Sherry, Very funny you should ask this. I was talking to a lady about roses and clematis this morning. When she said she had over 50 clematis and rose pairings, I asked if she had any smaller clematis climbing in large shrubs (because I've been wanting to try this, also). She said yes. They do very well. She told me some names but they went in one ear and out the other. Sorry.

I even asked if this was a bad idea for roses that were more prone to BS. She just said, "you need to spray."

I'm very interested in hearing from others on this forum but at this point, I'm going to try it. Thanks for posting.

Atlanta, perfect timing, right? I'll let you know later what I ordered.

Sherry

Clematis durandii might work. I'm growing one of these deep blue-violet big-flowered plants (which are non-twining) up through a 3 ft. high rugosa, and another sprawls through a low catmint (nepeta).

Carol

I did not have good results. Only because the rose shaded the clematis too much--the clematis was Not Happy. But my climate is very different--dry, no winter chill.

Sherry, I intertwined a rose and clem on a trellis but never tried growing one up a rose shrub. You won't know until you try. There are some that are more shade tolerant -

Who are you ordering from? Gean

I ordered from Brushwood Nursery. I found a site last year that gave a list of clematis for heat which follows:
* C. 'Alba Luxurians'*
* C. 'Arabella'*
* C. 'Baltyk'
* C. 'Betty Corning'*
* C. cirrhosa 'Freckles'
* C. 'Duchess of Albany' - Ordered for Mons Tillier
* C. 'Etoile Violette'
* C. 'Gipsy Queen'
* C. 'Henryi' - Ordered to put with Climbing SdlM
* C. 'Huldine'
* C. 'Jackmanii' - Ordered to put between Chromatella & Reve d'Or
* C. 'Kakio' (PINK CHAMPAGNE)*
* C. 'Lady Bird Johnson'
* C. 'Marie Boisselot
* C. montana var. grandiflora*
* C. 'Pangbourne Pink'
* C. 'Polish Spirit'*
* C. 'Praecox'*
* C. 'Princess Dianna'* - Ordered for Climbing Maman Cochet
* C. 'Romantika'
* C. terniflora* (can be invasive)
* C. x triternata 'Rubromarginata'*
* C. 'Viola'*
* C. 'Westerplatte'* - Ordered for Don Juan

I also got Blue Angel (to be on a wall shared with an espaliered Camellia 'Winter's Star' which blooms in Nov & Dec) and Venosa Violacea (to share an arbor on the other side of Duchesse d'Auerstadt). I think I shouldn't have a problem with texensis and viticella types. At least I hope not. The nursery was sold out of the shortest ones and the non-climbing ones that were suitable for my climate. I'm kind of excited, but I would be REALLY excited if I knew for sure they'll all be happy here. I'm wondering now if 'Henryi' with Sdlm and 'Westerplatte' with DJ won't blend too much, but I think since these are summer and fall bloomers there won't be much competitive blooming, especially with SdlM.

Sherry

Those are nice clems, Sherry. I know most of your choices and hope they do great for you. If you ever want a white, Huldine is beautiful. I had just planted Duchess of Albany; it sure seemed like a beauty; I hope it looks great with Mons Tillier.

Yeah Gean, I had Huldine on my list for a while along with a few others, but I had to reduce the list. I really wanted Ville de Lyon but they were sold out. Did you grow your clematis with roses or what?

I really didn't want another plant obsession, but it kinda feels like I've got one.

Sherry

Either with roses or behind roses on a fence or just up a trellis as a backdrop for David phlox. Most of mine were young, but I was impressed with how soon and how much Huldine bloomed, as well as Jackmanii. I never saw Duchess of Albany bloom, it was on a picket fence behind Mrs. BR Cant, but it was very young.

I tried growing a shade tolerant one, I can't remember its name, up the legs of a New Dawn climber which was on the north side. I never saw it bloom but it may have been too shady or maybe just too young. It was still alive when I left.

Henry F. Young bloomed a lot, spring and fall; it was on both sides of an arbor with Reve D'Or and Kaiserin F. I was just giving way to a clem obsession, but I plan to grow more of them. I really wanted a Betty Corning but hadn't bought one yet. That may be the first one I buy here.

My obsession was young, but I think they look wonderful with roses. I hope yours do great, Sherry. Hey, you needed somewhere else to spend your $$, right??

Before anyone asks "what is she thinking???" let me say I reversed Princess Diana & Duchesse of Albany. DA is WAY too big for Mons Tillier according to another website.

Sherry

I've got clems in other types of shrubs and trees and they do fine. Good spring bloom even in shade. Got them with roses too, but mostly climbers. I would think that the rose would need to be at least half grown before you added a clem- might strangle growth.

cweathersby, that's good to know. My Mons Tillier is 2 yrs old and 6x6, not mature, I'm sure, but hopefully more than half grown. :))

carol6ma, Clematis durandii is not on my heat list but I sure like the looks of it. I wonder if it can take living in Florida.

hoovb, we've definitely had our share of chill time this year, it needs to be done with but I'm afraid it's not. To get shade you need foliage so congratulations!

Gean, I really didn't like the ease with which I spent these $$$.

Sherry

I certainly like the look of clematis and roses. I'm trying about 100 different varieties of clematis with my roses. I think the only way I will know, for sure, whether it works is to try it. Of course I read up on the varieties and try to make educated choices. But each yard is so different depending on soil, microclimates, gardening practices, etc. For example, one needs only to look at how pathetic New Dawn is in my yard..in PRIME real estate...what a dog!

I even grow the Autumn Clematis (a thug of a clematis) with my Dr. Huey. I had a Dr. Huey on the property when I bought the place years ago (one of the original 3 roses), and I do like it in the spring. But, it loses all its leaves to blackspot...no problem, the Autumn Clematis covers it completely.

