Meldy should be able to help you. She may not see this until Monday morning. Don't recall her posting on the weekend.

During grade school and high school I was very distracted and a poor student. I had a lot of interests but had trouble focusing and was bored with classes. I could ace out tests and scored high on the Iowa Basic skills tests but did not apply my self to daily work resulting in low grades. Sound familiar? This was in the '50s and '60s so they did not have a name for it.

In college I had an adviser that was a psychologist at Cal Poly Pomona. Being an engineering college there were many new toys to play with. Some students came up with a prototype biofeedback machine that measured eeg, heart beat, electrical resistance of the dermis (sweat) and breath rate.

Dr. Winterbourne would hook up any one willing and lead us through a guided relaxation process then let us come in and use the machines when ever we wanted. I liked playing with the machines a lot so took full advantage of this opportunity. There were lights, sounds and gauges to watch and listen to that we could control with our thoughts, kind of like the Twilite Zone or Outer Limits, good old Sci-Fi.

Here is a link that shows how this can help people 30 years later with many different things. Getting in touch with your thoughts is half the battle of being a functioning human. Oh yes, I surprised myself with strait A's and was on the dean's list through college.

Here is a link that might be useful: EEG Biofeedback Therapy

Thanks for the link Don-
I started reading on that website last night and there was so much info, I had to call it a night. Today is a perfect day to sit and read, cold and rainy.

Oh my yes, biofeedback. That was really mainstream a couple decades ago. I really believe it has a lot of merit and is not used to its advantage. I know it works for migraines. If I can catch one quickly enough, and I have auras and usually can......I use it.

I have some very ambivalent feelings about the ADD and ADHD problem. I don't doubt there is something there. I don't know at what point the official label should be applied, although I know there are criteria for it. I have mixed feelings about just where in the spectrum of symptoms it is actually justified, IOW. I am ambivalent about when It's appropriate to start medications. I'm curious as to the studies concerning how it can/does advance into adulthood. I'm also not convinced the problem has been there all along, and that we are just now more proficient diagnosing it. I think it's more widespread now than even a decade ago and is continuing to become more commonplace. I KNOW that it can be severe enough to cause heartaches, and I suspect that parental teaching in how to modify not only the environment, but their actions and consequences of action of their children can be involved.

There are so many things feeding into it. But, I also suspect that we need to be very, very careful to explore all the other possibilities of what could be causing maladjustments, that we don't slip a kid into one of those slots too easily.

I do know I am seeing a real and pronounced shift in children's actions from decade to decade, and it can't all be explained away by parenting. I honestly wonder sometimes, if a lot of it isn't caused by the general 'overload' conditions of life anymore. Too much, too quick, on very malleable nervous systems.

Can't give you one answer Krista........Hope you can find a way to deal with this.

The teacher made the comment that she was surprised it wasn't noticed sooner. Well, I did have him screened at 3 1/2 for autism because he wasn't speaking. He would wake up in the morning and instead of saying "good morning mom", he would spell words. He isn't a behavior problem, but his sometime stutter (worst when he is excited),repetitive echolalia, and pretending in class are being noticed by the other kids now. His imaginative play only started a couple of years ago, two years behind, I believe. He is quirky and as I look back on my childhood, I wonder if I wasn't the same and just didn't realize it. I figured everyone else was not with it. LOL He listens, he is kind, funny, pleasant, sweet,affectionate, the teacher felt horrible giving him the grades he earned. He can't concentrate and has comprehension issues, as if he is in his own little world sometimes.

