Go for it. If you know you're prone to pests, preventative spraying is is good way to cut down infestation issues, and since you are using the soap theres MUCH less environmental impact.

hi, i agree with terpguy. i spray mine every so often with neem oil but i have no routine - just when the mood hits me. i have had few problems but so far nothing major. the thing i find that is really helpful is spraying the medium and inside the pots - i wonder if that is where they start from. good luck.
sue

I agree with terpguy and Sue - I've also started preventive sprayings, every two or three weeks, but there are a few things to keep in mind.

Safers is oil based (if it's the same formula we have available to us here), as is Neem, and repetitive sprayings can leave a sticky film over the leaves. Every month or so, before spraying, I now give everything a nice shower with lukewarm water and a little dish soap (everything is in trays with holes, so I can do a couple dozen plants at a time). After they dry, IÂll thoroughly spray all surfaces and pour through the media (those !&*%ing mealybugs and Boisduval scale enjoy hiding near the top of the media, among the roots). All of this is course done in the bathroom which then requires a good washing. I also switch between a few pesticides, in case any bugs should become immune to one.

Since I started preventive sprayings last winter, I've had few problems in my own collection, especially since new plants are strictly quarantined in various areas around the house (there's a "sick room" and a "new plant" area).

Hope this helps.

Julie

What a timely post! I'm having painting done in my house and had to move all my plants (a lot) to the basement for a week. As I started moving my orchids I discovered scale on almost everything. This is so disturbing because I hit everything over the summer and especially before I brought them back in. I never win the war, but I thought everything was under control until yesterday.

I feel like bombing the entire house! I can't believe how much scale is back. I took the worst outside, in the pitch dark-30's, and soaked them in Bonide Oil. I ran out of spray (I really sprayed them big-time).

I realize now, it somehow got away from me. I didn't keep an eye on them the way I should. Now I have real trouble. What bothers me is I used systemic on many over the summer. They are full of scale again. I don't think the systemic did anything. My large Catts are the worse. Many are in bud and sheath and full of brown and wooly scale.

Maybe a weekly soap spray would help, although with scale you need the oil.

Jane

Thanks guys.

Julie - I'm using Safer Insecticidal Soap and according to the label it's 2% Potassium Salts of Fatty Acids and 98% other ingredients. What those other ingredients are is a mystery.

I was wondering about build-up though. During the summer outside, all the plants get washed by rain and watering every few days, but winter is another story. If need be, I could spray all the plants down with water every-so-often where they sit since they're in trays that can be easily drained. I really want to avoid hauling everything to the tub.

Jane

I feel for you although I've never had a huge outbreak of scale. With that said, I did find some on one plant and that got me thinking about the whole preventative thing. Whenever I find any creature, even just a few, I feel like my whole house is infested and I have to do the big nuke thing on everything. That's a lot of work and something I really want to avoid if possible.

I don't spray on a preventive basis. I haven't felt a need to, since only couple might show any sign of pests. My reasoning is that preventive spraying will breed resistant pests.

A systemic probably only protects for a limited time.

Several people have reported that regular watering with Dyna Grow ProTeKt makes the leaves tougher and less tasty to pests.

I don't know about the pests, but it definitely makes phal leaves tougher, more resistant to heat and other stresses. Even the tiny new leaves come in tough. Last summer outdoors, at the hottest time, many newer leaves were just soft and floppy. Not wilty, but just too soft. A couple just broke off for the heck of it, close to the crown. The ProTeKt took care of that problem.

Wouldn't help with the mealies that love flowers, of course.

For prevention, keep alert for sticky, shiny spatter on the leaves or flowers, a sure sign of pests nearby.

Mehitabel,

"My reasoning is that preventive spraying will breed resistant pests."

Believe it or not, soaps and oils don't have this problem. It IS an issue with chemical based pesticides that interact with body chemistry in one form or other (growth regulators, chitin destroyers, etc...merit and its ilk). S&O's simply suffocate the pests by clogging their spiracles (bug version of nostrils). They can't adapt to that without significant physiological changes, and that kind of adaptation is the kind that happens over millions of years, not after 6 months. This is why they're one of the best choices for pest control: pests don't adapt and they are environmentally friendly.

Thanks for the info, terpguy. Believe it or not? I believe it :) I knew soaps worked, never thought further about it.

