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birdamy

Help me choose new range - gas vs induction

8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

Long-time lurker, first post. I have gleaned much useful information mining the archives of this forum.

My husband and I have recently started a DIY remodel of our 1970s SF Bay Area kitchen in a 1950 post-war 1000 sq ft tract house. We will be taking everything down to the studs and replacing everything except the dishwasher (perfectly good Bosch) and the fridge (Whirpool recently acquired year when old fridge failed).

We currently have a 20+ year old middle-of-the-road GE gas range. It works, but is very ugly, too ugly for my new kitchen. I am in the process of choosing a new range and can use some advice.

We have already decided to get a slide-in range, rather than separate cooktop and oven, based on the layout of the kitchen. The range will be in a different location, so we will need to either 1) move the gas line or 2) wire for 40 or 50 amp 240 power. Both options are achievable (we met with an electrician already). We are not inclined to do both, and therefore prefer not to use a dual-fuel range.

I cook every day, but I'm not a gourmet cook. I roast vegetables and meat once or twice a week, I scramble eggs, cook sausage, and make sauteed greens nearly every day. I cook fish on the stove top once or twice a week. I make sauteed vegetables a few times a week.

I am strongly inclined to switch from a gas range to an electric induction range. I'd like to explain my reasons, ask a few questions, and hear thoughts about my rationale.

1. I want to move to a high quality convection oven, and my research indicates that electric ovens are generally better than gas ovens.

2. I am attracted to the visual aesthetics of a glass top instead of a gas grills.

3. I like the easy cleanup that comes with induction.

4. I like the energy efficiency claims of induction. Our electric utility provides 100% carbon-free electricity.

5. Based on what I've read, I believe that induction ranges are no longer new-fangled and subject to reliability problems.

6. I've read many reviews on this forum and elsewhere from people who say they are happy they made the switch and they like cooking with induction.

7. The cost is acceptable (from $2500 for Frigidaire to $7000 for Miele).

8. My pots are already induction-compatible, and I don't cook with a wok.

9. I like the safety considerations of induction given that we will be using this range when we are elderly.

And now my questions...

A. In reading reviews, some people are bothered by the sound of the fan when using the induction burners and others are not. I wonder if this is based on brand (different noise levels by brand) or by user sensitivity to sound. I would appreciate any insight.

B. Having used a gas stove all my life, I am used to unlimited control of the heat level. I am now borrowing a five-year-old (no brand name) countertop induction burner. It has 11 heat settings, and I have been using the two lowest choices to scramble eggs. Ideally I'd use something between those two. I believe I read that the induction ranges have something like a logarithmic scale of control so that the gradation at the lower temperatures is very good. I'd like to hear from anybody who has switched to induction about whether you often (or occasionally) wish you could adjust the heat to something between two settings.

C. I have read plenty of forum posts from people saying they are happy they switched to induction. I don't think I've read any that say they regret the choice. Is this really true? If you made the switch, could you comment? Even a simple comment - happy / neutral / regret - would be helpful. I fear that I'm drinking the kool-aid when I tell my husband that people are consistently happy with induction.

If you're still reading, thanks for your time. In addition to the cost of buying a new range, this is a big decision because once we either wire for an electric range or move the gas line we are committing to one or the other for the long haul. I very much appreciate any opinions or insight.

If I decide to buy an induction range (based in large part on responses to this post) I may start another thread summarizing the research I have done on different available models and sharing my rationale for choosing between them.

Comments (26)

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I switched to induction from gas about four years ago after discovering in on this forum. I have a free standing Frigidaire range. I love induction, am very glad I switched and would never voluntarily switch back to gas. I have not ever wished for an in-between setting on my burners. I hear noise from my induction burners, but it does not bother me--but I have kids so I have a lot of background noise and a pretty high tolerance for noise in general, so ymmv.

    (And just because I really do love it so much, let me say again that I love induction.)


