Very nice...and you do have quite a bit of shade! Fallen leaves is something I will have problems with over the next few weeks; mainly Poplar as the others don't lose their leaves until late October. I too wish I had I had things done by now, but ten inches of rain the last seven days slowed that down.

Thanks for sharing.

Nice work. It's coming in dense. Not a criticism by any means, but may I ask why you seeded incrementaly like you did?

Thanks reelfanatic, no offense taken. Part of it was time constraints, I could have probably knocked it all out if I had a whole Sunday or Saturday to do it, but I didn't. Also it was a little more involving than I thought. All the areas I killed got about 2 inches of good compost, that was then rolled, then seeded, then top dressed by hand. Also I hand seeded since the areas were irregular in shape, and there were different seeding rates for areas with no grass, some grass, or a lot of grass. I guess I could have seeded the yard at the overseed rate with a spreader, then do the other areas with more seed, but that would have maybe saved and hour or two. Also I don't like to leave exposed seed overnight, so I just broke it up into areas that I knew I could do before the sun was down. I had a nice area in the back yard that was a 1500 rectangle that I did the day after I finished the front. That took very little time since it didn't require the compost, I used a broadcast spreader for the seed, and I still top dressed by hand (which is probably the most time consuming part). If I overseed next year it will be so much faster as I can just seed with a spreader and top dress.

>"More of the same [snipped] it sure bothered me. "

RIGHT ON!

And this is the nut! It explains why we renovate in our pursuit.

Best of luck, tiemco !!!

I certainly have some shade issues, but the good thing is that the yard faces due south, so I get sun from about 7:30 till 1:00 or 2:00, and I probably get more in the late summer, early fall as the sun is lower in the sky. I think it also helps in the summer with reducing my watering needs.

tell me about squirrels --total pain. Problem is when you remove them --either "humanly" or otherwise-- another moves in. It's a constant battle and they do damage especially if you have hickory or butternut trees. They say they will on average dig 4000 holes a year. It's when they do it in your lawn that you want to get the gun out.

Yes, I have heard of the futility of removing squirrels, but I really haven't seen many, or had much damage this year. I attribute it to my relocation efforts. Squirrels bury nuts and then dig them up in the spring. If I removed the squirrels last year that buried nuts, then they can't dig up what they buried, and if I relocate new ones before they bury nuts or look for buried nuts, then they can't do any damage either. Of course you can't get them all, but last fall the damage they did was ridiculous, which prompted me to trap them. This spring there were very few squirrels, and very little damage. I have moved 4 so far this fall, and I rarely see them or evidence of their digging now. It's like weeds, if you stay on top of them, then they really aren't a problem, but if you get lazy, then they come back.

We have a red fox that seems to do a good job keeping the squirrels away ;)

Red fox huh, where can I get one of those? Can you house train them? I was going to become a falconer, and get myself a red tailed hawk, figured his food would be free, but I don't have that kind of time.

Our neighborhood would need a whole herd of foxes. My neighbor trapped nearly 40 in March and April. I got about 12 but there is always more that move in as soon as there is a vacancy.

Wow, that's crazy. I live in a very wooded area and we have virtually no squirrels running around. A few here and there but they seem content to stay within the tree line. In fact, I've never seen one on my grass. Could be the fox or maybe some outdoor cats taking them out. I haven't even seen a rabbit recently now that I think about it...

I think the reason some people have problems like myself is the type of trees they have. I have two hickory trees in front that are very tall and produce lots of squirrel food. There is a black walnut in back that also attracts all those forest rats. Since you have a very wooded area they probably have more food in the woods than near or on your lawn.

You're probably right...we have acorns dropping everywhere.

Someone is good at taking pictures. Might I suggest one offering....for picture taking only.

Try going diagonally across your lawn --one way one day, then in the other direction the next day.
Some people, me included, thinks this can help the lawn stand up better to how its mowed.
Besides, the eye is not so much on furrows...doesn't see the lines...I've been doing it this way all my life....and it does seem to look better especially when the lawn is lush.