I have not found scale on any Phals or Dens. They are on the catts and intergens. They don't seem to like Phals, although Phals are easier to see. I'm finding them in bifoliates down inside the leaf and along the sheaths. The thin leafed oncids have them too.

I'm choking with paint fumes (getting the house painted) and freezing with the windows open. All the plants are stuffed in a dark, dry basement and will stay there for a week. I feel like throwing them outside and letting them all freeze. They need to stay there for a week. By then it will probably be beyond repair.

I think I'll get a dog...

Jane

I don't spray on a preventive basis either. Scale and other "heavy" critters are very rare at my place, I only get Aphids and Tetranychus (whats the English for those?)
If I see evidence of one of those I give the plant, and the ones nearby, a shower of water, repeatedly for a week or so.

I water with a mix of Bayers Tree & Shrub Concentrate (a systemic) once or twice a year. Very simple, no smell and I really haven't had an issue with pests since I started the routine 2-3 years ago when I had a huge scale problem on several of my phals. I used to haul them to the garage and use Malithion(sp?) when pests were around, but haven't had the need for several years.

I also spray my few summering outside plants with Safers a couple of times over a 2 week period prior to bringing them indoors.

Bob

I started preventive sprays last year, after a bad infestation of heliothrips. Let me tell you, these guys are like thrips on steroids. They reproduce by laying eggs inside the leaves, which means you may think you've gotten rid of all of them, but you're a day away from a new generation. The heliothrips weakened the infected plants (almost exclusively Phals and mini Catts), after which I started seeing more freaking mealybugs than I ever had before. From what an entymologist told me, many of the largest greenhouses in Asia are having huge problems with heliothrips. Symptoms may not be immediately apparent, even after a reasonable quarantine period. By the time I started seeing damage, they had spread. I'm not taking any more changes, since I ended up having to throw out a good number of plants, including the first orchid I had ever bought. Sniff.

I haven't regretted starting this regime and as mentioned, I haven't had any major pest problems since.

Julie

Julie, could you describe your preventative regimen? Are you using poisons inside the house or do you grow in a greenhouse?

Please share,

Jane

Hi Jane,

See my first post above (mine was the fourth). I grow inside, in a spare bedroom and now in the basement (ran out of room upstairs). Plants are in a set of two plastic trays, a "mesh" tray that lets water escape set in a "solid" tray - I lift the first, empty the second, then put it back in. To treat, I take a tray or two at at time to the bathroom, set them in the bathtub and spray with an insecticidal soap (usually Safers' and sometimes Neem). This keeps the mess contained to an easily cleaned area. Once a month, I also wash away the gunky residue using the retractable shower head and some mild dish soap. I let everything dry in the bathroom before bringing back to the usual growing area under lights.

HTH

Julie

You might also alternate with Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Soap (from the healthfood store). Bugs not only hate soap, they hate peppermint even more, and Dr. Bronner's is strong. This is completely biodegradable and safe indoors for both pets and people and has the added bonus of keeping the leaves clean.

I use a systemic once a month - once every two months on everything I grow.
1/4 - 1/8 strength.
Had one case of spider mites since I started. [Mormodes, mite magnate]
I can't get next to sprays or neem.
MegA

ewewewewewew!! be careful of that Dr. Bronners. Thats one of those standard pesticides in my industry that you hear a lot about but nobody ACTUALLY uses. Clients have complained so often about the smell being so strong and headache inducing that I don't know a single horticulturist who would touch the stuff with a 10ft pole now.

Now, if you're a HUGE fan of peppermint smell and really dont think you'll mind it, and nobody else will be around to suffer, go for it! :)

I saw some cinnamon oil in Mrs. Greens and was tempted. Its expensive for a tiny bottle, but I thought of adding some to an oil/soap base. Won't go near neem but I've used canola and veg. oil, when in a pinch. Problem is spraying in the house. I have too many plants to cart to the bathroom. I hate mint and am not crazy about cinnamon either. I can't do anything major until the weekend. By that point, it might be better to just toss.

I only spray if insects are present and maybe 2 weeks prior to bringing them inside for the winter.

Terpguy, how much do you use!!? I use a tablespoon of Dr. Bronner's to a gallon of water and I don't get that strong a smell.

Orchid, I've never used it myself. I've had the option, my company has it in our arsenal of pesticides, but once I smelled the concentrate, that was it. Between that and hearing more horror stories than I care to recount from fellow interior landscapers, I've steered far away from that stuff. None of my colleagues use it anymore because of all the complaints.

