I haven't bought roses at Sam's Club. I CAN tell you when Arena had the contract to produce roses for Walmart (who owns Sam's Club), as soon as the contract was signed, they shopped it around to other producers to under cut him and force him into lower prices. We all know where Arena is now. Every time you purchase a rose from a big box store you COULD have bought from one of our specialty nurseries, you drive another nail into their coffins.

I ONLY buy a rose I can NOT buy from a Vintage, Burlington, etc. from other sources. Even then, those I buy from a local NURSERY, not a Walmart, Sam's Club, Home Depot or Lowe's. Business is tough enough. Remaining IN business is virtually impossible for the "little guys" who have been maintaining the wonderful things we love to grow for so long. Loyalty demands we support them. Pumping more money into the corportations whose main goals are to destroy any competition (which Walmart does every time they enter a market) and drive out the mom and pop businesses is shameful. All of those older HTs you named are available from mom and pop sources. Yes, Sam's Club has lower prices, but you are going to get what you have paid for....no attention paid to making sure what you received IS the variety you wished to buy; NO attention paid to maintaining the integrity and health of the variety of rose offered and NO first hand information from someone who actually grows and knows the rose. Cheaper ain't always better. Kim

I have to agree with Kim about supporting the small nurseries. Often you will receive smaller plants because that is how they help you save money on shipping cost. These nurseries are often more customer service oriented because they are building a relationship with their customers. Of course, they need our business and support to stay in the market, but the most important part is that they care about our satisfaction.

Beyond that issue, I think it is important to start out with a healthy plant whenever you go to the trouble to dig a rose hole and plant a rose that is intended to be a part of your garden for a long time. Bottom line, it's easier to work with a healthy plant than to save a stressed plant.

The roses I have seen at Lowe's, Home Depot and K-Mart all were second grade roses and all would have needed TLC to help them come back from being totally stressed plants to being healthy garden plants.

The roots were chopped, the canes were waxed and many times were placed in the more shady parts of the garden center, or even inside. The roses are not watered properly and are basically very much in need of serious TLC.

I know how to bring a rose back from being near dead, but I would rather work with a plant that doesn't have all of those problems to overcome. I have a much better chance of success when planting a new rose in my garden, or even potting it up to allow it to grow a larger root mass ... and the plant will be productive sooner when I start with a healthy rose.

Smiles,
Lyn

Everytime you buy a second-rate, ill-cared-for rose at Sam's Club, Wal-Mart, Lowe's or Home Depot, you put another spike in the coffin of a reasonable supply of good-quality roses from knowledgeable suppliers.

Moreover, we have bought such plants, on a whim, and not one of them survived for the long haul.

Follow Kim's advice:
Go to a GOOD local nursery, where you will find a good supply of plants of decent quality.
OR order by mail from a specialty vendor, who will be happy to answer your questions.

Jeri in Southern California

All the roses I've ever seen at Sam's Club were inferior roses in poor packaging. I'd only buy them if I had a few $$ I want to throw away. I agree with those above, buy good roses from reliable nurseries.
A previous thread about Roses at Aldi!! pretty well summed it up and if you read the source of the Sam's Club roses, they probably come from the same place.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses at Aldi!!

We have similar "bargains" here in SoCal. I have laughed myself silly over mini tree roses which were obviously Rise'n Shine labeled R. Foetida. I have seen pallets of roses which were mixed Betty Prior and Knock Out all labeled Betty Prior. Lowe's in Northridge, Ca had two tables last spring of two gallon, grade 2 HTs of various colors all labeled Helmut Schmidt. That was a glaring mistake as most of them were in flower. Years ago, I was losing my budded plant of The Doctor and had no root stock available. At the local Home Depot were body bag roses and they had some which had the correct photo and name of The Doctor. I paid $6 each for two of them. One broke dormancy and exhibited either Round Up or RRD symptoms. I dumped it ASAP. The second broke dormancy without any odd symptoms and flowered Paradise.

I have seen MANY patented roses dumped in these stores bearing labels of unpatented roses simply to dump product and avoid paying royalties. Bit Lots in Valencia, Ca, the year Arena went out of business, had huge boxes of Poulsen landscape roses which were initially Arena exclusives. There wasn't anything else on the market which resembled them and all were own root, the way Arena produced them. All tags had been cut off and the box bore no identity other than to say, "Roses". They were being sold for $4 each and were simply dumped into the box with nothing to keep them damp.

You'll find "bargain" and "cheap" roses everywhere. These retailers prey on the uninformed, inexperienced gardeners and do such a tremendous disservice to the business and the people who are motivated to buy the plants to either "save" them or take advantage of the "bargain". Occasionally, someone does get a decent plant with the proper name but that is too often the exception than the rule. And, as I stated earlier, every dollar you throw at these businesses not only encourages them to offer similar atrocities but seals the fate of one more specialty nursery. We have lost FAR too many of them and the selection remaining is dwindling much too rapidly. Way too frightening!