I began having success with clematis when I started to plant them deep...the crown 3-5 inches below the soil. Add plenty of organics, plenty of mulch, sun, water...just like a rose..go figure.

In time Duchesse of Albany can be quite big....but, big is good when you want it to cover a large area, right?

Robert

Sherry. I think you are right, when you say that you shouldn't have a problem with texensis and viticella types.
They seem to be no problem wherever they are grown. Can I recommend a book I have, that I would not be without? It is called Trouble Free Clematis, The Viticellas by John Howells. It is published by Garden Art Press.
I have growing in my hot Crete garden; Blue Angel, Abundance, Minuet, Perle d'Azur, Kerminsina, and Polish Spirit.
Some are in shade, and some in sun. Perle d'Azur is in full sun all day long.
I think your garden is going to be even lovelier, with the list you have shown.
Daisy

Robert, it's funny you mention New Dawn & micro climates practically in the same sentence. My local rose friend has two in her front yard - one is wonderful and one is a dog. And how convenient for Duchess of Albany that Cl Maman Cochet IS a large area! I did see in a couple of places about planting them deep. Thanks for confirming it.

Daisy, I saw that book last night and plan on getting it. I was admiring Perle d'Azur, Minuet & Abundance last night also, but since they weren't "on my list", I was unsure. Glad to hear they work in your hot garden - since I've already started my wish list for more. I wonder if humidity makes a difference to them. I noticed that texensis like it dry. I guess some Florida/Gulf Coast folks need to weigh in. How wonderful that they are trouble free and get blackspot!!!

Sherry

lovely choices sherry and a classic pairing. Betty Corning (fragrant) Huldine and all the texensis have been favourites of mine. For not so tall clems, look at alionushka. The montanas are VERY vigorous and so are the jackmanniis. Polish Spirit another very floriferous and vigorous if you can let it run amok. There are some really interesting clems such as the viornas and the oriental clems such as koreana and tangutica. By far the easiest are the viticellas - take a look at viticella purpurea plena elegans - subtle and some would say gloomy. If you like the very dainty flowers, little nell and minuet are worth looking at. Oh, what a lovely adventure you will have as so many clems can be squeezed in to enhance your roses.

Sherry, my 'LADY BIRD JOHNSON'clem is a monster....she easily takes over the whole fence in front of my sidewalk...I would definitely not recommend pairing her with a rose. She is gorgeous; blooms all summer, but is very robust and takes lots of work with tying her to the fence just to rein her in....she's pretty voluptous. And she's just one clem...

'BETTY CORNING' is huge also...mine is very old; about 15 years and she's so strong and bushy she looks like a shrub; very striking in the spring and early summer when in bloom. I grow her next to peony bushes and the effect is very pretty in the spring.

'MULTI-BLUE' is a rather tame clem that I have growing in 'ALOHA' climber that works quite nicely. Another well-behaved clem is 'JOSEPHINE'.

just to agree with robert, deep planting with clems is essential, especially if there is any likelihood of clematis wilt rearing (or rather, flopping) its head.

Hi Sherry- I didn't know Clematis grew here in Fla., I have not seen any around here and none in the Nurseries, if you do decide to get some let us know how they turn out, take some pics ... maybe in your climate they would do better than here in St Pete.. good luck, sally

Suzy & Terryjean, thanks for the suggestions and info. The interesting thing is that now I have more plants that I have to wait 3 years to see something happen. I'm hoping the viticellas and texensis will be a little quicker than that.

Sally, the list in my initial post came from a lady who gardens somewhere in the deep south. I've seen Jackmanii in Lowes but didn't know enough about them then to buy it. I've attached the link to the article. Scroll down on the left side to read it. There's a lot of information on this site.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: Article

Kathy, you are definitely most welcome here and thank you for your great post. We hot, humid rosarians love company! I have some shady areas that I would love to add some clematis to so your experience is very helpful. Rather than post all my questions here, I may email you this evening if you don't mind. I just think these plants will be a wonderful addition to my garden, and given our similar climates, it would seem that they should be successful here, too. Plus my soil is neutral which they like apparently. I wish I had started sooner with them, but my ignorance held me back. Everything in its time, I guess.

Thanks again, Kathy, your post was not too long. :)) I'm really getting excited.

Sherry

Kathy, I just looked this up. Houston and Ocala are both near the 29th parallel. I think that makes us gardening sisters!!

Sherry

Sherry, thanks for the warm welcome. I just ran into the other room to look at the world map hanging on the wall - my map only shows the parallels every 15 degrees, so it was the 30th parallel I saw. I've only lived in Houston for 6+ years, so I am still learning about gardening this far south. I would be very happy to receive an e-mail from you, but I would be more likely to respond in the morning than the evening.
Kathy

Hi, I buy from Brushwood Nursery too, and after having no luck with trying to grow clematis from the big box companies, last year I emailed Dan at Brushwood for advice. He recommended Dutchess of Albany and Princess Diana for this area (Dallas/Ft Worth). Diana didn't make it, but D of Albany did! So the other day I asked him for more ideas, he responded the next day that I try viticella hybrid for this area. For what it's worth, I have found that online vendors I have dealt with to be very knowledgeable and interested in what we buyers want.

Thanks, ogrose, that's very good to know. I hope my Princess Diana makes it though. Very sorry yours didn't.

Sherry

Thanks, Sherry, but I was thrilled that I finally got even ONE to grow! I will try a few of Dan's suggestions for this year, but will need to slow down as am planting 14 bands I got last year(you can tell I am a newbie, but ever so enthusiastic in this new hobby). When they take off, you can be sure I'll be a fan of clematis!