Organic/Pesticide-Free Regulations

17 years ago

I had an interesting discussion yesterday with our ag inspector at the greenhouse I run. Upon inspection, she noticed we had bleach and vinegar for cleaning purposes. We use the bleach as a diluted solution to spray the seeding trays I use after we wash them with soap. The bleach solution dries for 1 week, and we rinse the tray prior to the next seeding.

I have thin emitter hoses that get clogged once in a while and build up too much of a calcium deposit. So I soak these hoses in a diluted vinegar solution to take off the calcium and flush material out (some of that material just happens to be filamentous bacteria, but I am not out to kill the bacteria...my goal is to clear obstructions). We then thoroughly rinse the hoses and allow them to dry before they are cycled back in to the grow tables.

Apparently, the use of bleach and of vinegar is considered a pesticide, even on our supplies...and we can't be considered pesticide-free or organic. Has anyone ever heard of such drastic measures?

It just makes no sense that we can't sterilize our supplies when necessary...to avoid harmful bacteria from potentially entering a crop (like e-coli) and to keep viruses from spreading and wiping it out. We don't spray anything on our crop, we use organic IPM practices! As organic gardeners that sell your crop, what do YOU use to keep things safe and clean? I mean, we also have to comply with food safety regulations with the FDA in terms of cleanliness during production, and it would be completely foolish to have something like molds or botrytis infection being spread because you couldn't sterilize the clippers you use. So what can I do?

Also, I am hoping to find a few of you out there that can direct me to some links via the internet that outline these principles...because I can't find them. In my opinion, it should be easily accessible, but that is beside the point.

I should note that this was stated as a California issue by the inspector.

Thank you for any input you may have, folks.

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Comments (11)

Kimmsr
17 years ago
Check with OMRI to see what they allow. I was able to see that Acetic Acid is a permitted cleaning agent without being a subscriber and would imagine the bleach would be also.
skagit_goat_man_
17 years ago
Was your greenhouse inspector a inspector for an organic certifying agency. If not ignore what she said and check with your certifying agency. I believe you'll find that certain chlorine solutions are allowed but perhaps not the Chlorox brand type. Tom
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pablo_nh
17 years ago
Heck- you could brew your own vinegar pretty easily. It's produced by a bacterium.
squeeze
17 years ago
Pablo, "brewing yer own" vinegar isn't "pretty easy", unless you don't care how much alcohol remains or how many critters besides acetobacter are present, and it does take a fairly long period to "brew" well naturally

I agree with above posts, check with your local certifying group - any organic regulations in Canada I've heard of allow acetic acid and 5% chlorine for sterilizing equipment, tho bleach is discouraged because it's not a great thing to be putting into the sewage system in quantity - I've supplied a certified organic dairy with natural cider vinegar to clean udders :)

Bill
anniew
17 years ago
Just a clarification, not a justification from someone who was a pesticide inspector many years ago (in NY state). The reason your inspector said bleach was a pesticide was due to the definition of pesticide by the EPA. It is anything that kills, mitigates, repels, etc. pests (insects, diseases, mollusks, weeds, etc). Therefore, by definition it is a pesticide. You'll notice that on the label of a bleach bottle there is an EPA number for its registration as a pesticide and another number that gives information for where it was produced.
Whether it is considered organic or not is something you should talk with an organic certifying agency about. Many things that are certified organic have an OMRI or similar label on them, but not all things.
Good luck.
Ann
anniew
17 years ago
P. S. I forgot to mention that just because one item of something, like a particular brand of fish emulsion, is a certified organic product does not necessarily mean that all brands of fish emulsion are certified, as the process to make the final product may be different and use some components in the processing that are not certifiable.
Ann
pablo_nh
17 years ago
Squeeze- in this case, all that is needed is the acidity, so it should be fairly simple.
squeeze
17 years ago
except the development of the acetic acid can easily stop at about 3% in the right [wrong] situation, not enough for any dependable 'sterilizing' effect .... easier to use the alcohol :)

Bill
Dibbit
17 years ago
As well, Squeeze and Bill, Gardenjo says she is running an organic greenhouse, so she NEEDS the paperwork to be correct and to have the proper certifications. Do-it-yourself may be fine for home gardeners, but is insufficient for commercial operations. OMRI is/are the best place to look and see what is acceptable to use. I can't imagine that NO "pesticides" are allowed, but can accept that only the allowed ones are permitted. If the ag inspector wasn't an organic standards inspector (or whatever title such people have) then she may have had the somewhat muddled idea that NO pesticides are allowed for an organic operation.
pablo_nh
17 years ago
The vinegar wasn't for sterilizing- it was to break up calcium stone. Soaked in 3% (as opposed to ~5%) for a while- that would probably get things moving.
ntbio
17 years ago
Very well informed answers in most cases! Remember that there are allowed and restricted products for use in organic production...rememebr to read the labels!

Organic/Pesticide-Free Regulations

Comments (11)

Kimmsr

skagit_goat_man_

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