Pat Austin is a water-hog, as commented in HMF. She finally gives out buds in my zone 5a, after a few heavy thunderstorms (all night & all day rain).

She's always thirsty, so I'll move mine to less sun to see if she would bloom more often. Last year it seemed like she only bloom after a deep rain (we had 49").

I am looking at Schultz fertilizer for acid-plants, it says, "Potassium helps form strong stems, fight disease, improves color, and reduces water needs - it also helps plants to use nitrogen." Pat Austin with its weak neck definitely could use more potassium.

My soil is deficient in potassium. EarthCo., which tested my soil, stated that 1/3 of soil is deficient in potassium, but magnesium deficiency is RARE. Unfortunately potassium and phosphorus stay put at the surface where they are applied, and don't move to root zone below like nitrogen (this is from EarhCo. booklet about soil chemistry).

So I use a soluble fertilizer high in potassium and phosphorus for my alkaline clay soil, and slow-released nitrogen and sulfur at the surface.

I've found that several DA roses are water hogs. Graham Thomas is ALWAYS the first to wilt if conditions are dry here.

Nodding blooms is nothing to be upset about, in my opinion. I love the color and LOVE the fragrance. In my garden she looks sad because the blackspot eats her up and then she loses canes each winter. I don't spray, but I keep her anyway for those lovely blooms. I've never watered my Austins any more than my other roses, but for the most part they do alright.

good input. Strawberry Hill, sounds like she needs potassium. I will experiment too with the watering. I know sometimes she looks great! and i'll bet that is after a heavy rain. aren't banana peels recommended for potassium?? I'll read more on this. Thanks!

seil, she is near Graham Thomas, but conditions can vary within even a few feet. I am going to heavy water her for a bit and see. thanks for the input.

cweathersby. her nodding blooms are beyond nodding. they are 'hiding shamefully'...i do love the nod of most, and when she is feeling better, it is more 'normal' for a nodder. and me too, i have never watered any rose more than another. Duchess de Brabant is my canary rose, when she wilts, others are soon to follow. BUT, i will experiment. She doesn't spot too badly, more just a general 'wilt' about her. and yes, the blooms are great! love the color. thanks!!

ok, out to water her and toss a banana peel her way!

I loved this rose. She was in constant bloom with occasional blackspot. I didn't mind the spotting because the blooms were so numerous. I lost her to a cane die-back disease and really miss her.

Like quite a few austins, they need a few years to put on some decent girth. I tend to be a bit vicious with early pruning as they are floppy as anything for the first three years then they tend to 'stiffen up' a bit. Always a head nodder, though.

...because it's a rubbish rose lol. I know the flowers are nice enough for the day before they shatter but it just constantly flops over. I have dug it out - I would replace it with a lady of shallotte if you want that colour.

I grew her ages ago. The only Austin rose I was ever disappinted with... her bloom color is lovely but she was very runty and the nodding blooms blew really fast. A pity, but when she succumbed to a severe winter, I didn't bother replacing her.

caldonbeck, might you add Spirit of Freedom to that category too? Although this might not even BE a rose, just a similar leaf and growth habit, but roses have BLOOMS! oh, the ultimate freedom for both perhaps...life is too short.

campanula, she is about five years old, my 'better' one, the other is two. too hot to plant much new these days, so i'll weigh in after summer and determine what to do. it is just almost sad to see her with such potential in color and NAME, for goodness sake!! isn't she david's wife??? geez!! was she a weak little rumpus of a woman, with such beauty, but such fraility too?? (brings me to wonder, did he ever name one for himself??? i don't recall one..) geez, we could start a whole other discussion here..."The marriages of famous rose breeders" ... I'd say Mr. and Mrs. B. R. Cant had a good marriage...

florida... glad she worked for you. wish i could pass her along to caring hands. just proves, what works for one may not work for another. i'll keep trying tho with the above tips!!! and i'll report my findings!

It's not a rubbish rose by any means--but it does seem to perform better in a warm climate. As for its thirst, I have mine on Fortuniana and it makes a HUGE difference. It is also I suspect a bit more disease resistant for this reason too. I am not a big Austin rose fan on the whole: the best of his stable seem to have pretty much the same bloom form, so they can be monotonous in this regard. But that's why I like PA--she is different from the others, something a little original both in the color and the loose form. She did take about three years even on Fort. to reach her potential. She was amazing this last month; I wish I had a picture for you. Now she is just past peak, though still blooming better than a lot of roses in my garden.

