If there is an alternative to scrapping the whole thing and starting over, I'd be interested. Bunch of people around me have very full lawns that are meticulously mowed, trimmed and edged. And by full I mean full of weeds. Weeds that look like grass, weeds that look like salad greens, weeds that look like flowers. But it's all at the same height with perfect 90 degree edges. That's an option. Looks like the lawn was really not maintained for a long time. For every weed you see there could be hundreds of weed seeds just waiting for the right conditions so I think you'd be better off laying sod.

Hey thanks for the pics growforit (nice name) and hanzrobo. Those gardens are BEAUTIFUL and lush. More pics of "devils strips" or small area planters would help a lot So here's an update on the soil. It is rock hard. It feels like drilling through STONE. I can only dig about 4 inches deep with a shovel. I tried 2 different sturdy shovels as well as a hoe and none are cutting it. I dug a hole about 4 inches in one area which took about 6 minutes to dig. I then filled it with water and it took: 4 min for 1st inch 8 min for 2nd inch 17 min for inch apx 23 min for 4th inch to drain Would that be considered good draining? Also the soil below the top 1 inch is SO hard and dark so I feel that it is clay. But I did the jar/water method mentioned above with the top layer of soil, which contained a lot of organic grassy material (I plan on re-doing this test tomorrow because the first one I think was taken from too high a soil layer) My results approximately: 45% sand (but when I drained this the sand was gooey and clumped together more like clay. But this 45% settled to the bottom ) 35% loam (this settled within about 5-10 min) 10% clay ?(this was the layer that settled 24 hrs later) 10% other (this was just water but there was a ton of organic material floating on the top) So like I said above, the "sand" that settled in first few minutes after I shook the jar of dirt in water was gooey when I took it out of the mixture. It didn't feel gritty like real sand, so I wonder if this test is accurate. I have a feeling the soil is more clay then the test showed, but maybe it's because I just took it off the top 1-2 inches of soil and not whats underneath. I read somewhere that something called "gypsum"? is good for clay soil, is this true? Supposedly it has calcium which I believe is good for succulents? Anyways I've been spraying the grass with RoundUp and will also remove as much of the grass as I can without breaking my shovel. I'm 6 ft and 170 lbs and digging into this "devils strip" is like digging into limestone. Also, nil, I'm going to do as you say and just do the whole thing at once (treating grass etc) then put the top amendments and then once the gravel is on top I will plant a little at a time. I'm thinking I'm going to have to build up the soil with gravel/pumice/gritty sand to really get good drainage. I was also wondering if coffee grinds would be good?? I'm trying to be thrifty about this and have unlimmited coffee grinds from starbucks This post was edited by yorkiemiki on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 13:53

Andrew ... If I till up the grass and shovel out the sod, is regrowth of the grass going to be a big issue since I'd be tearing out the roots anyways? It depends on the kind of grass. Those that spread by underground rhizomes (Bermuda and a few others) are likely to regrow from chunks of rhizomes. And if you don't patrol the area and remove all the survivors for a couple of growing seasons, they will re-establish. The rhizomes are the drought and overgrazing survival strategy - despite the name, Bermuda grass is an African savannah grass and has to deal with 6 months of no rain and being grazed by bazillions of migrating wildebeests and gnus. Making the switch to Buffalo Grass, we used a sod-cutter to remove the lawn, then tilled in compost and fertilizers and raked out grass roots and rhizomes before plugging the buffalo grass in ... and still had regrowth. We should have spent a lot more time - perhaps all summer - on getting the Bermuda killed off. I confess my errors here: http://lazygardens.blogspot.com/2009/08/watching-grass-grow-week-20-confessing.html Solarizing deeply enough to kill Bermuda's rhizomes will damage the surface roots of any trees and shrubs in that area, possible stunting or killing the greenery. The rhizomes are usually in the top 6 inches of soil, as are the tree and shrub's feeder roots. I had a client who refused to use "chemicals" like I advised and solarized around her bushes instead ... she killed quite a few by cooking the roots. My approach - leaving the dead grass to decompose under the new planting - creates open channels where the decomposed roots used to be. Lazy aerating. :) I think of it as a cover crop. zensojourner - Where do you live that Bermuda grass is so easy to kill? I use a lot of glyphosate because I clear out weed-infested landscapes and Bermuda lawns for a living/hobby, converting them to xeriscapes and lower maintenance landscapes. In the dusty desert SW, wind-blown weed seeds are ubiquitous and omnipresent and we have three weed-sprouting seasons (spring, monsoon and early winter) to deal with. Some of the seeds can persist in the soil for 10+ years and then sprout. Roundup and all its kin are contact herbicides. You are incorrect. Glyphosate is a systemic herbicide, not a contact herbicide. It translocates to the roots and kills the plant from the roots up. The problem with Bermuda is that it has such a huge underground component it's hard to get it all in the first application. You can improve the kill by having several inches of lush growth to spray, but in most of its range it takes two or more applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate Brand name really does not matter, glyphosate is glyphosate is glyphosate. You have been misinformed. The current brand-name "Roundup" added a knock-down contact herbicide to the formula (read the label) because homeowners are impatient to see weeds shrivel ... it's not necessary. So I use the generic single herbicide. =========== And about that Rodale study: "Researchers tested four combinations of Roundup on cultured human cells" and blah,blah,blah .... Cell cultures are fragile. You can kill or damage them by adding almost anything that disrupts their unprotected cell membranes. Try adding 20% acetic acid, the commonly used "organic" herbicide and see how fast they die. Even baking soda can kill them or damage them. Here is a link that might be useful: Bermuda images

It's up to you. Looks like the person across the road has a really nice lawn. I would use RoundUp to kill everything mid-Aug, put in your garden bed and seed the remaining area with tall fescue mid-September. It's a small lawn, all you need is a mower to scalp, a rake to clean up the clippings and thatch, put down the seed, and water. Pre-emergent is going to be a must next year, all that crabgrass will produce millions of seeds, it will invade your garden bed and lawn again and possibly even worse.