TTTF like Rebel IV would be a good choice in your area. You can have a KBG yard, but you're going to need a LOT of water in the summertime to keep it looking good.

TTTF will need a LOT of water in the summertime if its roots can't grow deep into the soil, which is often the case with clay soils around the country. Don't read too much into KBG needs a lot of water, it's a misconception for the most part. All turfgrasses need water or they will turn brown and die.

Shawnann, KBG does grow in Louisville, KY as the NTEP ratings will prove that.

Perfectly fine to overseed your Fescue lawn with KBG, but in the Fall or late summer.

Check the NTEP ratings for the best varieties for your site/climate.

Look at this picture of my Bluegrass (top) vs my neighbor's Tall Fescue (bottom) during drought conditions in Cary, NC:

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One can easely say that Tall Fescue needs more water than Bluegrass based on the picture...

ha ha that's funny. If you knew what you were talking about you would know that kbg needs more water than tall fescue. Tall Fescue has the DEEPEST root system of all cool season grasses whether you grow it in rock hard clay or loam. You throw a picture up and act like the other guy is just as crazy as you are about your lawn. It's obvious that you watered your lawn during the drought and both of your neighbors didn't. His lawn looks pretty good for not being watered. I know you're biased towards kbg, but come on....LOL

Grasses that need the most amount of water in order:

1. bentgrass
2. prg
3. kbg
4. fescues
5. st. aug
6. bahiagrass
7. centipede
8. zoysia
9. bermuda

10. buffalograss

Even though Auteck and Formicburn are saying things that are completely opposite, they both have some valid points.

The picture could be showing that the tall fescue wasn't able to develop deep roots, so it is more drought stressed. It could also be showing that tall fescue doesn't deal well with dull mower blades. Tall fescue is particularly prone to tearing from dull mower blades.

Tall fescue doesn't have the deepest root system of all cool season grasses (maybe it has the deepest root system of the cool season grasses used for lawns, but not the deepest of all cool season grasses). Tall fescue roots go down a maximum of 3 or 4 feet. Western wheatgrass roots go down more than 10 feet and so much of the root mass is deep that it doesn't even benefit much from water that only reaches the top foot of soil.

If tall fescue is able to develop a deep root system, it uses somewhere between 10 and 30 percent less water than KBG. In my opinion, that's not a huge water savings in my opinion.

K31 tall fescue probably has deeper roots than other tall fescues, but it's an unimproved pasture grass and (in my opinion) it doesn't look good in a lawn.

If tall fescue can't develop deep roots, it can actually require more water than KBG. That coul dbe what we're seeing in the picture Auteck posted.

Another thing to note is that KBG does better at snapping out of dormancy than tall fescue does. And if some of the grass dies, KBG does a better job of filling in the bare spots. Most tall fescue varieties are bunch grasses, although some newer varieties are weakly rhizomatous.

I think KBG has a bad rap regarding water use. It can use more water than some of the alternatives, but unless you plan to go to extreme measures (as I have) and plant native grasses, if you water correctly, you won't see a lot of difference in water usage between KBG and tall fescue. I'm transitioning to a lawn of western and streambank wheatgrass, and will use about 1/4 the water that KBG uses.

One point on which I know Auteck disagrees with me is mowing height. We've already agreed to disagree on that point.

I think his lawn would be even more drought tolerant if he'd raise the mower deck. Taller grass is able to develop deeper roots.

To get back to the original question, I'm pretty sure that Kentucky Bluegrass would do well in the state whose name it bears. There's a reason it's called that, after all.

Formicburn,

I'm not saying that Bluegrass is more drought tolerant than Fescue, I think most people know that. Show me where I wrote that?

The picture I posted is as real as the earth is round. I haven't water that section of my lawn yet this year. It's the only part I have left that is nearly 100% Midnight II Bluegrass, the rest of my lawn and what you see on top of the picture (to the left of the driveway) is my Bluegrass/Ryegrass lawn that I watered once this year so far, and probably water again this Sunday. To the very top of the picture is my neighbors TTTF, which clearly shows drought stress.

