I'm in Sunset 7 in California; I'm not sure if this is the same as the USDA 7 zone. We are still not quite through with cold (20's) weather around here. I planted a Marechal Niel from Vintage Gardens last year. I did not protect for the winter and it promptly died. If I were to do it again, I would definitely protect because of our prolonged winter and shorter growing season. However, I've decided not to attempt anymore noisettes in this climate and will stick instead to the HP's, gallica's, bourbons.

Jeff

I do not think the search engine is working properly. Even when searching for the roses most frequently talked about on the forum, nothing comes back. Anyway, I grow MN, but I am not in zone 7, so my experience will probably not be helpful. However, I love my own root MN. It is growing steadily. It is now almost 3 years in the ground from a band and it is easily 4 feet tall and 6 feet wide. The blooms are amazing--zillions of petals and the fragrance divine. It is an awkward grower in that the canes have many branches and the flowers are on short stems. I find that I need to keep on top of tying it to its support as it is very thorny and if I wait too long, it becomes a big tangle and the thorns show no mercy. As the heavy blooms are on short stems; they nod and droop. This does best when grown as a climber with lots of support. The only way to enjoy the flowers is to look up at them. I have heard it is a warm weather rose, but I remember a few posts that suggest it will work in colder climates. It is one of my favorite roses.

Joanne

I've read nothing but woes about this rose north of zone 8.

For the Tea-Noisette "look" in zone 7 plant GRAHAM THOMAS or THE PILGRIM instead. Both do well own root.

GRAHAM THOMAS or THE PILGRIM instead. Both do well own root.

*** Intriguing thought.
If I wanted to try that route again, I would definitely try The Pilgrim (which I think is the prettiest of the two) on its own roots.
I suspect it might be a better-mannered plant that way.

Jeri

I have suffered along with 'Maréchal Niel' for many years. It makes some headway some years but the first time Winter temps go below 15F it dies back to a stump. Its 2 feet tall this Spring and struggling to leaf out. You may or may not have a similar experience in your zone.

Paul

You might try Duchesse d'Auerstadt instead. It has very impressive flowers and did not die back for me. I got mine from RU--I recall hearing that from some sources this rose was small-growing or perhaps even stunted, but this was not the case with mine from RU.

I grew Reve d'Or through a few winters here and lost one big cane, but it was still on its way to getting much too big for where I had planted it, which is why I had to remove it, with great regrets.

Malvern Hills might be another Austin to investigate.

I have Marechal Niel for 3 (maybe 4) years and it has been doing very well and had no damage last year's Easter freeze while a lot of hardier rose suffered badly. I posted several photos of this rose or his flowers.

Positives: it starts blooming here in the coastal region of NC in late March and goes on till hard freeze, always covered with a gazillion of buds and does not need spraying. Negatives: 1.) Very botrytis prone, so be prepared to spray with some calcium solution to prevent botrytis; 2.) As Malcolm Manners said several times it is very difficult to find a Marechal Niel that does not have RMV. He has a cleaned clone and he buds/grafts his MNs onto fortuniana rootstock. Mine is grafted on multiflora and took off as soon as it hit the grand; so far my Pickering clone showed no sign of RMV. 3.) It requires a very strong structure because it is a huge rose and again according to Malcolm Manners it does not tolerate heavy pruning.

I wouldn't try to grow this rose own root on the east coast because it could be painstakingly slow, but that's just me.

See below Marechal Niel bloom on April 6, 2008

{{gwi:246915}}

I have two of the THE PILGRIM growing own root up against a trellis attached to a west facing wall. In USDA Zone 6b Maryland it is a beautiful, and restrained, climbing rose. It needs some winter chill, no doubt about it, to control the vigorous growth. In the zones 8-9 of the Southeastern United States the Tea-Noisette CELINE FORESTIER would be a better choice for light yellow and DUCHESSE D'AUERSTADT for golden yellow.

Most, if not all, of the more vigorous English Roses (i.e. The Jolly Green Giants) perform better when grown on their own roots. These roses are so strong that they really do not need the help of a grafted rootstock. THE PILGRIM, when grown on his own roots, fully matures during his second year in the ground. IMHO a fabulous rose for the Mid-Atlantic.

MARECHAL NIEL is THE yellow climbing rose for places like Florida, Louisiana and Texas. Basically places where the summers are hot and the winters are very very mild. Here is what Malcolm Manners had to say about it at the "Please wax poetically over Maréchal Niel" thread.

"We grow the "clone" (I hate that word, since the entire variety is a clone; maybe we should say "selection") of MN that was found by Greg Grant, in Texas, years ago -- a very vigorous one that tests free of virus disease. We graft it to 'Fortuniana' roots. That combination makes the most vigorous rose we've ever grown -- easily 15 feet per year, and it will cover whatever structure you put it on. Definitely house-eater category. At it's best, it is an amazingly beautiful rose. But in our humid climate, it balls for quite a lot of the year, and has severe thrips injury at other times. So it's not always beautiful. It's pretty good right now. It's other fault is that it is the most unforgiving of pruning of any rose I've ever seen. We grow it on an 8x8x8 foot arbor with two benches underneath. To keep it tidy on that structure, we have tried to give it a "haircut" a foot or so above the 8' roof. Doing so sometimes kills the plant to the ground. So on those occasions when we simply must prune it, we make sure there are replacement plants coming along in the greenhouse, just in case. What I try to do instead is to remove wayward branches one at a time, so the plant won't "notice" on any one day that it's been pruned. That seems to work."

Good Luck,

Patrick

FWIW, I recall reading that even "in its day," MN was considered to be a rose that HAD to be budded to succeed.

Jeri

Yikes....

It is a beautiful rose....but sounds wayyy to high maintenance for me!