    (Editing to add, we recently gut remodeled our Bay Area kitchen and I could definitely have switched back to gas if I had wanted to. Never even considered it. People on the kitchen forum tried to talk me into a vintage range because I kept some vintage elements in my kitchen and I refused to even consider it. I don't care how fabulous those vintage ranges look, I was not giving up my induction.)

    Amy thanked Nothing Left to Say
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Edit. Just noticed that Amy wrote that doing both gas and electric for a dual fuel range wasn't in the budget (but a in most cases I'd point out that adding dual fuel is going to be less than the cost difference between a $7,000 Miele and a $2,500 Frigidaire if the house already has gas service). Most of the items on the list are personal preferences. Personally I think the wok is the major showstopper against induction and if you wanted that you'd be looking at a Blue Star or similar. One other advantage of induction to add to your list is that with induction you don't need a high volume ventilation system which you would need if you had a Blue Star or other high BTU gas range.

    Amy thanked Stan B
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  • 8 years ago

    Amy said she didn't want duel fuel (which shows she knows there is such an animal,she just doesn't want it for reasons she outlined). Amy, I'm afraid I can't answer any of your specific questions, as I've not ever had induction. But as to having 'drunk the coolaid'-- I have to say that I do share your impression that induction owners are happy as clams, and that's not coming from someone who is trying to believe that, or convince myself that tis so, as I am fairly sure I am going to stick with gas in an upcoming kitchen design (I am one of those still-drives-a-stickshift peeps) . From here and the few folks I know with induction, it does seem they are happy.

    Amy thanked lapsangtea
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    (a) "Fan sounds" are apt to be more more noticeable and more annoying on
    slide-ins just because of the greater need for cooling all the
    electronics at the front of the stove above the oven door. There is
    some degree of subjectivity in how loud this will seem and there is variation between brands and models. Your own preferences and sensitivity has something to do with this --- what you personally tolerate
    before the noise level crosses the threshold into annoyance. From my
    own limited experience using induction slide-ins, my impression is that
    the GE slide-in was unobtrusive -- barely noticeable to me. That seems to be a consenus from the threads about the GE models here. Saw a Miele demonstrated a couple of
    weeks ago and did not notice any cooling fan noise at all. (A wonderful stove with a
    smallish oven but, at $7k, a budgetary absurdity for me.) I've seen the
    Bosch induction slide-in but not running. Comments here, it seems that the some units are
    good and some are annoyingly loud.

    (b) Numbers of control level settings: for this, I'd recommend considering only stoves with 19 or more heat levels. (For me, that would knock out the Whirlpool/Kitchenaid/Maytag products and numbers of other.) Generally speaking, most stoves with only 10 settings do not give you enough steps where you need them in the lower heat ranges.

    In the meantime, for your present experiments with the portable-induction-cooker (PIC), you might be able to get finer control by switching over from power settings to the "temperature" settings if your unit has them. Sometimes, the temp scale settings seem to fall in-between the power settings. For example, you might find a 250° settting gives you something between power setting "2" and "3." Ranges do not offer that option.

    (c) For consistently happy, poll-like responses (and great detail, too), there are a couple of very long older threads on this very topic. If you have not seen them, maybe make your husband read this one to see if he still thinks induction is "kool aid."

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2339367/does-anyone-here-who-went-induction-regret-your-choice

    That links to an earlier equally long thread which should further allay the "kool-aid" concerns

    Some addtional comments.

    Slide-ins come in a couple of different designs. Some are designed to sit flat against a wall as freestanding ranges do, some have a bump-out for the oven in the back which requires a an inch or so wide countertop strip behind them. ALso, some seem to need addtional strip pieces in the back to completely enclose/wrap the corners to avoid slight gaps.

    FWIW to your future research, that Frigidaire induction slide-in often can be had for much less than $2500. AJMadison.com often has it for under $1500 and our local Lowe's hd one on offer for $1575 right before Christmas. (If checking AJ Madison, you have to put a stove in a cart to see the actual selling price.) A new appliance dealership just opened in the nearby big city -- well, what passes for a big city out here -- and they had one on offer with $1800 on the tag.)

