stopped to look, stunned by what I saw. For in my garden, the plant, still a monster, was one of the few plants that survived shovel pruning and only gave me a handful of gorgeous flowers. This Huntington Beach creature, confused by the constant climate here, was covered in pink flowers. I painstakingly pinned mine (at least it didn't have thorns like my Fourth of July, who bloodied me once too many times in the pruning of its ever expanding shape, til it was it or me, and I took it down, though my clothing was torn and so was I. It fought back like a bougainvillea, lol.) My ZD looked like an old lady in curlers (my second "test subject" I left unfettered), with loops trying to make canes more vertical. It rewarded me with more and more canes; alas no flowers.

I am not being an HT snob; with only a ten by ten plot, I am interested only in vase life. I would have liked an Austin, but much as I treasured my Evelyn, Prince and Bibi Maizoon, their cut life was very low. Do they experience the giantitous they did in Phoenix, in SoCal? My Prince, that fabled compact plant, was 6 feet tall, Bibi not much less. And Evelyn became a climber, as large as my America, but 100 times more fragrant. One could get drunk walking by it.

Okay, where are the rose societies here, chuckle.

Beth
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scorpiohorizon
15 years ago
BETH!

Remember me?

I was just wondering about you last night and trying to find recent posts!

Jennifer
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
15 years ago
Well welcome to The OC! Not much in the way of Black Spot here unless we have an exceptionally rainy winter, and none of those lately. Rust and mildew with occasional anthracnose and downy mildew in a rainy winter.

Everything on your list should be ok, but put 'St. Patrick' in the warmest spot in the yard, and you may get PM on DD. My 'St. Patrick' was happiest in the heat of summer and fall. He was unenthusiastic about spring.
jerijen
15 years ago
Hi Beth --

I think you will be unlikely to see blackspot in your coastal area.
Generally, when we are warm enough for blackspot, we're dry, and when we're humid
enough for blackspot, we're too cold for it.
(Though Huntington Beach, an Orange County area, will probably get a bit more tropical
than we do, further North.)

As Hoov said: For St. Patrick, only the warmest spot you have. He is, as you know,
a heat lover. In a cooler coastal zone, his form isn't optimal, and he doesn't
get that signature green shading.
(Tom Carruth warned me that in my climate, SP would be "b*tt ugly.")
I took him at his word, and abstained.

Many of your other choices are also heat-lovers.
(You see, you may have to find new things to love, or you're going to learn
to love Powdery Mildew.

Super Star (Tropicana,
Voodoo
Dolly Parton or Fragrant Cloud
*** All roses which thrive best in a warm, dry climate, and are not great
at the coast.

Angel Face (if you tell me no on this one, I'll do it anyway, but I will be forewarned!)
*** Be forwarned. It's not a strong grower in coastal conditions here.

Intrigue *** Grows like a champ.

Black Magic *** May mildew here. You will have that problem with most fragrant
dark reds
Olympiad *** Should be great in your new climate.

Saint Patrick *** Won't do exhibition form without heat (see above).

Double Delight (no fighting now....) *** Will set new standards for powdery mildew.
But the fragrance cannot be denied.

*** You will find that, right at the coast, you will get better performance from
Teas and Chinas (and Noisettes) than Hybrid Tea Roses.

Jeri
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
Jennifer, how are you. Did you recover from your move. Moving is a punishment, I am sure. I am enthusiastic to be back, it was frustrating to lose such a love as roses, and I think I will like having just 12 perfect ones, more enjoyment, less work.

I am glad to be back. I had the best time last night looking up the specifics of my chosen cultivars. I threw away all of my rose books in a fit of frustration.

Hoov, I remember you as well. Are you close to me? I think I may forgo St Patrick; it liked 115 degree weather best. I was trying to get two of each color; but if I get Mellow Yellow, it is so prolific I will always have yellow flowers, and he bloomed in December in Phoenix. Would Gemini be a better choice than DD? Similar colors and productivity, both fragrant, Gemini more upright, which is a plus in a small space. My immature Gemini (it had just come out) never had less than 6 flowers on it once it got started. Of course, DD often beat a dozen, but it was a seven year old plant and the size of Mellow Yellow, though low.

I have been lonely, I know no one in CA. I have only been here three weeks today. You two made me feel better. Thank you.

Beth
gardenerme
15 years ago
If you check with Roger's Gardens in Newport(leave your money at home!)they have a rosarian named Stewart Spann that has compiled a list of healthy roses for the coast. Good luck!
jerijen
15 years ago
Beth, Gemini is a winner on the coast.
I don't grow it, but it's all over here, and looks great with little or no care.
If you can find 'Gardens Of The World,' you'll find that it might have been designed
with coastal conditions in mind. It's prolific, and disease-free here.

Try just one Tea Rose.
They were bred for our sort of moderate climate.

