If you cut the type 3 back, they will repeat. Veilchenblau blooms later than some of my ramblers. (I no longer have Veilch secondary to RRD) but it is a beautiful rose and I do believe it will bloom about the same time as most of the group 3. However, by cutting it back after it blooms, it will repeat and your once bloomers will have some clematis blooming through intermittently.

Alas you were certainly not sure what you were thinking when you planted clematis with roses. The person who came up with that idea is still in a mental institute for the criminally insane. Have fun cutting the clematis down or even back. The only think positive about this scenario is that you will not need to fertilize, your extreme loss of blood will do it for you.

The one good side of this, Lynette, is the paucity of thorns on Veilchenblau.

Perhaps my original question was not worded so well. Will I have rose flowers AND clematis flowers at the same time? Or will I have clematis flowers before the roses or will the clematis flowers come after the roses? Thanks.

Robert

I say that you'll have clematis after the ramblers are finished. Using Duchess of Albany as an example, type III texensis, I have blooms on her in July and August.

Connie

I don't know when your roses bloom but Type III blooms sometime in June around here. The best darned authority I can recommend to you is Silver Star vinery. If you email them you are likely to get a personal reply.

BTW, I don't think it's such a bad idea to put Type III with roses -- the only pruning required is clear cutting the entire vine a bit above the base. You can leave the thin dead last year's vines to just disintegrate in the climber -- not that noticeable.

It depends somewhat on your climate and when the ramblers bloom. Some of my type 3's bloom when they are "supposed" to and some of them bloom a little earlier. As a general rule they bloom in June.

BTW, pruning type 3 clematis and removing them from roses is very easy. Just cut them off about 12 inches from the ground, grab the cut ends and pull them out of the bush. No blood sacrifice required.

Carol

Exactly what Carol said. I have no idea why people do not prune their type 3 that way. In fact, Jason at Petals from the Past, prunes all his clematis, no matter what type when he prunes his roses for the clematis it is planted with and they do as well or better than any that I have ever seen anywhere. Some myths shot to haedes and back about clematis and it's a good thing.

Robert, I think what I was trying to say to you is that not all ramblers bloom at the same time, even multiflora and not all clematis bloom at the exact same time, not even type 3. They do, however, bloom in the same season and sometimes my rose will be almost finished blooming (New Dawn) when I see Jack M blooming its head off. My multiblue blooms a week before Crepuscule and Blue Angel blooms about the same time as Jaune Desprez. Sometimes I have clematis blooming right along with roses, sometimes not. Even my ramblers do not all bloom at the same time and exposure to sunlight, I am sure, is some of it but the other is probably the fluctuation in weather. If something is starting to bud and we get a freeze, something is going to be delayed. It's worth all the effort to wait and see, even if you have to play with it, but don't try to move the clematis, as that might not work out, but I have noticed that my azaleas which in the first 5 years bloomed at all different times, as they have gotten older, all seem to bloom simultaneously. Not sure what that is, but sometimes it just works out, but whether or not that ever works for you, do not lose hope or faith that your garden will be splenderiferous. I have 4 different clematis in Parade and seem to always have something blooming. I have a couple different white clematis planted with American Pillar and they bloom at different times. It's called gardening and the end result is eye candy, and lots of it. Simultaneously and overlapping beauty is beauty, nonetheless.

Patricia and others,

That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I'll just plant more clematis varieties...therefore, something should be blooming at all times. I'm not a gardener who is wedded to a plan...and, the idea of moving a clematis hadn't occured to me...that sounds like work.

Thanks

Robert

I have found that sometimes the clems bloom with the roses and sometimes they don't. How's that for helpful?
If they bloom after, it extends the beauty of the area, if they bloom together, it makes feel like singing (and if you know how I sing, this is not a good thing for anyone but me).

I usually prune the roses first, and then prune the clems, 12-18" from the ground. CarolFM is very smart, we agree on so much.

Carol

I think I just might need to plant two different types of clematis on each rose to help guarantee an extended bloom season.