    "High quality" convection ovens -- you tend to get more features for your money with electric convection ovens although many folks find gas ovens pretty competent, too. Electric ovens tend to dump less heat into the kitchen, which may be a real advantage in a warmish climate. (Again, where you live in the Bay Area can make a huge difference in how important this aspect is.) The extent to which those features will matter to you may be balanced with increased complexity. That can be something of a trade off. Pretty much every major-brand stove these days relies pretty extensively on electronics whether you are considering gas or electrical stoves.

    Induction ranges do not seem to be any less reliable than other stoves using electronic controls. That may or may not be reassuring. An inherent trade-off in the electronic complexity of many current ranges (induction and otherwise) will be a generally high cost for any repairs involving the electronics. Control boards and the replacement work are very costly. Again, this is not limited to induction ranges. Up until three years ago, I had GE dual fuel. The oven electronics went out (at about 12 years) and the cost of the replacement boards was about $800.

    "Electrical efficiency" can be pretty hard to suss out but an induction range won't be particularly "green."

    In other words, even if induction did make big savings in running a stove, it might not be particularly noticeable because the costs of runnng a stove at home are usually a very small part of the energy budget. My former employer, the US Dept. of Energy has been saying that kitchen appliances other than fridges may make up only 2% to 4% of a total household energy budget. That figure includes toasters, coffee makers, food processors, etc. etc. When I was last shopping for a stove, and explored induction versus gas versus radiant electric, I used the "Mr. Electricty" calculator at Michael Bluebird's site. I found that found the electric stoves were pennies per month more expensive than gas (at my current utulity rates), and that induction cost would be less than radiant electrics although a bit more than natural gas. Really, the difference was only pennies per month.

    Induction stoves are more efficient at putting heat into pans rather
    than into the kitchen as waste heat. That can translate to recognzable HVAC savings
    but won't necessarily mean a big savings in the cost of running a
    stove. Depending on where you live in the Bay Area, you might or might
    not have HVAC savings.

    Amy thanked jwvideo
  • 8 years ago

    Happy-as-a-clam induction owner here (cooktop). I have had regular electric and gas in my past lives and I would never ever willingly switch back to either. In fact, the ability to switch TO induction might be a factor when I choose my retirement home! I hear the hob noise (it's not a fan, it's a slight buzz, and only heard sometimes, with some pans, on some burners) infrequently. I have 19 settings and have never needed more. I love the individual hob timers on mine (great for things like oatmeal and rice). I love the instantaneous temperature change. I love how easy it is to clean (although I don't do the cleaning). We never considered the energy efficiency or safety aspects, so can't comment on those.

    Amy thanked sjhockeyfan325
  • 8 years ago

    Thanks for the comments, and thanks especially to jwvideo for providing links to the old threads. Those threads give me the information I need. I will study the spec sheets on all the available models to find out how many control level settings each brand offers - that's an excellent piece of advice.

    Regarding HVAC impact, we neither heat nor cool, so our HVAC costs are zero. That's an advantage of living in the mild climate of the San Francisco peninsula. Compared to gas, induction's lack of throwing off waste heat will be welcomed on hot summer days and missed on cold winter days like today.

  • 8 years ago

    Anyone wear a hearing aid? Some induction stoves are torment to those that do. If that is your situation I would make the effort to see the stove you're thinking of in action before buying.

    Amy thanked practigal
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    We put a GE induction in a kitchen in 2009. No bother by a fan. LOVED it for the ease of cleaning and heat response. No complaints. However - the next house was gas and we really enjoyed the animal like relationship to fire I think. I also found with induction, I missed banging things around as I was afraid I would break the glass (#unfounded?Ihavenoidea). This kitchen, we are back to gas.

    Good and bad for each type. But, I didn't regret going to induction and didn't regret going back to gas either. My dream cooktop is 4 induction hobs, a griddle, and 2 gas hobs.

    Amy thanked User
  • 8 years ago

    Amy, Best wishes for a problem-free remodel! It sounds as if you will be choosing induction. However, even if you decide to go with gas, may I suggest that you ask your electrician to bring the 240 volt service into your kitchen while the walls are open? It could save you money and disturbance sometime in the future. We did this in our San Francisco wiring upgrade a few years ago. Bringing the service to both flats cost about $2000. It's just sitting there waiting right now.