BP, I think you're right on the mower's blade. The reason I say that is because I know that my Bluegrass is mixed with that Fescue due to spreading over the past 4 years. If both grasses did not spread, then the line could/will be perfect.

Also, when I took that picture, I was mowing at 2 inches, and 3 inches everything else. During high rainfall days/weeks, I bring the mower down to 2 1/2 inches to avoid disease.

I think is very interesting that my neighbor's TTTF lawn gets mowed at the highest setting (probably 3 1/2 inches) and my bluegrass down to 2" and still shows better. I have clay soil just like him, and of course, the same sun exposure.

I must reveal one of my secrets, however, that section of the lawn does not have any type of crabgrass pre-emergent (it is one of my never ending experiments) By far is the best looking section of my entire lawn area.

BTW, a turfgrass expert told me once that he saw 12 foot long tall fescue roots on a site in California (arguably, the best soils in the country to grow grass) But hard clay soils only allow for 4 to 6 inches tops. So the drought benefit is a moot point here.

I think one of the reason the bluegrass did better than the fescue in that picture is because the fibrous root system and the top notch maintenance I give it.

autuck wrote:
"I think one of the reason the bluegrass did better than the fescue in that picture is because the top notch maintenance I give it".

This is the reason. Like I said before the tall fescue doesn't look that bad considering the fact that his maintenance is not the same as yours.

Bpgreen,

I was saying cool season grasses that were used as turf. I don't know this for a fact, but i doubt western wheatgrass is a good turf grass.

Anyways, TTTF is the recommended grass for that area. If you want kbg it's going to require more maitnenance just as Auteck stated.

Formicburn, you did not quote me entirely, I said:

I think one of the reason the bluegrass did better than the fescue in that picture is because the fibrous root system and the top notch maintenance I give it.

So you conveniently left "the fibrous root system" out...???

Also, what I meant by top notch is that I sharpen my every 3 months, nothing else - vs my neighbor's once per year. But wait, he mows at the highest setting and I mow at 2 inches, so why don't the TTTF roots go deeper looking for water??? I think we stablished that.

I think that if the tables were turn and the Bluegrass was the Fescue in that picture, you'll be saying: "you see, Fescue is more drought tolerant and Bluegrass requires more maintenance and a heck of a lot more water..."

"I was saying cool season grasses that were used as turf. I don't know this for a fact, but i doubt western wheatgrass is a good turf grass. "

It's one of the grasses I've got in my lawn and I like it, although some people would probably find it a little too blue. There are a number of regular posters on the Rocky Mountain forum who have it as either the only grass in their lawn or as one of a couple of grasses.

bpgreen,

Do you have any pics of your lawn online? What you're doing sounds interesting and I would love to see what it looks like when someone who cares about his lawn plants native grasses instead of just where it happens on it's own.

I posted a picture that shows pretty much all of the grasses in my lawn here in the Rocky Mountain Garden forum.

Thank you for the debate.

Our lawn is definitely a fescue mix. We don't plan on killing it and starting over again...just considering adding some kbg to help it stay filled in better. I know our lawn needs more work than just that, but I was hoping when we overseed in the fall that this type of grass would help us a bit. It would not be the primary grass unless it just took over.

I am also not sure that "watering needs" was the problem my dh is concerned about. I will have to check and get back about that.

We are still pretty new to homeowning and taking care of this lawn is a learning experience. I think we have already either got some fertilizer burn or brown patch in a few spots. We did not know not to fertilize. We just went by the scotts "advertising" recommendations. Lesson learned!

Thanks for all your advice and help!

If you currently have tall fescue and like it and are just adding the KBG for the spreading, you may want to look into some of the newer varieties of tall fescue that are rhizomatous.

Some examples are Labarinth, Grande, Titan. There may be others. I think Labarinth is available in Watersaver RTF (a fescue blend) and Grande is in Defiannce XRE blend.

Thank you bpgreen. That was an interesting read. It's light but not as light as I thought it would be. Looks like when you get the KBG, K31 killed and weeds under control it will look very nice.