Jerome----You have so many unusual roses. I wish you success with all of them
It is still too cold here in Pa. to garden plus I still can't walk very well but it will be interesting in the spring to visit with my survivors.

Florence

Jerome, that's a pretty alarming syndrome. You're not fertilizing them when you plant, are you? It takes something pretty unusual to kill a growing rose. Have you checked the roots for rodent damage?

Florence, lovely to "hear" your voice. Hope your spring comes soon, with no frosts, and that you can gambol about your roses like a teenager as you contemplate the best spring flush you've ever had.

Cass...heh heh heh...oops. Well, yes, I am fertilizing them as I plant. Usually it has been Mills Mix but I did use some high nitrogen stuff at one point this season (I am not even going to tell you what...because I am so embarrassed...but the nitrogen number was *drum roll* 29...)

I will say that I have never lost roses before (with Mills Mix I mean...I never tried the lawn stuff before this year) with this treatment. Please advise.

Abashedly,

Jerome

Jerome, i have noticed the same. It seems the thicker and harder(maybe hardwood cuttings), do better than the tiny thin limp(softwood cuttings?). However I do see a limp one that i thought i lost(top growth disappeared), seems to have a little green growth slightly below the surface.Last spring i planted numerous bands and some were just so tiny they died. I done a very dangerous thing last fall by ordering several bands and planted them. I actually think the ones planted in the fall may do better than the spring planted, but winter isn't over yet.

Jerome, your problem may well have been the high nitrogen.
On some forum a few years ago someone expressed the belief that you really CAN'T kill roses that way.

I begged to differ. I have done it -- and it wasn't little band plants either. It was a well-grown 5-G Portland that cost $35.

That said, I lost several plants last year.
Some were fairly small, some ready to come out of a 5-G, and some that had been growing in the ground for years.
All of them withered from the ground up -- a painful process to watch, and seemingly irreversible.

Jeri

Are you planting bands directly into the ground? Perhaps you should put them in pots until they get bigger. I have 4 bands from last spring that I am going to remove from their 3 gal pots and plant in the ground this spring. They are about 5 X larger than they were as bands.

I just received 12 bands from Vintage. I don't plan on planting them in the ground until next spring.

And no fertilizer beyond a little miracle gro.

Jerome--I always plant my Vintage bands in 1 gallon containers immediately upon receipt of them. I then wait a few months until I see a nice growth spurt. Then I plant them in the ground. I have never had a problem planting them this way, but I must emphasize that there must be substantial growth showing or I wait. Sometimes this means that the roses stay in the pot for 4 to 6 months, though rarely do I have to wait so long. Better luck to you in the future...

I wish you as much joy with your Perle as mine has brought me. I found a baby Rosette Delizy when cleaning pots. Maybe this year will be better Jerome, for everyone and our roses.

Carla

I'm glad that your Niles Cochet is doing well. Michael and I went to the site of the old nursery where this rose was produced. We heard that it had nothing to do with the Cochets that the nursery was just trying to cash in on the popularity of Maman Cochet. Niles is a fun town, all antique stores. In the old days Charlie Chaplin produced films there.

I've been fortunate to have escaped any rose losses, but I have to say the most pleasant surprise has been the beautiful, exhuberant growth of my Safrano this spring. The new (totally healthy) foliage is a stunning color, making me so much more appreciative of the beauty of an entire plant, rather than focusing exclusively on blooms.
Molly

+++Rosette Delizy is one of the most amazing roses around.+++

I keep reading how wonderful this rose is. What do you like best about it, Jerome?

Molly, your 'Safrano' sounds great. I know exactly what you mean by the beauty of "an entire plant", rather than just "blooms", and I wholeheartedly agree with you. I saw a 'Safrano' at the Fort Worth Botanical Garden last fall and was taken by the beauty of the entire plant, as well as its charming blooms.

Randy

Hi everyone...I am in a rush now...but just to answer some questions, in no particular order.

Rosette Delizy - I love it because:
The foliage for me is a dark blue-green
the growth is super dense and shrubby
The flowers smell fruity and are gorgeous - subtle
Great for picking.
The mature one I have seen at the Huntington carries all these qualities into maturity.

Yes Jeri, I think the nitrogen did it...also possibly putting too much Mills Mix right on top and suffocating the roots(?)...I was a dunderhead.