Robert

Robert,
Since we are fairly close zone wise, I will share my experience. I grow type 3 viticelli clematis. Last year they bloomed after my main June flush of roses. The clems were beginning in late June.

My once bloomers (Alba and Gallica) start a bit ahead of my moderns and would be finished just as the clematis began.

You can decide if Ramblers are scheduled like other once bloomers. Maybe the folks here can be more specific.

One of the finest rose gardens in New England (now defunct) had row after row of old ramblers & climbers interspersed with various kinds of clematis. It was quite the gorgeous wonderland, though very labor-intensive.

I grow Rose-Marie Viaud in my garden and Bleu Magenta in my mother's garden. Both of these are a little later blooming than the once bloomers and Austins, a week or two later to start. I have a vitacella clematis Huldine planted with Rose-marie. In this case the rose starts blooming first, and then the clematis starts, but there is some overlap in some years. It will vary year to year due to the heat and clematis variety too. Type IIIs are easy to prune because you can just chop them down and pull out all the dead stuff. If you want more of an overlap of bloom, I have some earlier type IIs such as Belle of Woking blooms earlier with the roses, though that one isn't supposed to be pruned hard. I also find that the clematis Candida starts a bit earlier than the other large-flowered varieties and overlaps in bloom with Etoile de Holland, which is an early-blooming climber.

I'm certainly getting a lot of good information from this thread. I am very excited to see what's going to happen in my garden this year. The clematis are definitely popping up now, and most of the roses are starting to leaf out. I'm still a little anxious, however, that we'll get a repeat of last year's Easter Freeze....(maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it).

Robert

Robert,
we need an acronym for the F that shall not be mentioned.
Up thread, there was mention that the multiflora ramblers bloom before (and that fits here), but I wonder if the climbing version of The Fairy would be that later bloomer (because The Fairy is a later bloomer than most polys which bloom more in line with the multiflora ramblers). And I think May Queen is a later bloomer multiflora rambler (and is a parent of The Fairy.)

'Cl. The Fairy' blooms in midseason, with repeated small flushes through fall. I've been thinking of giving mine the heave-ho because it's about 20 yrs old & getting less productive (but I'll probably end-up keeping it). About 'May Queen'-- it depends what version we're talking about. The Van Fleet version starts in midseason, with scattered rebloom later. The Manda version is a once-bloomer, starting early midseason (about the time of 'Mrs. F.W. Flight')

Yes, Ann is exactly right about The Fairy and NERoseman regards May Queen. I am not "in love" with The Fairy but it does provide bloom when others are shedding petals, and May Queen is a "surprise" when it blooms, to have all that glory at an unexpected time.

I'm new to the GW and I'm learning a lot. I've ordered roses and clematis so that I can grow them together. What I didn't realized was that clematis had different types. I'm going to have to do some research on the various kinds that I've ordered to find out there type; some are double flowers. Once they're established, does any one have advice on how to propagate them?

I have heirlooms that I've ordered too. Any advice on how to get them established in the garden? I've ordered them over the Internet. The last time I ordered over the Internet before they went out of business (The Uncommon Rose-Cardinal Richelieu & Armide)I had really good luck with them. They are still doing very well, and I live in Arizona!I have not planted any clematis with my heirlooms yet, but I have ordered them so that I could.

I'll take any advice I can get for the heirloom roses and the clematis. Thanks in advance.

Loretta
aka Bethany and Jonathon's grandma :o)

Loretta,

I think roses and clemaatis are made for one another. I don't know about your climate zone, but I would imagine you can grow just about any of the roses and any of the clematis.

One thing I've read regarding double clematis is that that the double flowers come on old growth of type II clematis. (Clematis come in three pruning types: Type I-don't prune, Type II-prune lightly--dead canes, etc., Type III-prune hard...down to about 12 "). In the event you prune the type II hard, i.e., down to about 12-18 inches, you might sacrifice the "double" flowers, but the clematis should still produce single flowers on the new growth)...someone with actually experience should chime in and let us know how wrong I am in this information...I'm trying.

Robert