The funniest ones of the bunch are the dead bare-root roses which have often been sold, in early summer, at the 99-Cent Store.

Yeah, 99-Cents is cheap for a rose.
BUT it is pretty pricey for a DEAD rose, and about 75% of the ones I've seen were very, very dead.

Jeri

It may be a little early in the year for these roses to be dead yet? But, any rosebush stored and sold indoors soon drys out and will most likely be dead.That's my experience with Sam's, Menards, etc. Inside, they never get watered, and seldom do when displayed outside.

And the ones stored outside get hit by the first frost and killed since the store employees don't know any better. I've often thought I should walk up to the store manager and make a deal that my salary for the summer would be the wholesale price of any stock that I saved this year over what they tossed out last year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog.

I go to Costco. The bare roots arrived few days before Christmas and they are still selling them along with fruit trees. They are stored inside and never get watered. They are completely dead by now.

I still see people buying them. Some times, I walk to the people and tell them not to buy them. Five/or six years ago I was one of those people and bought 8-9 package of double roses. Needless to say that they did not make it. I had a hard time getting a refund. That said, it is then that I learned of this forum and learned soooooo much from you guys.

If the plants aren't too far gone and IF you know what you're doing, you CAN resurrect some of these plants. MANY years ago when Voodoo and Mikado were first introduced, the retailer I worked for took back several bare roots from a "rosarian customer". One, the "expert" had split from the crotch of the roots to the bud union. How? I have no idea other than someone played "make a wish" with it because the wound was fresh. The other had been left in the body bag, admittedly on a sunny, warm kitchen counter where it received sun from the window. Both were stupidity at their greatest and it angered me they refunded such idiotic returns. I took them to my boss and told her she had two choices, throw them in the dumpster where they were sure to end up, or sell them both to me for $1, which she did. I bound the split rootstock shank and buried both of the plants in damp mulch for two weeks before planting them in nursery cans with cylinders full of mulch very much like mounding them after planting. It was FUN taking her a bouquet of those roses from the 'dead' bare roots the "expert" had returned.

It isn't that these plants can't be saved, IF they aren't already fully murdered. But, unless trying to salvage them is fun for you, why waste the time and money? Rewarding such stupid merchandising by giving them money for doing it only reinforces that they CAN get away with it. How many retailers do you know of who have stopped offering bare roots because they were unprofitable, much less nursery stock in general? Around here, many are no longer in that business. Nationally, Target doesn't sell out door plants any more because they lost money on them.

Most retailers don't care if the plants live or die and your complaining to them about it is simply a temporary annoyance which will correct nothing. Several years ago, Walmart was the only source in my area for Serenade, the organic, bacterial fungicide. I used it and bought it for friends who didn't have that source near them. Over the Christmas holidays, I needed the stuff and Walmart in Santa Clarita didn't have it. I spoke with the "garden manager" on several occasions. He stated they wouldn't have it until spring, and went on to further complain that he'd bitterly complained to the buying office that they were selling approximately $500 a week in nursery stock, yet were receiving $5,000 a week in plant deliveries, mostly "dumping" from Hines Horticultural. He wasn't ordering any of it. The Walmart buying office was ordering mass quantities of the plants and dumping them in the stores at the height of the freezing, winter weather. He stated they were filling dumpsters daily with dried out, frozen and dead plants. No one at the store level could prevent it. Corporate created that monster and obviously didn't care.

Home Depot uses a payment method called SCAN. When nursery stock is brought into a store, none of it is paid for until it passes through the cash register. If it dies, they return it for credit. If none of that order ever sells, they NEVER pay for it. It gets charged back to whomever they bought it from. There is no motivation to keep it watered nor to provide it any essential care. It will never be paid for unless a customer buys it. Why spend any money maintaining it? Other than space and opportunity costs, there are no consequences if they don't keep the plants alive and retail worthy. With the volume they do; with the draw fresh plants (received at least weekly) have to bring people through that end of the store where some are purchased without any real expertise, experience and knowledge available; and the fact they don't have to spend any money on the material to maintain it because they don't have to pay for it unless it sells, WHAT would make anyone think they would provide any care for the plants? They have succeeded in treating a perishable as if it is a brick and they can get away with it. There are enough uninformed people ready to take advantage of a "good deal" to make it worth their while continuing doing it.