Buford, I have always put bands right into the ground and never had a problem. Actually I have had more problems with the bands I have potted than when I put them right into the ground.

Pam - Niles is a dream. I love this rose.

Molly, Safrano sounds lovely.

Ooops there's my bell...gotta go.

Love y'all

+++Rosette Delizy is one of the most amazing roses around.+++
I keep reading how wonderful this rose is. What do you like best about it, Jerome?

*** May I step in? We have grown this rose for 20 years, and it remains one of my favorites.
There are several clones of Rosette Delizy. The ARE clone is the most colorful, tho it may take longer than others to establish.
I'm not sure about its performance in the SE.
In Southern California it is absolutely disease-free.
In very hot weather, the colors fade out to pastel, but for the most part here, this is a very colorful rose (ARE Clone).
After 20 years, it's a good 18 ft. tall, and easily 10 ft. wide.
{{gwi:228573}}

I can't speak to what it would do in your conditions, but for my conditions, this is a bulletproof rose.

Jeri

I really enjoy ordering bands. The selection is incredible......I do baby mine for some time. Pot them up in good potting soil in 1 gallon pots. My greenhouse didnt get properly set up last year, so I have these 2 plastic covered greenhouses from Big Lots that I put them in. This protects them from the wind which dries out the canes/leaves and is not good for the plant. Also, it protects them from surprise freezes. They are in the sun, get watered and brought out on nice days. I dont fertilize for a long while with anything but fish emulsion. They are growing really well right now. Good luck with yours.
Judith

I just received an order of bands from Vintage. It does say to put in pots for a few months. And only use a mild liquid fertilizer.

If you have good conditions, you can probably plant in the ground, but I am struggling with possible drought conditions, so I prefer to pot them up first.

Rosette Delizy so far has been almost totally blackspot free in my yard, as have my other teas, Marie d'Orleans and Mlle Franziska Kruger. That's why I ordered 12 more teas! Everything gets bs in my yard, so it's a good test ground. Who knows, maybe one day I will have a total no spray garden.

My RdL is a baby, but it put out a growth spurt late last summer. So I'm looking forward to it getting big this year and pumping out a lot of blooms. The few I got last year were wonderful. My Marie d'Orleans so far has done the best, she's now almost 4ft wide, but only about 2 1/2 tall. All were from Ashdown and were planted in summer 2006.

Beautiful picture of Rosette Delizy, Jeri! Glad to know about such a beautiful rose ... yet another :)

Ya'll, how much room are you allowing between your teas? I've read everything from 6-8 feet to other places 3 feet, allowing them to grow into each other.

Good Lord Jeri! That's gorgeous!! What are they? Please, especially that one on the right.

Jerome

jerome, sorry to hear about the losses, but very happy indeed to hear of the pleasant surprises.

I had my first bloom yesterday, on one of my new bands from Vintage. The winner this year is Mrs. B. R. Cant. I'm sure it's better to pinch the buds, but I was so desperate to see and smell a rose I let her go. What a delight! I love the color, and the scent is wonderful. I'm very pleased. Of the bands, everyone is doing well in their pots; the most growth has been on Grandmother's Hat, I think she is going to be very happy here.

Most of my other roses are now starting into their second year. I went ahead and pruned at the end of December, and this year that seems to have been okay as we made it through Jan and Feb without a freeze, so everyone is doing fine. Thanks to good advice from everyone here on the forum, (and especially luanne, who was kind enough to give me some great advice for winter care), the roses are exploding with wonderful, healthy growth.

I've learned (and am learning) so much from everyone here. Already I'm getting the reputation as "the rose guy", and am now helping no less than 4 other neighbors with their roses. This is how it starts.. right? :)

Here's to a wonderful new season for us all.

Jeri, I want those roses to grow in my living room! What are they, please? how far apart are they planted - that looks 6-8 feet?

beautiful dog. and the guy with the beard looks friendly!

wow Jeri those roses are gorgeous! I'm so excited that we might actually be able to come visit the cemetery this year. I love your dog (I'm guessing it's your dog?) - he's gorgeous! Which brings me to something my DH has been wanting me to ask but I've been hesitant - are dogs allowed at the cemetery?

Aprille

Jeri? Are you out there? What are those lovely specimens...besides Clay and the doggie, that is...

blendguy, yes that's how it starts. Most of my neighbors tell me they are just happy to sit back and watch the show in my yard. Lazy people!