You say you "had him screened" for autism....by whom? In what setting?
The behavior you describe is on the autism spectrum. I would definitly say he needs more than "screening" to rule out anything like ausbergers or autism....and then try the meds.
What you are describing the not speaking but spelling words and the echolalia is not consistant with ADHD.
While far from an expert on autism I do know more than I wish I did. I have an autistic grandson whow as diagnosed at about 3 1/2 because he wasn't talking and my daughter wouldn't accept the diagnosis from a "screening" procedure but insisted on taking him to a teaching med school for a 3 day evaluation.
And I don't know why you are resistant to medication if that's what he needs. If he were diabetic, you certianly would give him the meds he needs.
But find out for sure....some school psychologist cannot give you a definitive diagnosis.
But for sure needs help of some sort.
Linda c

Linda- The autism specialists were set up at the school for screening, I had him placed in the pre-primary impaired classes for two years before he went to Kindergarten. I held him back one year, so technically, he should be in the fourth grade. The specialist said that he displayed autistic behavior but if he was autistic or had asperger's, he was very high functioning. The ADHD symptoms have just now been noticed. He has progressed a lot socially (not so shy anymore) and talks my ears off many days. I was talking to a mom at DS's pragmatics class who medicates her son (he is ten and begged for medication)and it sounded like he was a guinea pig until they found something that worked for him. There were awful side effects, mood swings, wouldn't eat while medicated etc. I would hate to see DS's personality change from happy,giddy,and loving to a stoic little man who says (imagine deep serious voice) " I have finished my homework mother..)
I will find some help, and it helps to hear what others have experienced.

I think what Linda says has a lot of merit. In autism (and more than a few other conditons) children can be somewhere on a spectrum, and be very functional in some respects, and not in others. I have a youngster in my extended family, whom I have noticed since infancy did not fall into expected social or communication norms. Quirky is an excellent way to describe this now teen. There is absolutely no deficit in intelligence. In some areas, perhaps gifted.

But in social skills, verbal communications is on a level of a child half its age. Written skills, however, are very sophisticated. The attention span of a mosquito. I think where its taking its toll is on joining in with peers in age appropriate activities. Off in its own world ninety percent of the time. And needs to be directed to complete anything. Functional? Yes, but not living up to potential.

I don't think I would feel comfortable letting a school system 'diagnose' a child whom a parent feels is out of synch. I guess that would depend on the resources of a school system. But I wouldn't in mine. I would be asking my peds physician for a referral to somebody who is very skilled in diagnostics. That's what I meant by saying, faced with this situation, I'd want to explore all the possibilities.

Krista, I know where you're coming from. I've sorta been there. My boys don't have quite as many difficulties as your DS, but inability to concentrate or sit still for more than about 30 seconds at once were certainly present. In my case I saw a pediatric neurologist for a diagnosis and treatment options. I felt much more secure that I would get a true and reasoned diagnosis from someone who specialized in the disorders of the brain, rather than a 15-minute "okay, here's your kid's ritalin prescription" office visit from an overbooked pediatrician.

I loathed the idea of medicating my boys, but as a kind and wise teacher pointed out, it was possible that I was doing them no favors by withholding what might benefit them just because I didn't like the idea. And it turned out that she was right. My older son went from being able to hold his own in school without paying attention because he was so bright to becoming the first ADHD pupil in the district to enter the gifted program after he started taking medicine to help him concentrate.

Yes, it took a little while to find the right medicine for them. But, like antibiotics and antidepressants, no one particular ADHD medication is a cure-all.

Please feel free to email me if you'd like to talk more about this. I'll even send you my phone number for more in-depth chat if you'd like, since I tire of typing long before I run out of things I could tell you.

Krista, the best words I've seen here came from Linda and Kim.

Should it turn out that your son can be helped with meds they may not get it right the first time, or even the second. It's not one size fits all and so frustration is often felt.

Do keep us posted. I care what happens to you and your boy - with the right kind of help there will be a happy path for you both to wallk.

First off, I have to agree with Linda. It's very possibly in the autism range; or it sounds like it.

