I tried that for curculio, but I don't see what it would do for codling moth since they fly.
It's also not effective for curculio (according to college studies, and I agree, they don't walk up the tree like I've seen claimed by some organic sources, I never caught one on the trunk, but I have caught them on sticky balls).

If you want to try it, I just wrapped some duct tape around the trunk and painted it with Tangletrap.

I think the cardboard is to attract them for general life as a moth or life after apple. The egg laying is what the moths do to ruin the apples. You need to change the cardboard often for that to be effective.

I take it you're trying to figure out a reliable organic way to grow fruit.
Try reading these. IMO this is the only effective (both in cost and results) organic control for apples.

Here is a link that might be useful: fruit bagging

Laurie:

Agree with Myk on all major points. I don't know what your European friends are catching with their sticky bands around the trunk, but it's not codling moth. This pest is a night flyer, interested only in laying its eggs on the surface of the apples, so when they hatch the larvae can begin to burrow into the fruit to continue their life cycle. In the off-season, codling pupae live in the ground beneath fallen apples and leaf debris.

You don't say where you live (and you should), but if it is in a zone 5 east or midwest, the plum curculio, which gets started earlier than codling moth, is as much of a threat or more to apples than codling moth. PC lays its eggs even on very small apples, especially when they have not been thinned and are still in clusters. Damage from PC can easily be mistaken for CM.

If you really want to raise your apples in an organic, or nearly organic way, the best way I have found is the same as Myk's suggestion, and that is bagging in ziplock sandwich bags while the apples are still small, just after thinning. Much has been written on this subject right here on the Fruit Forum, and more can be found with a simple search on Google. If you have any specific questions about this procedure, I am sure someone will try to answer them, but do some of your own research first so you have at least a basic understanding of how it is done.

I have been bagging my apples for 5 years now, and you should be aware that even this may not solve everything for the true organic purist (which I am not). Bagging should be done as early as possible, but that cannot happen until the apples have grown up to at least thinning size (a quarter or larger) and you can select the best one to bag and remove the rest from each cluster. While you are waiting for the little apples to grow up to thinning size, the plum curculio will often be at work ruining as many as she can. For this reason, I spray my trees with an insecticide at least twice before the thinned apples are safely in their bags. If you are so, so organic that you cannot contemplate even a couple of very early sprays then you may find that the PC has visited many of the largest, best apples you would like to keep and bag.

Finally, it goes without saying that to hand thin and bag apples, the size of the tree must be such that the apples are within your reach, either from the ground or a ladder. That is one reason why most of us grow dwarf or semi-dwarf trees. 30 or 40 foot apple trees are impossible to care for, and must be left to the mercies of nature.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

I believe the corrugated cardboard is to trap the larvae as they travel down the trunk on their way to the ground just before they dig in and pupate. The corrugations are supposedly quite tempting for them to climb into while others just pupate along the trunk under the shelter of the cardboard. That's the theory. I've never tried it. It's cheap and easy enough, why not give it a try?

My guess is the Europeans are trying to do the same thing with their sticky trap: catch the larvae. Note that according to UC Davis (below) the problem is them travelling back up the tree to pupate; they usually drop directly from the apple to the ground. It sounds like not all of them will climb back up the tree in any case, and so it will eliminate some but not all in the best case. I have not tried this technique myself since I have many small trees and it would be too much work, but if I had only a couple really big trees I would be keeping the trunk base treated.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: UC Davis link

I don't think they're successfully catching the codling moth larvae in tangletrap. I had one on one of my sticky balls and it was moving freely.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies, and apologies for my delay in sending thanks.

I think I'll try several of the suggestions made in this thread, including placing corrugated cardboard and perhaps even a sticky band around the trunk, a few traps, thinning and definitely bagging. I'm big into frugality, so if the bagging works, I'll use them exclusively in future.

I read another thread where jellyman described the bagging process and someone posted a helpful graphic of how the bags are cut. I look forward to trying this method!

I'm in Colorao and have added Colorado to my zone 5 mention at the top. Do you think that being in Colorado makes a difference in any of the techniques y'all described?

I planted 2 small pear trees some weeks ago and will try bagging them too.

We get very very violent winds here from the Rocky Mountains. It will be interesting to see if the bags stay on the tree.

Finally, a few people advised picking up all apple tree leaves asap. They say that something on some of the leaves (can't remember if it's a disease, insect, larvae or something else) finds its way back up the tree and causes problems. Is this true?

LaurieDutch

Laurie:

The apple disease that is frequently said to overwinter in leaves beneath the tree is scab. I don't normally have a problem here with scab, and you may not either in your Colorado location, but far be it from me to discourage orchard hygiene which is a very good practice. My biggest apple disease bugaboo is cedar apple rust, which blows in early in spring from infected Eastern Red Cedars, which I don't think you have in Colorado.