    Amy thanked fillmoe
  • 8 years ago

    I've had both (but not an induction range, just cooktops). Do induction, but plumb for gas just in case. It's not that much $ when you have it all opened up. I did gas this time for a change of pace (fire!!), but it's wired for induction...


    If you have not, see if Atherton Appliance or Friedman's in Pleasant Hill has a live one you can play with. The big ones are better than the countertop models. Way fun.

    Amy thanked Fori
  • 8 years ago

    We are also deciding between induction and gas. I actually tried cooking on one with a Le Crueset wok (which is what I use in my house). I understand this is not the classic wok, but worked fabulous on a Miele induction cooktop. The Miele shop in San Francisco let me cook on their induction and gas ranges.

    Amy thanked Steven Hart
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I may not know what I'm talking about here lol, but since I'm usually fairly good at making things work without spending money, I'm going to wing it...

    There is a product sold for using non-ferrous cookware on induction ranges. It's basically an iron disk that you set atop the induction burner and it will radiate heat to your non-induction-ready pans. So... if you want a cooking temp between 2 settings - take a cast iron skillet and place it on the induction burner. Use the higher of the 2 settings in question, and place your cookware on/in the skillet. It should create enough resistance to loose a small amount of heat and thereby slightly lower your cook temp. If you need it even lower, just use a wider cast iron skillet and you'll loose heat around the edges.

    Meh, it may be a waste of time and effort, I have no idea, I have zero experience with induction. On the other hand, it may work perfectly.

  • 8 years ago

    It's not really mentioned here but can you upgrade to a 200 amp electrical service? I had a friend in the SF area with an older house and they would not allow him to increase his electric service over 100 amps. This will play into if you should go with a 50amp induction range or a 10 amp gas range. Whenever you consider all the other electric loads of a 2015 house compared to a 1970's home you will find that a 100 amp service will limit your appliance choices.

    Amy thanked Jakvis
  • 8 years ago

    I'm a former gas fan that switched to induction a month ago. This house did not have gas, and I didn't want to have a propane tank installed.

    Jury is still out. I haven't found the sweet spot to stop burning things. I do often wish for the familiarity of gas. BUT, I love how easy the cooktop is to clean! That is one thing that would keep me from ever going back to gas.

    The stove is responsive, and I'm able to sear meat properly (that was a big concern of my husband's). I have to keep playing with the settings do that I don't burn quesadillas, etc. I made popcorn without burning it, which was a suprise.

    I am sensitive to noise and our last range (GE Cafe Dual Fuel) was insanely loud. The cool-down fan would run for half an hour after we were done baking, and we had trouble hearing the TV over it.

    I now have a GE Profile induction slide-in, and the cool-down fan is barely noticeable, and turns off after a couple of minutes. The hobs do buzz somewhat loudly, but it doesn't really bother me. A powerful gas burner would be equally loud, just a different kind of sound.

    Amy thanked pippiep
  • 8 years ago

    Another Bay Area induction convert here! We also switched over from gas primarily for the efficiency reasons (and expectation we will have solar at some point). We absolutely love it! We have the Miele 36" cooktop which has 12 heat settings. We've only had it for a few months but have used it a ton -I've never actually wanted an in-between setting. You can program it to have 24 settings though instead - since it only has +/- controls though I think that would be pretty annoying. I do have it start at 6 when I turn it on so this does help with minimizing changes. I almost never use the really low settings, so I suspect it has a lot more low variation than the cheap countertop units. No noticeable fan noise (I think it does have one that I've noticed once or twice). The pots do buzz some - a little annoying especially at low settings because then it does a pulsating buzz thing. Once you have things cooking, vent hood on, something simmering, I forget about it though as it isn't very loud. We have a convection wall oven and boy does that thing have a loud fan! The oven itself works great, but it has a kind of wheezy fan that continues forever even after you turn it off. It's a Whirlpool which was pretty much the cheapest convection wall oven I could find, so I'm sure there are better (quieter!) options there if you want to spend more money. We also have a small Bay Area house, but did a cooktop with pot drawers underneath and separate wall oven just under the counter (no space for a double oven certainly) - harder to replace but a more streamlined look and gives you more options, if cost isn't a major concern.