There are LOTS of rose folks around SoCal, and not a few in coastal areas.
You should soon feel right at home.

Jeri
greenhaven
15 years ago
Greetings to an old friend, from a new one! I have nothing to offer you in the way of advice, but wanted to say good luck and best wishes.
petaloid
15 years ago
Dolly Parton, Fragrant Cloud, Rosie O'Donnell and Tropicana have all been disease-prone in my coastal garden. We get rust here, so steer clear of varieties that are susceptible.

Of those you listed, Gemini is an all-around winner. My St. Patricks are clean and I think they are pretty, but not green here. Sheila's Perfume, Black Magic and Double Delight have been fine, with only an occasional bit of fungus.

You mentioned exhibiting -- if you plan to do that in the future, you might want to check Bob Martin's lists to see which varieties are winning trophies in our district and go from there.
scorpiohorizon
15 years ago
Beth, I am not anywhere near your zone or climate, but I wouldn't talk you out of Angel Face no matter what. She is one of the prettiest roses I have even grown, and to think I only bought her because I found her bareroot for $1.00!

I will send you an email soon. I really have been wondering about you. Was afraid to post "Where's Beth been?" When someone falls off the radar, it can be a good question or a bad one.
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
I love Bob; he was often brought in to judge our shows, and he was a charming person to speak with. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge; I hope I will have some to share soon as I learn about my new digs.

I think I will forgo St Pat and give Mellow Yellow two spots; its sunshiny blooms knock me out even if they are scentless. I will substitute Gemini for Double Delight.

No one has mentioned Just Joey, who is also a descendant of Fragrant Cloud. Rosie is one of my favorite roses; how does Love do here? It was prolific in Phx but blew too fast to put in a vase, even if you wore armour (lol). It has that red/white reverse I crave.

As for exhibiting, I hadn't considered it. With only a dozen plants, I didn't think I could expect much of a showing at just the right stage on just the right day. When are the shows? I do love them. I could page if I can't show.

How about Perfect Moment. My theory on that rose is that there are some lines that are great, great bushes, and some that are weak. My third was a charm.

Beth
jerijen
15 years ago
Beth, if you deadhead religiously, and like bright colors, I can't think of a better
rose for a coastal climate than Perfect Moment.

Of course, you know the joke about her -- that she is PERFECT for a MOMENT?
Spectacularly lovely when she opens, she holds onto those old nasty petals,
unless you're right on top of her.
But she sure handles a coastal climate well.

Jeri
peachiekean
15 years ago
Welcome Beth. I don't live really near Huntington Beach but I did live near the coast for most of my life. I now live in So. OC and a bit inland but still the west side of the 405.
You will have some mildew and rust (that rust is the biggest pain to me)and maybe a bit of the downey mildew in late winter. Black spot not a problem here unless it is extremely rainy. Check with some local nurseries. Most everything grows fine here but the old roses from back east which need the chill we just can't provide. I am trying my first tea and have quite a number of Austins, floribundas and HTs.
There is a rose society down here somewhere. Also check out some botanic gardens - some of the old California Ranchos have nice rose gardens. Rancho Los Alamitos comes to mind for your area. Also the Fullerton Arboretum is inland but I really like it. Up in LA County go to the So. Coast Botanic Garden in PV and the Huntington Gardens in San Marino. There is also the Arboretum in Arcadia and Descanso Gardens in I think La Canada-Flintridge. Also Rose Hills Memorial Gardens and the Nixon Library. These are places I wish to visit someday when I have TIME!
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
Jeri, you are a card!

Funny thing, Perfect Moment cut well for me in Phoenix. Maybe the sun melted the petals on!

I called Rogers' Nursery (funny, because I am Rogers too) and they went down my list. They reminded me that if I spray, any of the roses I have chosen, chosen precisely because they are prolific, vigorous and fragrant, will do. Spraying 12 roses is a piece of cake.

I have decided on:

Mellow Yellow or Midas Touch, a tie
Olympiad
Black Magic or Ingrid
Intrigue (is going in a pot)
Queen Margaurithe (is going in the pot next to him)
Angel Face
Just Joey or Marilyn (recommended by the excellent web site of the San Diego Rose Club)
Tropicana (I found a plant with four great canes, what's a girl to do?)
Gemini

I need a pink (Tiffany, Peter Mayle or McCartney, nursery encouraged First Prize, another of my favorite, but HUGE (8 feet) in Phx.) Help?

I need a red/white reverse: Rosie O'donnell or Love? How is Love here? Mine was a lovely shaped bush with profuse flowers, that would not cut well. It did not like the heat, and was under a tree to help it. Is it better here?

The SD club recommends both Sheila's Perfume and Diana, POW. They were next to each other in my last garden, an unfortunate mistake. I had to trace canes to see which was which. Though the Diana blooms were awesome in size, Sheila was not far behind, and far less stingy. How do they do here?