I will preface this by saying my approach comes from my line of work, interior landscaping, where anything smelly is virtually unusable. If it smells, even of peppermint, someone is invariably going to complain. I've had people complain about the earthy smell of freshly potted plants, for crissakes! In the home, it IS a different story since you're the only one who has to suffer (provided you live alone) And if you like the smell of peppermint, go for it. But between my experience and the stories I've heard from others, its not for me, even in my own personal collection :)

Terpguy, I'm grinning about the Dr. Bronners. In the 70s, when all the back-to-the-landers first got going, anything "natural" was way in, and nothing was more way in than Dr. Bronners peppermint soap. We used it full strength for showers - poured on rough loofahs, of course. :) Washed dishes with it, cleaned floors and windows and cars - it was ubiquitous.

I feel more grounded w/ a small bottle in the cabinet at all times and have never minded the strong aroma - probably still influenced by the mindset of the time.

When the eucalyptus and almond Dr. Bronners came out - well, the stratosphere was a better place.

That said, a commercial grower offers this recipe for a homemade insecticidal soap:

For a gallon of water - 1/2 to 1 cup alcohol
1 tbsp cooking oil - Canola being preferred
1 tbsp Dawn dishwashing soap

One question - what are people's thoughts about 1600 X-clude? It's also recommended by one of the commercial growers.

The label says active ingredients are Pyrethrins; Piperonyl Butoxide, Technical (equivalent to 1.76% [butylcarbityl] [6-Propylpiperonyl] ether and 0.44% of related compounds); and N-Octyl Bicycloheptene Dicarboximide. All these are under 3%.

It's swell to use - in the garage (if it's gotten too cold outside), outside w/ no wind and in late afternoon (no direct sun), or in the greenhouse, put a lot of plants together, stand a couple of feet away, and spray with a few sweeps back and forth. Repeat in a week.

Supposedly, it's okay to use in the house, except for fish and birds, but I won't do it w/ our 3 cats and 2 dogs. The can has those warnings about if it's swallowed, if in the eyes, if on skin or clothing, and if inhaled. Nope.

The label says it kills just about everything that attacks indoor/outdoor plants and ornamental trees, including ants and gnats, plus kills cockroaches, spiders, flies, crickets, silverfish, fire-brats(???), and moths.

There are several pdfs available online that give complete label info, but I don't know how to link to them here.

This last summer, my plants stayed inside. The 2 summers before, they got sprayed w/ the 1600 X-clude twice before coming in, plus a couple of times during the summer.

This year is the first time I've had problems w/ pests. Dunno if it's cause and effect. Spider mites got going before I even knew it - barely beyond newbie grower. Since then, I've used lots of Safers or equivalent and have wiped a lot of leaves w/ alcohol.

Another factor may be that I used to wash leaves w/ my fingers under running water whenever plants were flushed, and I've cut way back on that for several reasons - too many orchids being one.

Bottom line is so far, I've been reactive, rather than pro-active.

Good topic, Kevin, esp. because orchids have to be inside in the Northland.

Whitecat8

Here is a link that might be useful: 1600 X-clude

But, Kevin, to answer your question :) would you want to spray 3 days after the 1st spraying to catch those bugs that hatch out after 3 days? Seems a lot of them do, if my memory is right.

Then maybe start another 2-spray round x number of days later?

What do you think?

WC8

WC - You know, when I first started out I was hauling the plants to the kitchen sink every week for their weekly spray down. Had very few pests back then. Like you, there's no way I can do that anymore.

I like that recipe for the spray. I was wondering if there were any out there using cooking oils. Thanks.

Do critters hatch out that fast? For some reason, I was thinking the schedule was more like a week. I certainly can spray more often if need be especially if I can do it in place instead of hauling everything to the tub.

I don't think anyone addressed my concern about Safers build-up on the leaves. Is that something I need to address every so often?

K

Before I started washing leaves, I found that Safers and others did leave a bit of a sticky residue that got worse as time goes on. Not good especially for show plants. I don't know if it would harm the plant, but I've been erring on the safer side and trying to wash down my plants once a month. It's not that the residue is bad after that time, it's just that it's much harder to clean them off if you go any longer. This way, I pretty much just splash soapy water on them, let it sit while I do other things and then rinse off before respraying.

Julie