    Amy thanked lharpie
  • 8 years ago

    As far as fan noise, most exhaust hoods are louder. The only people I know who complain about their induction noise are those who do have/use exhaust hoods.

    I love an induction - perhaps because I am the boil over queen! SO easy to clean up. I also cover the entire top of the stove (plus side counters) with newspaper when frying up a bunch of bacon -- no spatters to clean up.

    I've cooked on the 10 power level and the 19 power level ones -- and I can adjust to both. I love induction -- so much safer!

    Amy thanked loonlakelaborcamp
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The short response for Amy about noises is to consider your experience with your portable induction cooker (PIC). Those are far noiser than most induction ranges and cook tops. Their cooling fans are much noiser and their burners produce a lot more electronic noises (often referred to as buzzing although the noises can be high pitched whistles and squealing in addition to humming and buzzing.) If your PIC has not driven you from the kitchen, a full sized range or cooktop are unlikely to give you problems with fan noises or burner buzzing.

    The long response is that cooling fan noises and induction burner noises have come in for some discussion here over the past few years and the subject is not necessarily simple for those who do have problems. Links to some of those discussions can be found in the long threads
    cited in my post above. Other links can be found by searching oast threads.

    Here's a synopsis: Many induction appliance owners do not have noise problems regardless of whether they do or do not use a vent fan. Some do have noise problems. Some can , solve their noise issues by running hood vents to drown out the noises they hear. Some have noise issues regardless. Some brands and models of induction appliances make more noise than others. There have been threads here about Whirlpool products in particular and several YouTube videos about some weirdly noisy Kitchenaid induction cooktops. (OTOH, Gary Dodge here posted a video of his virtually silent Electrolux induction cooktop.) Some folks have greater sensitivity to the noises or to particular frequencies of noises. For example, as noted by practigal, some hearing aids may magnify some noises. Others have noted family members with acute hearing in high frequency ranges -- what you might call a dog whistle effect. Some folks note noises more with some cookware than others. The list can go on.

    Amy thanked jwvideo
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The comments about ten-power settings got me musing on the subject and about Amy's initial question about logarithmic power controls. Here's where that lead me.

    Nobody really has logarithmic power controls, but there can be power settings spaced to sort of approximate a logarithmic curve -- a number of settings at the low end with only a couple of additional points needed to define the steep side of the curve for really high heat.

    In theory, that can be done with a ten-step power curve and some folks do find 10 power settings fine for what and how they cook. Others do not.

    Is anybody else here old enough to remember the GE stoves and cooktops from 50's and 60's with ten mechanical pushbuttons for heat settings? Those pushbuttons were literally "digital" controls, meaning that you punched them with one of your digits. GE sold a lot of them for a couple of decades, so some people found them adequate. Some did not.

    For the current digital electronic ten-step controls, others here besides loonlakecamp have reported satisfaction with a ten step set-up.

    Others, like me, would find them inconvenient for my cooking with, say, my pressure cookers. With only ten heat level steps, I would have to be constantly switching settings to maintain the correct pressure. Power setting "1" might be too low, setting "2" might be too high. Switch to 1 for a while until the pressure drops a little too low, switch to 2 for a while until it gets a little too high, then back to 1, etc., etc. With in-between settings, I avoid that annoyance. You don't use pressure cookers? Then maybe having in-between steps won't matter to you. This is just one example of how cooking styles can differ and how more settings can matter to one cook and not to another.

    Much fuss is sometimes made about the supposedly infinite adjustablity of gas burners. As a practical matter, though, we mostly try to get the burner to the same relatively few settings. Searing is pretty much searing, isn't it? If you deep fat fry, how often would you care if if the oil were at 352° instead of 350°? But maybe somebody is working with sugar syrups where, say, it might matter if a syrup is at 325° and not 360° and then maybe it matters if the induction burner only has ten settings.