If I have to put it in a pot, I have to have Fragrant Cloud.

Oh, darn, I am adding instead of limiting roses. Saints preserve me, lol.

Beth
hershigrl
15 years ago
I'm just down the coast from you, also in Orange County. Black Magic and Ingrid Bergman are terrific for me. (BM isn't very fragrant, BTW.) If you're taking suggestions, my favorite fragrant pink is Secret. My favorite landscaping pink is Our Lady of Guadalupe. Of course Yves Piaget is hard to pass up too.

I've never seen blackspot, only mildew and rust.

- Hershi
jerijen
15 years ago
Secret was one of the last HTs we grew. One of the last to go.
Had it not been so HORRIBLY virused, it might have stayed.
But it is a fine rose -- tho the bloom is a bit small, and the stems a bit short for
top exhibition work.
It was disease-free here, without spraying, and it has a lovely fragrance.

Jeri
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
I am the happy owner of a bouncing baby Intrigue. Indeed, it is almost full grown, with four canes, vase shaped and tons of new growth!

Now that is two. The only place I found decent roses for not extraordinary prices was Home Depot. I know, I know, but these are not bare roots, and I can recognize a good rose when I see it.

I should have bought the First Prize.

Any comments on Love in coastal cities?

Hi, Scorpio, I missed your message before. Post divorce, I am great and starting over. So bad news, then good. I am so excited to be planting, even just 10 roses.

Beth
hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
15 years ago
I'm not far away from you Beth near the 5/55 interchange. Email me if you need help with anything...there are quite a few forum-ers in OC, you are not alone! 'Peter Mayle' does great here, but he's huge. The place to buy bareroots in January is Laguna Hills Nursery. You can pre-order a few days before they arrive and they will pick out the biggest ones for you. Yes if you go to Roger's leave your money at home or it will be all gone. They are having buy 2 roses get one free right now. Ooops, should not have mentioned that.
zeffyrose
15 years ago
Hi Beth !!!

do you remember me ?

Happy to see you back-----I too love the fragrance of ZD
I live in Pa. so I don't know how it does in CA.

Good luck with you new life----welcome back to the world of roses

Do you remember DH's favorite picture ??
"find Flo"
{{gwi:211551}}

Florence/zeffyrose
bethr1957
Original Author
15 years ago
You, Florence, where the only reason my ZD'a didn't meet an untimely death at the end of a shovel. That picture is awesome. The one I saw was similar, at an odd time of year for ZD. Thank you for the nod.
carla17
15 years ago
Wow, a blast from the past. I remember you, Beth. Glad to hear you are still interested in roses.

Carla
piper101
15 years ago
I'm an OC'er, in South OC, but coastal if you consider 5 miles from the beach enuf. You might like Armstrong nurseries if you can wait til they have their ordering in Oct/Nov. A very long list of what they can get. I'm looking forward to ordering some stripes. Green Thumb is also very nice in Lake Forest/Laguna Hills at 5fwy and El Toro Rd. Always have a big selection and great bare roots when they come in,,,so many to choose from.

Anyway, for yellow, what about a Julia Child? I'm on the 2nd flush of blooms and she's only been in the ground a few months bought as a potted rose from Roger's Gardens. It was at a premium price but the 3 I've bought from them have been the best looking bushes I've ever seen (3 diff. ones). I've seen JC in person fully grown on a garden tour and hearing about it here, I just had to get one. Multiple yellows and a blooming machine! Very happy I did.

Well, maybe you can just look at the move as a new adventure. You are HERE for a reason... and it might just turn out to be waaaay better than what you left behind. Every time I don't fight and try to push through or break down the door of what I "think" I've just got to do, and walk through the 'open' doors, it turns out much better. I hope that is the case for you. See, you have 'virtual friends' here, already!! So.Coast Plaza has a nice Garden show to look forward to in the spring and you'll find lots of great things to do and see as mentioned above. Good luck.
Nicole
Noni Morrison
15 years ago
Beth, I am up north of you in the Puget Sound area so my suggestion may not work in your warmer climate, but instead of St Patrick, have you considered Limelight? I am totally in love with it, and the blossoms do have that wonderful greenish tone to their yellow when they first open. THey stay beautiful right to the end, and seem to last well here and the foliage looks great. Check it out!
leahcate
15 years ago
Hi Beth:>) Welcome to O.C. Seems no one's replied to your Just Joey question .... over-sight, probably, and one of the few I'm qualified to answer! Mine is a blooming champ, but does blow a bit easier than some in very hot weather. Love him! Monster blooms, and very healthy. Best of luck on this change of locale and lifestyle. Know you will conquer your new world!
peachiekean
15 years ago
Beth, I have to chime in again. Just Joey is one of my favorites. First Prize and Fragrant Cloud grow in my veggie garden for more sun and right now they are beautiful even with unstaked tomatoes overwhelming them! Pope John Paul II is my new favorite - just exquisite in every way, pure white and quite fragrant. I also planted Morden Sunrise a few years ago and it's really come into its own. It's from Pickering in Canada and I guess it's a floribunda or small shrub. Keep it deadheaded (it will produce hips if you don't) and it will put on a steady show of semi-double, ruffled golden yellow blooms.
Angel Face will give you problems with mildew and rust but it sure is pretty.
Have fun!