However, I'll tell you what they told me. Take the medication. If it helps, you're better off. If it doesn't then stop taking them. I know better than anyone my son is not attention deficit, in any shape or form. But he takes the meds because they help. Not because some teacher thinks he should or society thinks he's ADHD. He has the highest energy level of any person I've ever known. Ever. Bar-none. And he knows how I think it's a good thing, but has a long way to learn to direct in a positive way. He can and will. Until he does, meds are there. When he does control his hands and feet better, the meds disappear. He doesn't take them on weekends and he doesn't take them when school is out. He goes to camps where gets to direct that energy where he runs and jumps and climbs. No meds necessary. I can keep him grounded and under my wing when I am there. But I can't be there 100% of the time. And neither can you. Let him take them without guilt. If it helps, isn't that enough?

Please get him screened by a group of medical professionals who know ADHD, autism, and any other deficiency with which they can help. Schools are out to get the group through the system, not necessarily everyone. So you have to look out for his specific needs. Trust that they know something is going on, but not necessarily what it is.

I have no knowledge or experience to offer you, but my prayers and caring thoughts are coming your way.

Krista I'm sorry you are having to go through this with V. The only advice I can give would simply be based on what I've read as I've never experienced this as a teacher or with any family members,and you obviously are reading everything you can find . I'm sure at some point you will put him in the hands of someone who is very experienced with this and help you separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to autism and ADHD. Good luck to you both,and I know eventually you will sort this all out find the path you want to take.

Krista, I went through a lot of what you're describing with my DS. I remember coming here and asking the same questions. Every teacher from 1st grade on said he was ADHD and sent him to the school psychologist who said the same thing. I absolutely REFUSED to believe it. I had him tested for dyslexia and various learning disabilities, but had a hard time believing he was ADHD. Finally, when he was in 3rd grade, I took him in to his pediatrician for a check up and mentioned it to him. Did I ever mention how much I adore this pediatrician? He called the school and told them that when they put MD behind their names, then they can diagnose children. The school backed off for a while but then, it started again when he was in 5th grade. Again, I told the pediatrician and he made an appointment with a very good psychologist to have him tested. The results showed he was ADHD. Still, I was reluctant to put him on medication. The first thing the psychologist did was to work with him to show him different ways to organize himself, his school work, his homework, etc. Let me tell you, that wasn't easy since I am the most disorganized person on this earth! We both attended these sessions because if I couldn't organize myself, he wouldn't be organized either. After that, she worked with him on different methods of learning. Schools have set programs they use that work for the majority of the students. ADHD kids aren't part of that majority, they need to be taught differently. Then we started in on ways to stop the "wiggles" and stay focused. That one was hard, very hard. Everything we tried would work for a couple weeks and then he'd be back to square one. Finally, I gave in and we tried medication. I am so thankful I had a good team of docs working with him because I was a wreck when he started taking meds. It's not only the type of meds he takes, but also the dosage you have to watch. Luckily, we only had to try 2 different meds before we found one that worked. The only side effect we had to deal with was loss of appetite. DS was on meds for about a year and a half and there was a remarkable improvement in school work. So much so that one day he told his doc that he was tired of taking them and wanted to try school without them. The doc told him to go ahead but if his grades started to drop, we'd have to relook taking them again. Well, he worked hard, his grades slipped a little, but he used the tactics he was taught and stayed pretty much on course. It's been 3 years now and, while he still has moments of zero concentration and is plagued with cases of the "wiggles", he's doing well. He was given the tools he needed to learn to adapt to his ADHD and that makes a world of difference.
When I think about all the frustration and tears both DS and I went through, I could kick myself for not having him tested sooner. Have him tested by a professional who deals with ADHD. Medication is only one way of treating ADHD, there are also alternatives that may, or may not help. But you won't know until you try.
And remember, you are NOT alone! Hang in there, it does get better! Well, then again, just wait until he discovers girls and cars and you'll wish it was just ADHD you had to worry about! LOL!

Maryanne

All I can add to the wonderful info given here is to make sure that he has a complete physical with blood work to see if anything is amiss there- thyroid, anemia, allergies,or borderline diabetes. And perhaps have DS checked for a possible sleep disorder; remember there are more than apnea.

Good luck. You are on the right track!