The big box stores are the only ones doing any real business in the horticultural field these days. Look around at the nurseries and garden centers which have been near you for years and who aren't there any more. That makes the premium growers willing to do business with them, even though they KNOW they'll never get paid for their products, because none of their core business, the mom and pop nurseries and the solid line garden centers aren buying because no one is buying from THEM. They're all going to Home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart and their like because they can get plants for nothing compared to the "outrageous" prices the nurseries who KNOW something about the plants "over charge" them for. I have seen it here in Los Angeles for years and continue to. We have an old line garden center chain here which offers some wonderful things, but they charge more for their plants then the big box stores because they grow some of them; they MAINTAIN them; they KNOW all about them. Yet, so many of our local consumers complain they are SO over priced because they can save fifty cents on a six pack of similar petunias at Home Depot. Perhaps you find some horticultural knowledge at YOUR big box store, but it doesn't exist in the San Fernando and Santa Clarita Valley ones.

Irate? Yes, I am. I hate that over half the rose varieties I could buy immediately two years ago, I can't buy at all now. I hate the loss of local nursery sources leaving me with fewer and fewer until what the big box stores offer is all that's left. Each time I hear someone complain that a source is more expensive than Home Depot or Lowe's I want to scream.

Long ago, we ran into one of the older local Consulting Rosarians. He had a "retirement" job in the nursery of a local Home Depot.
Great guy, and honest as all getout.
He would tell you flat out: "DO NOT buy roses here."
He said -- from HD, you buy mulch, and maybe potting soil, and grass seeds, fertilizers, pots, and the like -- BUT YOU DON'T BUY ROSES AT HOME DEPOT.
He was so right.

Jeri

Ruth,
You asked a good question...before you went out and bought anything you made the effort to get more information. I tend to agree with the posters here who are so loyal to the specialty nurseries, but I also understand the temptation to gamble on one of those body bag roses. I imagine many people on this site have given them a try. Most continue to learn what works best for their favorite flower, and people on this site are usually very helpful and informative.

Buying body bag roses has worked for me at times..my body bag Frederick Mistral and Comtesse de Provence are two of my best roses. Best plants in terms of vigor. But winning the lottery on these two creates the gambler's dynamic..the wish to get back much more in proportion to what is put in, and the wish to beat the odds. Early in spring when you're starved for flowers you see those bags all lined up with the pretty pictures and you get tempted. I tried them enough times that I realized they are USUALLY mislabelled, have chopped roots, don't thrive, and the waxed canes don't work well for me. I gave them a glance a week ago at Lowe's but was barely tempted. The specialty nurseries do offer roses that are tilted the other way...USUALLY they do well, but they're not perfect.

You have a couple of rose nurseries in your area that have wonderful plants...Chamblees and The Antique Rose Emporium in Brennan. I would love to visit the ANtique Rose Emporium in spring. I am not sure when peak bloom time is there but it should be spectacular. If you went to Brennan you could also stop in at the Blue Bell ice cream plant. Chamblees has very good prices. In case you're not familiar with it, this site, www.helpmefind.com/roses provides excellent information and pictures, and if you click on the " buy from" tab at the top, you will get a list of specialty nurseries that offer the rose you are looking for. Sometimes there are comments that are helpful, but you always have to take other people's experience with a particular rose with some caution because it could be due to any number of things why it didn't do well for them or why they didn't like it.

As far as the roses you mentioned goes..I don't cut roses often but Fragrant Cloud does very well here and I love it..it lasts well on the plant. Same with Oklahoma, which is one of the most beautiful reds in my opinion, with a powerful fragrance.

Another thing about the body bags..they are almost all grafted plants. There are many threads on this site about the differences between grafted and own-root plants.
I prefer own-root but some varieties do better grafted.

happy gardening,
Linda

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
erasmus, I am familiar with Chamblee's and Antique Rose Emporium.
But I usually like the Hybrid Teas that they don't carry.
Actually you can buy roses for $2.00 each all around the Tyler area.
I tried a couple a long time ago and got the same results as all the comments.
Not what it was supposed to be and didn't make it anyway.

I bought Granada and Fragrant Cloud earlier this year from Sam's Club as part of their fragrance collection. The plants themselves are doing fine in spite of being waxed stems and in body bags when I got them. I did have to baby them, but they are doing well. However, the flowers are NOT fragrant at all!!! I have 5 others fragrant roses that are fragrant to their type.

The flowers appear to be the same type as Granada and Fragrant Cloud (color and form), however, the lack of fragrance bothers me. I bought them because I wanted the fragrance and now I don't want to spade prune two plants who are doing fine and producing flowers very well.

Similar problems are with Mirandy and Miss All American Beauty that I got from Home Depot.

Any suggestions on how to improve the fragrance of a rose, whose cultivar is supposed to be fragrant? BTW, I am in Zone 9, Southeast Louisiana.

Thank you for your time.

I know this is an age-old discussion here, that ends up in many threads and elicits much passion. But it's really hard to read this without putting my 2 cents in.