    That said, the subject of induction power settings and controls can be more complicated than just the number of settings. The need for finding "in-between" steps for induction cooking can reflect two different aspects of ways that manufacturers design induction burner controls.

    One consideration is the power cycling that all induction burners use for settings of less than full power. A technical term for this is "pulse width modulation. or "PWM." It is the same kind of thing a microwave does for low heat levels---momentary pulses of power that average out at a particular heat level. With most PICs as well as some brands of induction cooktops and ranges, the PWM is pretty crude. I've seen this somewhere described as firing up the burner for a second or two of omigosh hot and then switching totally off for three or four seconds. While these pulses average out at a certain heat level the timing can be problematic for, say, the srambled eggs that Amy mentioned at the outset.

    Combine that kind of "low frequency" PWM with the crude power controls found on many PICs, and you could have a reason that Amy would find herself wanting steps in-between power level "1" and "2" for scambling eggs.

    Some full size induction ranges and cooktops work this way. I noticed a lot of pulsing at the low heat settings on the Maytag induction range I saw demoed several years ago when I was stove shopping. From past threads on PWM, I gather than Whirlpool's induction ranges and
    cooktops (which include Maytag and Kitchenaid brands) have used crude PWM. For searching out past threads here on this subject try a search strings like "induction + pulsing + gardenweb" and "induction + cycling + gardenweb."

    A few of the expensive PICs (Cooktek, Garland, Vollrath) and many full size ranges and cooktops use much higher frequency PWM. Instead switching on and off for a second or more at time, the power switches on and off many times per second. The higher frequency of switching yields much finer power control that more closely approximates a steady heat level.

    The other design aspect that can lead to wanting "in-between" settings is in how the engineers program the electronic controllers to space the power settings on the appliance you are using --- that's the kind of logarithmic curve I thnk Amy may been thinking about when she posed her question in the original post. . For manufacturers, the least costly controls use simple linear spacing. Setting "1" would use the PWM to average 10% power, setting "2" would be 20%, etc.

    Even with a high quality PWM, though, 9 or 10 linear settings may be too crude, A thing most induction users discover pretty quickly is that they do most of their cooking in the low to medium range settings. The highest setting can be used for boiling. One or two medium high settings takes care of high heat applications like searing.

    There seem to be three strategies for induction manufacturers to address the crudeness. One is to add half-steps between the numbered power settings. The other is to program the stove's controllers to put more steps in the low to medium range and fewer in the high ranges. The third strategey combines the first two.

    Without using the particular induction stove or cooktop, it can be hard to find out whether the particular unit was designed to use one or the other or some combination of them. In my own somewhat limited experience, it seems that the GE induction appliances and Electrolux's Frigidaire/Kenmore ranges seemed to use a modified-half step approach with some concentration of steps but also using half steps for finer control. The Electrolux-branded models use a slightly different approach with quarter-steps at the lower power ends and fewer steps at the high end. Miele cooktops seem to use a similar kind of mix with the option of switching on more steps. I'm not sure how BSH (which includes Bosch) handles this except that their induction appliances manuals show that half-steps are available. The Samsung freeestanding induction ranges seemed to follow the GE model (19 half steps). The reports about Samsung's ten-step "Chef Collection" model seem to conflict, some seeming to say that stepping is linear, some hinting that the settings may be skewed to the lower end.

    There is a yet another strategy which is the near infinite stepping of of potentiometer-like controls. These control systems seem to be very expensive so, AFAIK, they are used only for the commercial Garland/Manitowiac PICS and maybe the new Miele induction range have this. I say "maybe" for the Miele because there is nothing about it in the product literature and the display shows only whole-number settings, but a couple of posters here -- livinginseattle is the name I recall -- have reported finding that the knobs can be turned to provide fine gradations of "in-between" settings. Some folks would find that ideal. Then the question becomes: how much are you willing to spend for the "ideal" (and are there other design compromises that have to accept in order to get that ideal function for the burners?)