Jan

I think it impossible to sufficiently emphasize that not only is each child different (whether or not considered to be ADHD or autistic) but also each diagnostician differs! And so does each teacher and each school system and each state's educational expectations differ. I see the differences not only because my job involves special education eligibility (Federal, state, and county compliance), and not only because I am familiar with diagnosticians within both school and medical systems, but because my DD was among the first to be officially medically diagnosed as being ADHD.

While I would give all due respect to those physicians who feel only medical doctorates are qualified to make a diagnosis, I would be far more impressed with their personal qualifications and experience on the subject, if they have any. In the past twenty years in this job, I have seen literally thousands of MD-signed "diagnoses" which were overwhelmingly obvious in their lack of supportive in-depth knowledge of both patient and disability. I have also seen some truly impressive evaluations which -doctoral opinions to the contrary- were as likely to be written by a clinical psychologist or pediatrical behavioral specialist as by a formal pediatrician or other medical doctor.

The problem, of course, is that there is no single cause of the physical/emotional/behavioral spectra which is commonly termed ADD, ADHD, or autism. In each category, the legal definitions themselves are changing, and criteria which is acknowledged by one medical group or state or educational system may not be accepted by another. If one has a pustulent rash, swabs and microscopes and medical histories can determine whether the rash was caused by poison ivy or chicken pox or something else. When one has difficulty learning to focus and/or to behave with social appropriateness and/or to simply sit still -or any of the other several dozen criteria for ADD, ADHD,or autism, one learns that there is no one single defining cause nor is there any one single defining "cure" or amelioration. This fuzziness of both cause and cure can be beyond frustration for parents, teachers, and medical staff involved.

Like others, I could talk for hours and days about my personal experiences with DD's ADHD which might or might not be of any help to you. Instead, I'd rather encourage you to do several things, each within your control.

First: keep detailed diaries: record meals, drinks, activities and the child's ongoing behavior. NO one can make a diagnosis without supportive information, most especially when general behaviors are concerned. There is more to a child's behavior than is shown while s/he is at the doctor's office.

Second (and this is more difficult than diary-type notes), eliminate sugar and foods containing sugar-replacement additives from the diet. The restriction includes sucrose, fructose, aspartame, saccarin, etc. To do this is a PIA, which involves much reading of labels and consistency in refusing to give in to demands and whines. I've been there and done that, and when it comes to compliance: adults are a bigger problem than the kid. (This restriction may or may not affect the behavior, but I guarantee the body will be healthier.)

Third: do not accept any single person's diagnosis as being sufficient unto itself. I do recommend having at least one pediatrician [if at all possible one who has studied and reported on ADD/autism] AND a non-affiliated behavioral specialist and/or clinical psychologist make a diagnosis. And if the diagnosis is presented after one visit and consists of saying that little junior is obviously ADD and needs medication, go find another person to make an informed evaluation. The average evaluation takes many hours of one-on-one study by the diagnostician with the patient, and ends up summarized in a 15- to 30-page report. Anything written on just one page is probably an unsupported opinion which may have little to do with your child.

Fourth, remember that there is a very large segment of the medical community which believes that no non-medically trained person needs the details or basis of any medical diagnosis. Period. They will be offended and/or appalled that any one else would question their diagnosis or evaluation. IMO, run-don't-walk out that door. There are too many intelligent, informed, and informative medical personnel around to limit yourself to someone who believes you are incapable of understanding basic English. OTOH, you need to show your comprehension of the issues involved. Keep a notebook going with a summary of what you have read [who wrote it/when, by whom, where published]. Be very cautious of medical personnel who discount or shrug off reports from the child's teacher/s -- that is similar to saying that what one person observes over a several hours every day, every week is of no importance. IMO, what a teacher sees over six hours daily has as much importance as what the parent sees over six hours daily --- and in both cases the views may or may not be of value in a diagnosis but neither should they be summarily dismissed. The odds are that either teacher or parent is far more familiar with the child than the doctor is!

And last, remember to love the child no matter how exasperating the actions.