I'm not sure the real answer has been written yet. We really need to know: Where you live (at least the city especially if you live in SoCal). Do you have any watering restrictions? Do you have any shade on the lawn? Are you willing to mow 2x per week? As TW has said, if you want to kill the bermuda, wait until summer (June depending on where you live). If you want to keep the bermuda and level the lawn, also wait until June. If you want to mix bermuda with St Aug, that can be done, too. You do not have to have a monoculture. One minor problem with that is that they each thrive under different conditions. If you mow high and water once a month in the cool weather and once a week in the heat, the St Augustine will tend to overrun, but not eliminate, the bermuda. If you mow low and don't water, then the bermuda will overrun the St Augustine. If you have any shade, the bermuda will die out and St Augustine will move in.

>How big of an area are you talking about?Rather small, actually. It's a small strip alongside the driveway, measuring something like 5' x 10'. >I'm going to go back to TW's first post and suggest that your friend should learn to love Bermuda.I suppose he could learn to love dandelions, oxalis and crabgrass as well, but that's really not an ideal suggestion for my fescue lawn or garden beds growing alongside it. I can't understand anyone who *chooses* to grow Bermuda grass. It's invasive to every other part of your landscape, ugly (compared to fescue anyway) and turns a lovely shade of brownish gray in the winter. :( Solarization sounds like the most effective choice, but lord, having a dead lawn next door for the next year hardly has me dancing for joy. But I appreciate the suggestions.

Well, I'm gonna recommend you try the method that hasn't worked for Connie! LOL! I have that problem with KBG too, and it's hard for me to imagine that it isn't a problem, to some extent, with everybody! When I bought this house, the lawn was edged with commercial grade, steel edging, with the "non-grass" areas covered with landscape fabric, which was covered with ROCK--both of which I hate! The front yard, which I mostly ignore, still has the fabric and rock, and definitely has a problem with the grass spreading past the edging--mostly because I ignore it and rarely sit down to try to clean it up! (So much for edging and landscape fabric and mulch keeping out grass--and weeds!) In the backyard, where I garden, and LIVE, it's in much better shape! With railroad ties on the sunny side, there's no problem, obviously, and on the other side with the steel edging, as soon as I see a "sprig" of grass show up on the wrong side of the edging, I take the time to dig/pull it. You MUST get all of the root or it just keeps on going and going and going! So the steel edging in the backyard has worked fairly well for me. BUT--since I moved in, the grass has been slowly "disappearing" on the other two sides of the yard, where I now have perennials and veggies! The first couple years that was a big problem, but I didn't really want any more steel edging! Sometime really early on, after I found GW, before I found RMG I think, I read about somebody using the "ditch" method of edging. Wasn't even sure what they meant, but remembered it anyway, and decided to try it---without even being sure I knew what I was supposed to do! I went down the one side of the yard, cutting thru the sod like I'd do if I were digging more sod out (which, in fact, I was also doing along with my "ditching" project--increasing the width of the perennial space!). I used the long, narrow type of spade (rather than a regular shovel) because it has much less of a "curve" than a regular shovel, so I got a straighter line. I didn't use one of those little curved edging shovel thingies---'cause I didn't have one, AND I wanted to dig much deeper than they do anyway! I was digging down in close to a foot, then "wiggling" the shovel forward and backward to "loosen up" the soil, then pulling the shovel back out and sticking it back in overlapping with the previous place. I did that for 7 or 8' at a time, and then I'd sit down with my Little Digger (trowel) and dig/pull out a little chunk of sod, knock any good soil off of it, and throw the rest in a big pot to go on the compost pile or in the trash--depending on how bad the clay was! I wasn't digging out anywhere near a foot down (maybe 5-6"), but by loosening it up that far down, it was much easier to get the "top" out. When digging it out, I made sure--as much as I could--that I got all the rhizomes out that were going the wrong way--past where my new "ditch" was gonna be! I had watered--as in really saturated--the whole area a day or two before, so I wasn't working in mud, but it was very moist where I was working. If the soil is too dry, you can't even hope to pull the rhizomes out! If it's moist enough, you can "follow" the rhizome to the end, sometimes loosening the soil with the tip of your scissors or something, to be sure it doesn't break off! Did I mention that this is a lot of work? Did I mention that I really enjoy sitting out in the yard on a nice day or evening, "doing things!" And did I mention that I really, really, really, enjoy going back out there after I've finished something to gaze upon my accomplishment!!! After pulling out the sod, shaking off some of the soil, and removing the "bad" rhizomes, I left a "ditch" roughly 4" deep from the level of the sod. Then I sloped it gently back up from the bottom of the ditch to the "garden bed" part, and put a THIN layer of bark mulch down the slope to the bottom of the ditch! This leaves the "edge" of the ditch exposed so it dries out, making it much harder for the grass rhizomes to keep spreading! (I think you may have had more of a problem, Connie, because you kept the whole ditch filled with mulch, keeping the "cliff edge" of the soil wet enough for the rhizomes to keep spreading, either right thru the mulch, or more deeply in the soil.) The first year will be a bear!!! Right after you do it, you'll find the totally weirded out rhizomes trying to go every which way! You just really messed with Their World! Probably after only a month or so, you'll need to go all along the edge and pull off the rhizomes that are desperately looking for some way to grow--up, out, or down far enough to reach the soil again! Water well the day before, and it's not that much of a problem--and another nice sit in the yard! When you pull them out at this point, it's probably gonna look like your pulling out "chunks" of the grass that you still want, but, take my word for it, that'll fill back in FAST! You'll also have a problem with the rhizomes that were growing deeper than the bottom of your ditch--left over from when they could grow that deeply because they were "protected" by the soil that used to be on top of them! Again, you need to have wet/moist soil, and you just follow them "back," from the point where you see a blade of grass coming up, to the grass on the lawn side of the ditch. After the first year, the "deep" rhizome problem will get less and less. I still have a couple places where I have a problem, but that's mostly places where my ditch isn't deep enough, and next time I go around and "re-edge" it, I'm gonna make it a little deeper everywhere than it is now, now that I know it's working for me! For maintenance, I try to go down each side of the yard about once a year, to "re-edge" it, and to kinda put the ditch back in, since it tends to "fill up" little by little when I'm working out there, and with watering! During the summer, I do with the "ditched" parts what I do with the steel edging--if I see blades of grass coming up in the beds, the next time it's watered well, I take a few minutes to carefully dig in (tip of scissors again--one of my primary garden tools!) and remove the rhizomes. I admit, I really wasn't expecting it to work in the beginning--and that initial blast of rhizomes coming up seemingly everywhere, had me doubting even more, but I kept it up and it's gotten easier and easier, and I like the look of it much more than any of the edgings I'm familiar with! I recommend a minimum of 4" deep for the ditch (and I think I'm gonna start to go for about 5") and then cover it with just enough mulch to conserve moisture and to get the appearance you want, making sure the edge of the "cliff" can dry to discourage the rhizomes from going that direction! One problem I do have is that when I cut the grass I need to be careful or I "vacuum up" all of the bark mulch in the ditch! There is NO way to get established rhizomes out of things like sedum or iceplant, or iris, or daylilies, without digging and replanting the plants! And when you do that, you need to be sure you get even the tiniest rhizomes out of the soil before replanting them! With sedum, it may be easiest to just take cuttings and start new plants and then dig and dispose of the old ones. With things like iris, you can pretty easily dig and "wash" the soil off of the roots before replanting, but not till after they're done blooming this year or you'll really mess with them! I've never tried a grass killer that doesn't kill broadleaf plants, but if anyone has, I'd love do know how successful it was--just for future reference since I don't really have anywhere that I need it now. In the front yard I've gone around a couple times in the past with Roundup and sprayed the grass coming up in the fabric/rocks, and I didn't worry a lot if I got a little bit of the "good" grass! It comes back!!! I do have a patch of "weed grass" in my front lawn, but I've never even figured out what it is! I've been quite unsuccessful at getting rid of it, but so far the best "treatment" I've found for that is to keep the lawn well watered, which seems to encourage the KBG and "squeeze out" the weed stuff. Problem is that I use my best "drought watering techniques!" I water infrequently and very deeply, so the surface dries considerably in between, which seems to make the weed stuff happy. Last year I tried to keep that one spot watered more often, and I think it was starting to help. Gonna to go with that plan again this year! Any chances you'll be coming to the swap this year, Holly? You could see my "ditches" if you did! Let me know if you have any ditch questions, Skybird P.S. Connie, I just noticed you said that you have/had your ditch next to edging. I don't have any edging at all where I have the ditches!