    Amy thanked jwvideo
  • 8 years ago

    jwvideo and others - thanks for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your time and contributions.

    "Now, where does all this information get us?" Well, here is where it has gotten me.

    I have decided to buy an induction range. I'm in the process of choosing a brand.

    I rarely if ever use more than two burners at once, so the comments on this and the other threads jwvideo provided about the arrangement of burners and ability to get 4 pots to fit are not so important to me, but I can see how that would be important to many other cooks.

    I have ruled out Frigidaire and Electrolux because their control panel is wider than 30" and overlaps the front cabinets - that won't work because we have frameless cabinets and the range would block the top drawer. Seems like a dumb design that precludes many potential users.

    I have ruled out several brands based on overall reputation for product quality and/or quality of the support service. This includes Fisher&Paykel, Dacor, Samsung, Viking. I'm no expert on this, and my impression of quality are based on reading things on this forum and things on the Yale Appliance blog. If I am wrong about any of those brands, please correct me.

    That leaves GE, Bosch, Bertazoni, Miele and Jenn-Air/KitchenAid.

    GE & Bosch have batwings that overlap the counters. I prefer to avoid that if possible based purely on visual aesthetics. Otherwise, the GE range seems to have consistently great reviews, happy customers, 19 levels of control, and a (relatively) modest price. If I can't find something without batwings that meets my requirements, then these are possible. We did see the Bosch in person, and there was a detail of the way the control panel joined the range that left a significant gap where food would embed and be essentially impossible to clean. My husband (a product design engineer) saw that and said "no way".

    KitchenAid/Jenn-Air were announced about a year ago but still don't exist. The price is right, the visuals are right (no bat wings), but they only have 9 levels of control (as far as I can tell reading the specs). I can easily wait until May, but if it's possible these products may never actually see the light of day that would be problematic. And I worry (possibly unfounded) that whatever is holding up availability could translate into reliability problems.

    Miele seems perfect, but $7000 ouch. I would only spend that kind of money if there was nothing else that I is in range of acceptable. If necessary, however, I will consider it.

    I haven't studied Bertazoni yet and have no opinion or data.

    Thanks again for encouragement and advice. Amy

  • 8 years ago

    I should add that I'm in the process of reading all of the specs to learn the requirements for location of the outlet. Hopefully I'll be able to proceed with the electrical work before being forced to choose a brand, as that would give time for KitchenAid/Jenn-Air to make an appearance.

  • 8 years ago

    Keep in mind the Miele adds a steam component to oven capability. You need to run water to the rear hookup. Miele provides the line.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I'm with you on the aesthetics of "batwings" but they are pretty much unavoidable for a major-brand slide in range. GE's "Cafe" line dispenses with the overhangs but there is (as yet) no word of a Cafe induction range.

    Amy thanked jwvideo
  • 8 years ago

    Thank you Amy for starting this thread. I'm going through the same decision process right now. I was really leaning toward the Frigidaire slide in, but I am also going with frameless cabinets. I don't see the exact measurements of the control panel bump out on the standard downloads. Did you find this measurement somewhere?


  • 8 years ago

    Treehuggergirl,

    On page 4 of installation instructions:

    Locate Cabinet Doors 1" (2,5 cm) Min.
    From Cutout Opening

    This may only apply to the slide-in model. Freestanding would be different.

  • 8 years ago

    hWat sjhockeyfan said re Bosch. Bosch has the same bells and whistles as the Miele and is thousands of dollars less. Bosch Siemens is a leading mfr and makes many machines used in hospitals, such as mri's. They have to be accurate to the nnnth degree and they are. I, too, love my Bosch induction cooktop. I have gas in a beach house and love induction way, way more. Bosch and it's sister, Thermador, have shut-off timers, as does Miele. Most others have timers that alert you but these actually shut off the hob. Oh, I forgot that you are looking at ranges rather than cooktops.--which may affect my statement re the price. Still, Bosch is cheaper than Miele.

    Amy thanked westsider40