Mary
peachiekean
15 years ago
A while back I had Love, Honor and Cherish. Cherish was awesome. Honor is still growing but Love was put out of its misery at my coastal garden. The plant just never looked that good. I think it may have been poor soil.
kstrong
15 years ago
Hi Beth -

I'm new to this forum, but not new to coastal Southern Cal rose growing, so I'll chime in too. I'm in San Juan Capistrano on the South end of Orange County and about 2.5 miles from the beach in a coastal canyon. So I know all about roses in the marine layer fog.

Mildew, not black spot, is the bane of our existence here. The only blackspot I've ever seen in my garden was on florist roses. But I do spray. And the three most fragrant ones on your list -- Double Delight, McCartney Rose and Fragrant Cloud -- will mildew even with religious spraying. But, the fragrance is worth it and I grow all three.

No one has told you about the rose societies here yet. There are several. I go all the way south to the California Coastal Rose Society in Carlsbad. That's probably too far for you. There are two other OC rose societies -- the Orange County Rose Society which meets very near to Huntington Beach in Westminster -- they focus on exhibitions and hold their show the last weekend of October every year at Rogers Gardens. There's also another one that focuses mostly on gardening, garden tours and garden parties -- no exhibiting -- which is the Saddleback Rose Society -- that one's a bit inland for both of us. Wholly different climate those folks have. You can get to either one by googling the names, or I've put a link in here for the OCRS.

On the rest of your list, I've grown most of them, and they do just fine. But as a general rule, in coastal cool areas like ours, fewer petals is better. Many roses just won't open like they do in hot climes, and sometimes you just die waiting for a leeeetle bit of heat to get them open, which never comes. So, plan to have some that open without heat.

As for colors, try these --
Pink -- Our Lady Of Guadalupe is by far the best pink floribunda. But also check out The Imposter and Lovestruck, both of which do well for me. For Hybrid Teas, I like Memorial Day.
Purple -- Intrigue is okay, but try Purple Tiger -- it's better and it's striped. It does really well on the coast. For a Hybrid Tea, I like Neptune and one that Armstrongs carries called Della Reese that is a darker purple hybrid tea with occasional exhibition form.
Orange -- About Face
Red -- I'm still looking for a good one.
Yellow -- Julia Child or Midas Touch. Or even Peace, which gets enormous blooms on the coast.
Multi -- get some stripes -- City of Carlsbad if you can find it or Cabana if you can't.

Have fun. I seem to move every few years just BECAUSE I get to replenish my garden. Enjoy it.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Orange County Rose Society
kittymoonbeam
15 years ago
Frederick Mistral is shaping up tp be a great plant in my So. Cal O.C. garden. Other reliable fragrant roses for me are Radox Bouquet, Pink Peace, Florist's form Sterling Silver from Vintage, Jardins Bagatelle, Perfume Delight, Amazing Grace, Pope John Paul II, White Lightnin, Double Delight, La France, Chrysler Imperial, Lagerfeld/Starlight, New Zealand, Honor,and Sweet Afton.

DA English roses should do great for you in HB. You will be spared most of the nasty Santa Ana winds coming up later in the year and get to grow some tremendous fuschias and camellias if you want to. Bourbons aren't so great here for me 30 min. from the coast. (I'm at the 55x91 fwy) My ZD has grown large, but I never got a good show from my 8 year old plant. Some Hybrid Perpetuals like La Reine and Souv. Malmaison have been incredible! Get ready to enjoy your great soil and maybe try out the Golden West College Swap Meet on weekends in HB. I love going there every Sunday that I can.
kittymoonbeam
15 years ago
Sorry- forgot to add Memorial Day and Full Sail. Strong growers and great fragrance as well.
steelrose
15 years ago
Hi Beth,

The only ones from your list that I grow are Just Joey and the Romantica Johann Strauss. They both do splendidly no spray here--Joey has leaves and everything!

Colleen
athenainwi
15 years ago
For a pink you should consider Falling in Love. It is light pink with a white reverse and has a nice scent and perfect form. It is a relative of Marilyn Monroe which I also love. Obviously my climate is completely different from yours so I can't say how they will do for you but both do very well here.

Old Rose Forum Friend: New to SoCal Beach City. Help me choose!

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