Now - I agree, it's foolish (or perhaps stronger word needed) to buy a dead rose. And from the big stores, some are better than others, and granted some are horrid, about the care of their roses.

My single income supports 2 people (one disabled), 20 horses, 3 dogs, 4 inside cats, and about 10 stray outside cats. Pure economics - I just can't go out and fill my yard with good nursery roses. Am I not supposed to be able to have a garden full of roses to enjoy. I read like a crazy woman everything I can on their care. I choose carefully. I pamper the heck out of them. And I love them dearly. My average price is $6 per rose - not because I want it to be - but because that's just the way it is.

Now fortunately, or unfortunately, my next roses will need to be more expensive purchases because of my desire to expand into roses that cannot be purchased in the places I have previously purchased. I am now at a place where I'm ok with one at a time, and building up a budget for each one. But the 50+ mostly cheapy's I have now - I wouldn't give up a single one of them.

Harmonyp,

I completely agree with you about doing what is best for your wallet. You really have a kind heart and perhaps your roses like it and their growth reflects it. I sincerely believe that plants and animals have an inane ability to see our inside and react towards us accordingly.

I think the main theme of most of the comments is to buy the best you can, and support the true rose lover's (the nurseries) as much as possible. Sometimes our wallets force us to act otherwise.

I really don't care about the wallymart that much, but I end up going there because certain items are really cheap there and shopping for those saves me a bunch at the end of the month. I know that probably hurts a small mom and pop business, but my wallet almost forces me to overlook that. I try to reduce my shopping there to the bare minimum for that reason. I wish I could stop going there.

Anyway, does someone know why my supposedly intensely fragrant roses from sams and hd are not fragrant, even if they appear to the be the right cultivar?

Thanks.

Lets face it, there are two sides here: the loving rose expert who wants to grow the very best, and
THE MASS MARKET.
Roses sold in body bags are produced on the farm version of a factory. They are what they are. Some of them are better than others.
Roses produced for the very interested rose specialist are given better care and are produced especially for the discerning. There is no doubt that they are better plants.

Here is a link to a youtube video that shows the Walmart clientele. These are the people that buy the body bags. I don't think they'll be going to a specialty rose supplier.

Here is a link that might be useful: The people of Walmart video

Wow Lindawisconsin. Really hard not to slam you for your ignorance. Think I need to move to lighter hearted posts before this conversation distracts me from remembering why I take part in this forum in the first place.

And AMaji, I haven't been doing this long enough to give a very intellectual response, but - have seen enough posts indicating so many factors that affect fragrance - humidity, temperature, time of day, etc. I have noted with my own roses that some of my supposedly fragrant roses that were not fragrant in their first year, are turning out to be fragrant this year, in their second. Hoping yours become fragrant as time elapses.

HarmonyP,

Thank you for your reply. I am hoping that too, as I have heard about that from other people also.

You are a kind heart, so don't lose your temper over anyone's post. Most people who post here are good at heart, and they post what they believe is right. We all have our opinions, and it maybe very very different from others. I have a short fuse, and that gets me in trouble all the time, so I am trying to teach myself (and preach to others) the value of trying to understand others.

Have a great weekend everyone and enjoy your roses.

OK, maybe I was a little hard handed. I apologize for that.

Linda - thank you. We are all passionate about our roses, which speaks volumes.

Amaji - thank you as well! Also curious - which cultivars are the ones that are supposed to be fragrant and are not? Some which are just plain fragrant from inception would have me questioning. Many others wouldn't concern me at all.

All I know is that the 7 bag roses that I picked up, were put into the ground, watered, and so far are all growing perfectly fine. They grow fine, will(and have before) bloomed fine, and are haven't had any issues with them yet.........so why should I complain they are being sold by XXX bargain store?....or the fact they are $2?........because it "hurts" nurseries?...I can live with that.

For what it's worth, I just put in a 7 rose, $164 order to RU and will probably be sending in a $100+ order for 4 roses to DAR next week. I got 7 roses that are growing perfectly fine from Menards.....for $16.50....less than the price of 1 rose from most other places. Even the worst bag rose I bought is now leafing out and doing fine.

Thank you Harmony P! When I looked at that post the next day, it hadn't come out at all as I intended. I guess I really failed to make my point! I'll take more time to read things over next time.
Humbly,
Linda

Ok Linda - you can stop beating yourself up now ;) I like reading Jeffcat's post. It's a happy medium between both worlds - being able to enjoy the occasional bargain, and also supporting the true nurseries. As I was discussing this thread with my better half, I was reminded that it really has been the 50 cheapy roses from Lowes that got me into this fever/frenzy in the first place. Now I have about every possible rose that one can find in these places, and I have no other choice than to go outside into the quality nurseries to continue my obsession, which I am now prepared to do. There is balance in life...