Properly installed ziploc sandwich bags will hold on the tree in very high winds. You have to make sure the zipper is fully closed and locked right up to the apple stem on both sides. Often, you must run your fingers across the zipper several times to ensure it is really closed, at which point it will emit no more little snaps.

I have not found it necessary to bag pears, either Asian or European, since they seem not to be bothered much by the usual apple pests. Living at altitude in Colorado should give you a distinct advantage in the disease department, compared with humid lower areas of the east or midwest. I am not certain whether this advantage also extends to common insect pests like codling moth, plum curculio, and apple maggot fly.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don:

I'm pretty sure we have both scab and cedar apple rust in Colorado. I was advised not to plant any cedar in the garden, for the sake of the apples.

In the thread "Recommend Trap for Codling Moth Pheromone Lures" you said that you bag pears as well as apples in plastic, but in this thread you said you don't bag pears. Did you bag pears in the past and recently learn that it makes no difference? I want to be sure my pears do well next season.

We have one Parker pear (pyrus ÂparkerÂ) and one Summer Crisp (pyrus ÂsummercrispÂ). Both were planted about a month ago, are semi-dwarf and came in 5-gal containers so are fairly young and small. Do you think they might bear fruit in 2009?

Thanks.

LD

Laurie:

Yes, I did bag pears for two seasons, but, having found it unnecessary, no longer bag them. Your situation may be different, and you will find out through experience. Plum curculio can visit pears, but usually not enough to worry about, and the damaged pears are among those that are thinned off.

My European pear trees took 8-10 years to begin bearing, so I would say not in 2009. Asian pears can begin bearing in 3 years here.

I hope your neighborhood cedar (juniperis virginiana) situation is not as bad as mine. I have to spray early with Ferbam or risk losing up to 90% of my apples to CAR. The Ferbam must be there when the CAR spores arrive, since fungicides can only prevent, not cure this disease.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Your friends are slightly mixed up. (You don't say where they are in 'Europe.' It's a big and diverse place with wide variations in climate, plants and pests, not to mention languages and cultures.) In the UK sticky bands or grease bands are not for codlin moth, they are for winter moth. They are put on in late October and are designed to catch the wingless females as they climb the trunks to lay their eggs. You can buy them or make your own with grease and cloth or paper strips.

However, sacking or corrugated cardboard bands without grease can be used to trap codlin caterpillars as they like to hide in loose bark or under tree ties to overwinter. So providing artificial hiding places which are then removed and destroyed can help to control them. They are put on in July and removed during the winter.

Flora:

My friends are in Ascot, UK. I'll ask if they confused the winter moth with the codling moth, or if they were perhaps thinking of the codling caterpillars. Thanks.

LD

I found these little "footies" called Maggot Barriers and I think I'll give them a try. Has anyone else ever used them? I guess if you have a huge crop it would be difficult.

Here is a link that might be useful: Maggot Barriers

LD - the location helps a lot, thanks. Here is a link which explains what grease bands are for. As you can see it expressly mentions that they are no use against codling moth. I think that is a pretty common misconception here.

Here is a link that might be useful: grease bands

I'm looking forward to trying jellyman's ziplock sandwich bag technique on my apple trees this season. He recommends spraying a few times before the apples are large enough to bag.

For the last 2-3 months, we have had very mild weather in Colorado. It's in the 60's and 70's this week.

Questions:
1. Should I spray the trees soon since the weather is so mild? Evenings still get down into the low 40s. Or should I wait and if so, what should I watch for in order to know when to spray?

2. Where can I acquire any of these (online, in shops, under their own names or as part of a mixture?):
- Imidan
- Permethrin
- spreader sticker for the Permethrin

3. I have a spray by Sevin that claims to kill plum curculio and coddling moth. Does anyone know if the Sevin spray is effective?

Thanks!

LaurieDutch

Milehighgirl: greetings from a CO raised boy living in KS. From what I recall reading here on the footies, bagging is the better alternative on apples. The footies worked well for me on peaches, for other people, not too well. I sprayed up until the footies were installed at about 3/4" fruit size then stopped. The best deal on footies is at the link below last I checked.

Here is a link that might be useful: Footies source

I was very pleased with the source Micahel357 recommends- good communicators, prompt shippers, reasonable prices.

M

Not bagging pears was a mistake, found lots of culio marks this week. Bagged them anyway, hoping they will develop marks and all. Strangely, the few pears I had missed bagging last year were clean when harvested. Maybe too few for bugs to find?

I agree that pears need to be bagged (at least in Colorado).

We don't have much fruit this year due to a spring freeze. I bagged all the apples and pears within the last 2 weeks. Today upon checking, I discovered that several have been attacked by whatever eats them (coddling moth or plum curculio).

Shall I leave them on the tree in the bags or is it a good idea to remove the invaded-fruit asap?

I'm wondering why they were attacked. Perhaps I was too late and the insects were already present in the fruits. But the fruits were really tiny when I bagged them.