Indiana Lawn problems & get well plan

vette1966

14 years ago

I live in central Indiana and 10 years ago, I spot seeded my new lawn with PenningtonÂs contractor grade lawn seed. The seed was advertised to germinate quickly, blend in well and provide a beautiful lawn. Unfortunately, the seed contained tall fescue 31which is a very fast growing undesirable thick bladed grass that grows in clumps & looks terrible in a rye and bluegrass lawn.

I recently purchased a pull behind lawn sprayer & applied a strong mixture of glyphosate with a hand sprayer to the problem areas. It has been 4 days since the application & still no dead fescue 31. Has anyone use glyphosate to kill fescue 31? How long do I have to wait until the fescue 31 dies? Is only a single application required? How long do I have to wait until I can reseed?

I plan to rent a slit-seeder and reseed the entire lawn. Does anyone have any tips to share about the slit-seeder? Does it work well? How long will to take to reseed an acre of grass?

I plan to use ScottÂs contractorÂs seed because it contains ~30% annual rye and germinates in 7 days. It is my understanding it will die out over the winter & I will be left with a bluegrass, perennial rye & creeping red fescue. Does anyone have any experience with this seed? IÂm seeking a thin bladed, no weed, lawn made up of rye, bluegrass and creeping red fescue.

Any advice on my lawn get well project will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for helping!

Andy

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Comments (4)

tiemco
14 years ago
Glyphosate starts working immediately, but it takes about a week till the grass turns brown and looks dead. In most cases one application will kill all the grass and growing weeds. You can seed very soon after as glyphosate inactivates when it hits the soil, and it doesn't inhibit germination. The label on the bottle should tell you when you can seed after an application, but I believe it is 7 days. Slit seeders are good but only if they are working perfectly. Also blends of different grass varieties generally don't do as well as single grass variety blends in slit seeders because you set the seeding rate according to the type of seed you are using. It is hard to set a rate when you have three different seed types. Now for the bad news. I think you are too late to seed a lawn, especially one with KBG. The usual recommendation is to seed no later than 6-8 weeks before the first frost (a good frost, not a marginal one). KBG takes a long time to germinate and establish, especially when temperatures are low. Ideally you should have been seeding a month and a half ago. If you do seed what will probably happen is that the rye would come up, but since it is annual, it will die off. The KBG and the CRF will probably germinate, but then die off too as the temps will be too cold for the seedlings to mature enough to make it to spring. My advice to you since you already did a lawn kill would be to do a dormant seeding, i.e. lay the seed down in late fall or winter, preferably before a snowstorm. The seeds will lay dormant all winter and germinate in early spring when the conditions are right.
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vette1966
Original Author
14 years ago
10-17-2009
Hello Tiemco!
Thanks for the information.
I now plan to dormant seed my lawn after Thanksgiving.
However, what is the best way to prepare for the seed
Is a Power Aerator or plunger all that is required?
Is a Power Thatcher / vertical lawn mower preferred?
I plan to use a 24 years old Scotts precision flow drop spreader for the seed.
Thanks!
Andy
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Even though Auteck and Formicburn are saying things that are completely opposite, they both have some valid points. The picture could be showing that the tall fescue wasn't able to develop deep roots, so it is more drought stressed. It could also be showing that tall fescue doesn't deal well with dull mower blades. Tall fescue is particularly prone to tearing from dull mower blades. Tall fescue doesn't have the deepest root system of all cool season grasses (maybe it has the deepest root system of the cool season grasses used for lawns, but not the deepest of all cool season grasses). Tall fescue roots go down a maximum of 3 or 4 feet. Western wheatgrass roots go down more than 10 feet and so much of the root mass is deep that it doesn't even benefit much from water that only reaches the top foot of soil. If tall fescue is able to develop a deep root system, it uses somewhere between 10 and 30 percent less water than KBG. In my opinion, that's not a huge water savings in my opinion. K31 tall fescue probably has deeper roots than other tall fescues, but it's an unimproved pasture grass and (in my opinion) it doesn't look good in a lawn. If tall fescue can't develop deep roots, it can actually require more water than KBG. That coul dbe what we're seeing in the picture Auteck posted. Another thing to note is that KBG does better at snapping out of dormancy than tall fescue does. And if some of the grass dies, KBG does a better job of filling in the bare spots. Most tall fescue varieties are bunch grasses, although some newer varieties are weakly rhizomatous. I think KBG has a bad rap regarding water use. It can use more water than some of the alternatives, but unless you plan to go to extreme measures (as I have) and plant native grasses, if you water correctly, you won't see a lot of difference in water usage between KBG and tall fescue. I'm transitioning to a lawn of western and streambank wheatgrass, and will use about 1/4 the water that KBG uses. One point on which I know Auteck disagrees with me is mowing height. We've already agreed to disagree on that point. I think his lawn would be even more drought tolerant if he'd raise the mower deck. Taller grass is able to develop deeper roots. To get back to the original question, I'm pretty sure that Kentucky Bluegrass would do well in the state whose name it bears. There's a reason it's called that, after all.
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organicnoob
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When it comes to anything labeled "contractor" there's a general rule to follow. If it's something the contractor keeps after the job, like a tool, it's good, if it's something that stays on the job site, like grass seed, it's crap.
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tiemco
14 years ago
Dormant seeding is fairly passive. In terms of soil prep, you really don't need to do much of anything. I suppose you could power rake, seed and then top dress but normally you just spread the grass seed after all the leaves are off the trees and have been raked up. Ideally you want to do this right before a snowfall to limit the seed from being blown by the wind. Also when the snow melts it will work the seed into the soil a bit. I am certainly not an expert on it, and I would definitely do some internet research on this subject to better your chances of having good results. Dormant seeding won't give you the results of a good late summer seeding, but it is certainly better than nothing.
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Indiana Lawn problems & get well plan

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Indiana Lawn problems & get well plan

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vette1966
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