For that....trees do take a lot of moisture out of the ground and grass and plants pay the price.
Put down some organic material each fall, each spring...this will help the soil accumulate material that will hold onto moisture. This can be done by simply overlaying 1/2 = 1 inch of comopost or topsoil (good topsoil) then letting the grass come up through it.
Do it in spring, when the grass is being encouraged and again in the fall when the grass has no competition and grows on its own initiative.

The bare spots, can be encouraged to fill in by properly fertilizing with the correct type for the type of lawn you have. The lawn should be fed regularly to maintain its growth potential.

The trees sucking the life out of the ground will always be with you--its the nature of the beast.
Remove grass within 2 feet of the trunk...this can cut down on the number of pests hiding in the tree's wood which can affect the ground--and thus the grass. The tree then has less need to steal from the grass.

Keep the fertilizer away from the base of the tree and gardens. Water soluble fertilizer should be watered in prior to fertilizing. Granular type, water after application.

I always vary the direction of the mowing from week to week. If you look at the pictures you can see the first set of pics was north/south, the second set after the glyphosate is southeast/northwest. I happen to like the light/dark stripes my mower makes, and in reality it fades pretty quickly because it is only made by a light piece of plastic that is attached to the back of the mower. The wheels leave deeper grooves but I don't feel like buying wider wheels for my mower.

OK, so it's been a week since the last set of pictures, and the weather has been good, the deer and squirrels haven't done much damage, and the grass is still green. So enough talk, lets look at some pics.

Here's the view from the street:
{{gwi:117238}}

To the left, looking at the brown patch area near the telephone poles:
{{gwi:117240}}

The hose bridge!
{{gwi:117241}}

Here's the front brown patch area by the flowers and driveway:
{{gwi:117242}}

Here is the area looking towards the sycamore. I have been blowing the leaves as best I could off the new grass onto the old that has been overseeded. Seems like there has been some thinning on the border of the old and the new, which you can kind of see here:
{{gwi:117243}}

Here's looking at the sycamore from the opposite side:
{{gwi:117244}}

So it's been 15, 14, and 13 days for the three sections. Some areas are at 3 inches, others are 2 at the most. Most of the difference is probably due to the amount of sun the taller areas get. I am dying to cut the whole yard, (gotta get those leaves off) but I am going to hold off for one more week so that it is all at or above 3 inches, unless any of the areas start laying down, then I will probably selectively mow. The weather forecast for the next week is cool for the next three days, rain for the weekend, but warmer, and then still warm (low 70's) with sun on monday and tuesday. So tuesday will probably be the big day, and of course I will have to take pics after that momentous occassion. See you next week.

wow, nice job.

what was your top dressing combo of peat moss to topsoil?

Here's what I do for topdressing. I have a screen I made, it's 3' x 4'. The screen is 1/4" hardware cloth. I use Scott's premium top soil which, contrary to what it says on the bag, contains rocks and small sticks. It also contains peat moss, which I like. I put my wheel barrow under the screen, which is on sawhorses. Then I use two bags of topsoil and enough peat moss (the compressed kind) to fill the barrow. Then I mix it up with a shovel and I'll add a little water since the peat moss is so dry. I have also used screened Scotts premium topsoil as a dressing, but that can get expensive for large areas. I find that the peat moss creates a meshlike structure that prevents washout.

Really nice results. I wish there were a way to cost-effectively and time-effectively scale up your approaches to 1+ acres without paying the pros. I've had success following a similar course in smaller problem areas, but I have a back 1.5 acres that needs work. I did a partial renovation a few weeks ago and it will be improved eatly by spring, but not solved.

Thanks bobinbaltimore. I can't imagine doing an acre. I think I used about a cubic yard or so of topdressing on 3000 sq. ft., but on an acre I don't think you would do that step. To do an acre you would need a tractor for sure. I bet you could learn a lot if you worked on a sod farm. They have to plant huge new grass plots every year, they must have it down to a science.