I am in zone 7 north, central Mississippi, and I have grown Reve d'Or, Glorie de Djion, Creupscule, and Duchesse de' Auerstadt for several years and they do beautifully.

If I ever figure out how to post pictures again, I will share my spring blooms. Blooms have really popped open the last few days on the noisettes.

I have had MN here in piedmont NC for about 3 years. It is a big rose and I have it growing on an arch I made from hog wire. I haven't had much winter die-back, and my MN IS an own-root plant and it has grown like gangbusters. I don't care for the yellowish foliage, but the flowers are stupendous! Oh, and the smell! Denise

I would not recommend Celine Forestier for a no spay garden because it gets blackspot. The BS is not very bad on this rose but the fact remains that CF gets blackspot while MN doesn't. I got more canker and winter dieback on CF than on MN. The only positive for Celine is that she is a moderate size climber if one needs that.

Well....I am zone 7a. I was thinking of growing this rose against a brick was that faces East. Most of our winds are SW save for February when they switch to NE. This rose would have wind protection from surrounding evergreens and structures. We do get ice storms and a dusting of snow occasionally. We usually don't go below 20 although in an odd winter it can happen.

With those facts in mind.....

Yes....No?

Hemlady--Where in NC are you?

Oh, Ronda, just try it. If you lose is, you know you tried. I think you should try any rose you want and then if it fails, you know at least you would not be denied secondary to effort.

Ceterum's is gorgeous. It makes me want one. Well, I tried and we will see if I ever get one and what happens.

I know a few people who got this rose from James Mills at K&M on fortuniana. Not sure that helps in your area since fortuniana may be as high risk as MN.

Fortuniana (the rose itself) thrives here, but the roots have the ability to push growth twelve months of the year, even if you don't want/ can't keep alive tender growth that emerges in the middle of winter.

We need to do a literature search on MN. The one 'guaranteed' way to grow it that sticks in my mind was to plant it next to your greenhouse (this was back when all gardeners had greenhouses and a couple of gardeners as well) and then train the non-root part to come up IN the greenhouse.

The very late S. Reynolds Hole, also called Dean Hole, as he was Dean of Rochester Cathedral, authored the much cited and oft reprinted "A Book About Roses." My copy, a fifteenth edition in 1896 had only four color plates, the third was Marechal Niel. Marechal Niel also appeared as a black and white plate growing on a wall "at the Villa Zirio, San Remo" and that was the only rose identifiec in any of his black and white plates. That's a lot of expensive printing, and elsewhere in his book he proclaimed it "the finest yellow rose" in a time when most yellow roses weren't very yellow.

But certainly don't try an own root....right?

I have an own root MN here in Roanoke VA, and it is marginal. However, this Chamblees origin rose has never grown well- even in SC zone 8. I think its a clone thing, and agree about getting it on Fortuniana or multiflora.

Just go ahead and buy it. You're desire for this rose is ringing loud and clear. My advice is buy it grafted but also get an own root Graham Thomas. That way when MN dies and leaves you with a overly vigorous rootstock, then you'll have a replacement ready.

I grew The Pilgrim and it only bloomed in the spring, although it had a marvelous fragrance and was such a beautiful rose. At the time I lived in NC, which is also zone 7.
Sharon

Ronda, I'm in central NC - Chapel Hill to be exact. And my MN is an own-root from Chamblees. It is blooming today!

Denise - Hemlady - (Hem is for Hemerocallis - daylily which was my first passion).

Don't forget folks that she is in zone 7a. Although the difference between zones 7a & 7b is slight, it could make a difference in regards to this most tender of the Tea-Noisettes.

Ronda,

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want MN, then you've got to take a risk. Trust me, I understand how you feel. It IS a gorgeous rose with intoxicating fragrance and has more mystique than an X-Man movie. I lusted after it for years until I finally faced the fact that I could not have it. I even gave up on putting it in my Mom's zone 7b garden because it is too high maintenance of a rose.

Patrick

I live in North Georgia & I am buying this one for fall planting. (I have to have it.) I already have Graham thomas, and I have a building with a uncentered garage door, so I'm putting GT on the smaller side & MN on the big side.
All the comments are really scarey!
Would it be better to buy from Chanblees or Roses Unlimited?

I had this very thought (and the related concern); would have loved to try MN, but decided against due to the hardiness issue (appears the thing doesn't want to go dormant & might "wake up" during one of the freakish winter warm spells).

Am now debating whether to try Jaune Desprez, instead-it looks, on the basis of its heritage, that it might be somewhat more hardy; perhaps grafted (e.g.-from Pickering?) would serve better. Also seems it tolerates some shade, which means it might work in this pecan tree I have?

Jaune Desprez didn't survive 2006/2007 winter for me here. But you should be warmer, so can have a chance :)
For me it wasn't so resistant. Similar resistance to MAC I would say, which means naked by mid summer.
Olga

My MN at home (upsate SC - foothills of the Blue Ridge) is own root and now is close to 15' after four years and covers my arbor. I don't spray or irrigate my garden at home and it's as care free as any rose. In my 15 years of experience working with the rose it's about which clone you get. If the weather is very wet it will ball that is about it. So don't be afraid of an own root MN.

A question, Olga - how can a suburb of DC be zone 6b? While N. DE is 7a (or warmer, if new zone mapping is correct)? Are you that much more inland from the gulf stream? Or that much higher elevation?

I am North West of DC toward Frederick. My zip code and areas N and NW of me are classified as 6B zone. Very close to me, to the South, Rockvile is already 7a. Further NW in the mountains it is 6a.

By the way, big cities always make "warm bubble" and usually are at least half zone, more often whole zone or more, warmer rhen surrounding area.
Olga