Noobs generally are off by several months in timing their lawn projects. Most are off by 6 months, so you're way ahead of the game. You're just off by 2 months. There is a thing called frost seeding where you put the seed down after there is absolutely no chance of any of it germinating this season. Usually that is December of January. That seed will germinate early in the spring and give you a half a shot at having a lawn last longer than July. Most spring seeded lawns die out from the summer heat leaving behind crabgrass...and the weeds you already have. That's why darktower suggested waiting until August. You might be able to kill off your weeds with a spray using Weed-B-Gone Chickweed, Clover, and Oxalis killer. It's a stronger formula than the traditional WBG. If you have grass still in there the WBGCCO should leave it alone. Since you're a noob, here's the 1-2-3 of lawn care as I have put it together after many years reading many forums. Basics of Lawn Care After reading numerous books and magazines on lawn care, caring for lawns at seven houses in my life, and reading numerous forums where real people write in to discuss their successes and failures, I have decided to side with the real people and dispense with the book and magazine authors. I don't know what star their planet rotates around but it's not mine. With that in mind, here is the collected wisdom of the Internet savvy homeowners and lawn care professionals summarized in a few words. If you follow the advice here you will have conquered at least 50% of all lawn problems. Once you have these three elements mastered, then you can worry about weeds (if you have any), dog spots, and striping your lawn. But if you are not doing these three things, they will be the first three things suggested for you to correct. 1. Watering Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an inch in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. Do not spread this out and water for 10 minutes every day. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. If that does not work, then you might have to water more than once per week during the summer's hottest period. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds. You will have to learn to judge when to water your own lawn. If you live in El Paso your watering will be different than if you live in Vermont. Adjust your watering to your type of grass, temperature, humidity, wind, and soil type. It is worth noting that this technique is used successfully by professionals in Phoenix, so...just sayin.' The other factors make a difference. If you normally water 1 inch per week and you get 1/2 inch of rain, then adjust and water only 1/2 inch that week. 2. Mowing Every week mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. However, bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses will become the most dense when they are mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. In fact there are special mowers that can mow these grasses down to 1/16 inch. Dense grass shades out weeds, keeps the soil cooler, and uses less water than thin grass. Tall grass can feed the deep roots you developed in #1 above. Tall grass does not grow faster than short grass nor does it look shaggy sooner. Once all your grass is at the same height, tall grass just looks plush. 3. Fertilizing Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 5 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above. Follow the directions on the bag and do not overdo it (unless you use organics in which case you may overdo it without fear of hurting anything). At this point you do not have to worry about weed and feed products - remember at this point you are just trying to grow grass, not perfect it. Besides once you are doing these three things correctly, your weed problems should go away without herbicide.