For what it is worth, Jerome, I have had bands do the same thing and they were potted up and not fertilized. I've also had bands that started the black die back, shriveled thing as soon as I took them out of the box! I wonder sometimes if the rose just wasn't healty to begin with?

Pleasant surprises, SdlM Rouge and Devoniensis. Those tiny bands just took off this year and made nice bushes and bloomed all of the time.

Carol

Jerome:
I stayed on the phone ordering the unusual roses, and at one time I had over 100 antique tea roses. Well, I think the "hard to find" roses that we order (usually in bands due to shipping in my case) are hard to find for a reason...they don't grow well. I had many die or maybe grow for one season looking good then fail the second season. My direction starting this season is to forget the rare roses and go for the tried and true that most nurseries carry.

Save room in your garden for the angels to dance!

Jean

AH! I see those roses caught everyone's eye! NOW do you see why I want everyone who can to visit that cemetery?

I'm pretty sure that the near one is Mons. Tillier, and the far, white one is Le Pactole.
That plant is the first I ever saw of Le Pactole. This is the rose Fred Boutin found in a dirt lot, in Sonora, CA.
The "mother" plant is now long-gone.
He collected it, thinking it was a miniature, which might make a nice short hedge.
It turned out to be THIS.

You know, the Pactole is the river in which King Midas is said to have washed away the curse of the golden touch.
As you see, it has a distinct yellow cast. I think it's a cross of Lamarque and the (lost) Smith's Yellow Tea.

{{gwi:238018}}

The Mons. Tillier (of commerce) at the Cemetery is the best I've seen anywhere.
FWIS, I'd estimate that these two are on at least 6-ft centers. Might even be 8-10 ft.

Jeri

Thanks Jeri, for the info and those wonderful photos.

Jerome, you crack me up. Is now the right time to mention that I've never killed a rose by not fertilizing it? The easiest way to fry a rose is with fertilizer. Sure, you can fertilize bands when you plant them, but I stick to time release if the weather is cool or organic ferts applied moderately if it isn't. After they show new growth is the time for extra dilute water soluble (like less than half strength). I plant bareroots with nothing except time release ferts.

In my part of the country, where we are in an almost perpetual drought, the window for applying granular fertilizer is about two weeks in early March. Earlier than that, I risk polluting the groundwater. Later than that and it's too late to be watered into a well-watered plan by the last rain of the season.

Berndoodle, I don't understand. Are you saying that you tend to get heavy rains during Feb and that's why your groundwater might be polluted by a granular fertilizer through being washed into sewers or into creeks?

Jeri, are you advising then to have fewer teas and let them grow to full size than to have to cut them back so as to have more? I've read several places of rosarians growing their roses so they "embrace" each other. I'm trying to figure out which is the right thing to do.

Jeri, I'm surprised at how pink Monsieur Tillier is. I had thought it had more of an apricot coloring. At any rate, I'll be able to find out next month when I visit the cemetery, thanks to your description of its beauty.

For what it's worth, I've never potted on a band and have not lost a single one by planting it straight into the ground, although there are one or two laggards (the prime example being the infamous Ley's Perpetual). I tend to think it depends on the soil and climate one is gardening in, and I consider myself fortunate that it seems to work for me.

By the way, Jeri, thanks for enabling me into IHT. It's blooming for the second time after being in the ground for some months and I love the color. I couldn't have found a better plant for my purple garden area.

I have been fertilizing bands that have put on new growth with alfalfa meal. Is this an okay thing to do? I haven't seen any adverse effects but would appreciate others' opinions.

Regards,

Ingrid

Thinking it over, I'm going to recant.
I don't think that IS Mons. Tillier. I think it is Mme. Lombard.
I bet when Anita comes back, she'll confirm that.

I'm glad you like IHT! I don't know how it does in other climates, but it's sure a prize in Southern California.

And I think it's probably OK to use alfalfa meal on bands -- but why not just pot them up? I worry about things remaining in bands from the point of view of moisture retention -- particularly with the dry winds we've been having. We put 'em in 1-G as soon as possible.

A couple of months back, we potted some 1-Gs into 5-G, and now they look like they're ready for the ground. But I know they don't have enough root down there yet.

Jeri

If it is Mme. Lombard, I can hardly wait for my 2 year olds to mature! That's gorgeous.

Jerome