It was a great colour break in English roses when DA bred Pat but it is true, it has definately been superceded by Lady of Shallott or better (imo) Lady Emma Hamilton. Mine is much entangled with another slightly iffy Austin (although I know this is a big forum fave) Jude the Obscure. They manage to merge together quite harmoniously with a large number of Siberian Iris. I don't mind the scandalously feeble amount of foliage and unruly flailing about but I can quite see how infuriating either of these would be as single specimens without the added value of many supporting perennials, even a stout little exochorda to help them along. And compared to the ratty Falstaff,(another unfortunate choice for me), Pat is a veritable bloom machine.

rinaldo. how do you find out what stock these are on? what does DA put them on, at the tyler location? I asked my nursery (a good one) and they had no idea. not even 'the rose guy'. it isn't on the label, how does one find out? ( i presume the mail order places do know, but i like to NOT pay shipping when i can!)

camp. great information. i jotted the latter two down, LOS and LEH, to keep an eye open for. I would love to know your musings of favorite austins. and have heard the same about Falstaff. My Jude is not anything to brag about. For me? the performers are Benjamin Britton, Heritage, Glamis Castle, Lichfield Angel, The Dark Lady, Sophy's Rose...Sharifa Asma looks good this year, the first (five year old) that I've really noted. Have dozens more, sadly, I love the bloom, and am so non-plussed by 'reliable bushes' with ho-hum flowers. A real pickle!

I would imagine it is still on the list because of the name. I had mine for years, maybe 7 or 8 and it never got any better. I'm a big DA rose fan so for me to criticise one of them so harshly is testament to how little I like it lol. My favourites are Princess Anne, Munstead Wood, Ludlow Castle, Teasing Georgia and Princess Alexandra of Kent. I like Hyde Hall too for what it is, a large specimen plant which is massive but a big branching shrub rather than a lax spreading plant. My biggest disappointments lately are Englands Rose and William and Catherine - the latter is only in its first year though so who knows.

I miss my Pat Austin. I planted it in a semi-shady spot in my house in Columbus and it did incredible there. Despite having less sun than other roses, the rose went bonkers and was in near continuous bloom. The foilage was always spotless and I made numerous comments that it was the healthiest looking rose I have ever had with it's glossy green foilage and bright blooms. If I had any complaint about Pat Austin, it would be that the blooms tend to fry, the scent is kind of like pure tea, and Pat Austin grew a little TOO WELL since I didn't prune it back hard enough and it pumped out too many blooms to support itself. It's definitely one rose I really miss. I brought back cuttings to NW Ohio, but they died for completely unknown reasons. I'm contemplating pulling a covert operation this weekend to go to my old rental property and confiscate some clippings of my old Pat Austin which still grows on that property with zero maintenance like a champ.

Here she was with too many blooms to support herself after being in the ground for a year on the north side of the house.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.163027

Mine hasn't been too noddy since she was a baby. She's in a lot of partial shade, and I wonder if she's really straightening her neck to get more sun? In any case, it works! She is carefree for me, with great blooms. They still blow very easily, though. This one and Heritage, lol.

In my heat (bad) and the lower sun she gets, she also doesn't need water like my others, although her soil there holds it nicely, too. She's grafted on multiflora for me. I've never tried her ownroot.

jeffcat. great to know. i watered them both deeply, and pruned a bit of weight off, so I expect this will invigorate her. And I did note that her foliage is spotless. Already, she seems to, after 12 hours or so, have perked up. Yes, the weight of the blooms is alot, which you can hardly blame her for. I hope you can get your clippings...

meredith. I think a bit of shade is helpful to her. Mine are grafted too, have no idea on what. Glad to hear these good reports.

Thank you, Meredith and Jeffcat, for the report of Pat Austin does well in partial shade. Mine is in a dry and sunny spot, southern exposure. Yesterday in full sun, Pat's leaves were droopy, while Mary Magadalene and Radio Times were both perky and happy (these two like heat).

Someone in these forums stated that Pat does well with more gentle morning sun, like the east. I'll move mine own-root Pat to the north side, where it's really wet. The only reason I keep her is her glossy, disease-free foliage. My soil is deficient in potassium, so Pat doesn't have that deep brilliant orange.

Knowing what I know from Pat before and how easily the blooms crisp, I would plant her somewhere on the east side of a house on the north side of the house where a dormer or something along those lines shades it from noon to 4 so it gets morning and evening sun. I know in Ohio, almost all my blooms crisp in the intense sunlight, including Pat Austin, so it's just something you kind of acknowledge and live with as most of the Austin blooms are "thin petaled" and don't take the heat well.

The nodding bloom is such a charming aspect of Pat's beauty and her color, such a pretty strawberry blond with a bashful pout.

Two days later, and she is looking much better. She WAS thirsty. I trimmed her up a bit and watered deeply and both of mine are doing better. I will just have to remember that. And the nod is now more normal. So, I withdraw my shovel and now if we could just get Spirit of Freedom to cooperate, I'd be in DA heaven!