Well it's been another week of watering and watching. I have definitely cut back on the watering, and we got a torrential downpour on saturday, so I didn't have to water on sunday or monday. Yesterday (monday 10/5) was the first time I mowed the whole front yard since 9/13. What a relief to get the leaves up as well as finally cutting the reseeded area. It's also nice to cut the new stuff since that promotes thickening and tillering. OK, enough talk, lets look at some pics. Here's the view of the lawn from the street:

{{gwi:117245}}

And looking left to the area by the telephone pole that was hit hard by brown patch this summer:

{{gwi:117246}}

Looks pretty good from the far shot, lets look a bit closer. Here's looking at the sycamore from the driveway:

{{gwi:117247}}

And from the other side:

{{gwi:117248}}

And looking down towards the street at the border of the old and the new:

{{gwi:117251}}

You can see the difference in the old and the new. The year old areas are obviously darker and thicker. It hasn't even been a month so I am not worried as the new grass is mostly single blades with no real tillering. I expect more thickening and darker color in the next month as long as the weather cooperates, but I am pretty sure it won't be till next year until the new stuff really hits its stride. Here is a closeup of the new/old border:

{{gwi:117253}}

Here is the front part near the flower bed that was also hit pretty good by brown patch this summer:

{{gwi:117256}}

{{gwi:117258}}

I guess the hard part is pretty much over now, hopefully it will progress nicely till the late fall dormancy ensues. The only thing to worry about is those stupid deer, and the squirrels. Of course this morning one of those forest rats tore up a few small areas right down by the street. I guess he wanted to show everyone his handiwork. If he keeps this up I will show him my .22. Tune in next week for the usual update.

That's really looking nice. It'll probably look even better next year.

I'm envious. Nice!

tiemco, out of curiosity, why did you go with TTTF as opposed to KBG or PRG?

Thanks guys. Saw your bad luck gamountains, that happened to my backyard poa triv planting a few days ago, it was coming alone nicely, now it looks terrible.

Seven333, I don't think I have enough sun in the front to do an all KBG or PRG lawn. Certain areas would do ok I think, like near the street, but others might struggle. What I might do in the future is a light overseed with the a shade tolerant KBG like America, but I kind of like the idea of having it all TTTF, that way the fertilizer and water demands are just one value.

wow this looks great! Nice job, worth all the effort!

Well it's been about a month since I put the seeds down. Just mowed it for the second time today. The weather is getting cooler, no frost yet, but probably a soft one later this week after a big cold front moves in. Hopefully it will pass and be followed by a warm up. This will probably be the last batch of pics for the year unless it looks a lot different in the next few weeks. Here's the view from the street:
{{gwi:117259}}

A little closer:
{{gwi:117260}}

A look at the area near the telephone pole that was wiped out this summer by brown patch:
{{gwi:117261}}

By the street, another area that was hit hard this summer:
{{gwi:117262}}

Looking towards the sycamore from the driveway:
{{gwi:117263}}

Looking towards the street at the boarder of the old and the new:
{{gwi:117265}}

Looking towards the sycamore from the other side:
{{gwi:117266}}

You can still see the difference between the old and the new in terms of color and texture. I expect this to remain so until next year. My biggest fear is that the new cultivars will still be markedly different from the old by next year, but only time will tell. The older TTTF is a mix of middle of the pack cultivars, none of them near the top of the NTEP's, unlike the ones I planted this year. I guess the worst case scenario means I have to redo the older sections next year.

I'm envious!

Your yard looks awesome. I have seeded fescue in my backyard and it is doing well also. I was wanting to reseed, but was going to see if you would answer some questions. I was wanting to seed during september, but am afraid of all the leaves that will fall. Does the small seedlings hold up to the force from the blower? Also do you reseed every year?

Pretty awesome results. Well done!

Wow, didn't think this thread would be brought back from the dead. It's been about one year since that partial renovation. The grass looked great this spring. It matured and was very consistent plus we had adequate spring rains. The summer however was very hard on it. Basically had drought conditions here in CT, and it was one of the hottest summers on record. I did my best to keep it green, but had a few small brown areas, and a diffuse die off in certain areas. I repaired a few areas about a week ago and they are just poking through now. The seedlings have no problem with the leaf blower, but walking on them might stunt them a bit. My yard is fairly narrow, and I had some established grass as you can see, so I was able to blow them onto the established grass. The majority of the leaves were from a sycamore tree. Sycamores are always shedding leaves and bark from spring to fall. The maples and oaks generally start to drop leaves around the time of the first mowing, so it works out pretty well if you don't have sycamores. I overseed when the yard needs it. Since this was the first year after the renovation the grass in most areas was still very thick, maybe too thick in places, hence the diffuse die off in certain areas, but I did not feel the need to overseed.

Old thread, but that does look great, well done on the renovation. I have tall fescue here in the Mojave Desert (110+ degrees in summer) and can't imagin that you could get hotter than that? Mine seems to grow just fine, very little browning...but it does go somewhat dormant for about a month in summer...a lot of it just stops growing, but stays green.

How dense did you lay your seed on the newly planted areas? Did you overseed again in the spring?

Wow, TF in the Mojave, I have some questions. You must have irrigation, so how much do you water? Do you know what cultivars your lawn has? Is your soil pretty sandy? This would be helpful as it would allow deep roots to develop. I imagine your nights get pretty cool most of the year. This probably keeps the soil cool, which helps. I bet you see almost no fungal disease since your air is so dry. Is this true? When I seeded the new areas I went about 10-11 lbs./1000 sq. ft. This is near the high end for the mix I used. This year I did a small 175 sq. ft area over and used 8 lbs/1000. We'll see how that goes. No need to overseed in the spring following a fall renovation/overseed. If I do overseed next year I am thinking of using some KBG for its self repairing ability.

Yeah, I have an Orbit timer setup with three different valves, each valve runs three sprinklers (I wish I had put in an underground sprinkler system, but oh well). I haven't measured how many inches yet, but I run each valve for 15 minutes (45 min total) each day, until it starts to runoff. Now I'm down to 15 minutes each valve every 3 days since it's only in the 90's now. It does take a lot of water, but it's well worth it and water is dirt cheap here...imagine that in the desert! (I only pay about $25/month for about 2500 cubic ft.).

Soil is rock hard clay, no sand, you literally have to use a sharpened pick axe to dig it up. What I did to prepare was pick axe the whole dirt back yard (about 8" down), then mixed in a truck load of compost (about 30% compost). There were some areas where the grass grew great until the heat kicked in, so I dug those up last week and reseeded (I didn't dig down deep enough so the roots stopped growing).

I water at 5am, and humidity is only like 10% usually, so yeah, no fungal disease worries here! In the peak of summer it gets down to the 80's only, now it gets down to 50's. We freeze overnight in Jan/Feb as well.

I was amazed to see Tall Fescue growing here too (since it's cool season grass), but a lot of lawns here are fescue and that's pretty much all the stores carry. I use the generic Contractor's Mix from Lowes (which is one of the cheaper bags, but I've had great success with it), I'll have to check what cultivars are in the bag and report back.

Beautiful job! I bet your neighbors are jealous as hell!

I also have TTTF..

Just curious? Since there is no curb or sidewalk, do you get traffic running over your lawn on occassion or foot traffic, dogs etc? and what about in the winter...the salt trucks and city trucks ? that would drive me nuts!

Oh yeah, the no curb thing is such a pain. I would say someone drives on the lawn at least twice a week. It's ridiculous, and it's usually the stupid mailman. Also the heat from the street means it requires more water in the summer than the rest of the lawn. Not much foot traffic or dogs thankfully but the cars are out of control.

tiemco man your yard is lovely, what is tttf?

Yes, TTTF (Firecracker LS, Cochise IV, Faith). Those pics are pretty old (October 2009). I posted some new ones on this forum in another thread about a week ago (link below). As you can see the mature grass is a much darker green, thicker, with a better texture. The lawn is uniform and the TTTF is spreading now that it's mature:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lawns/msg0621330425292.html?12

Tiemco can you tell me were I can purchase the 3 cultivars that you are useing Ill like mixed a little blue grass in.

Thanks Robb,
maryland

tiemco, very nice lawn!!!

Thanks for making this thread. I also saw your other thread. Your lawn is looking great! :)

Your photo's are down. Do you think you could get them back up? We are about to attempt this in our front yard and it would be very helpful to have photo references.

Thank you

Tiemco has been gone for a long time. Start a thread and we'll help you.