Shades of my lawn as I had a massive poa bloom last fall that I didn't really notice until spring when it went nuts.

Spot treat as soon as you can.

Here's a neat trick--wear a rubber glove (as it's stuff you don't want on your skin for an extended period!) and either a cloth glove on top of it or (get this!) a Swiffer duster glove. You can get the rubber gloves (Rubbermaid makes them) and Swiffer gloves at your local grocery store.

Spray the fingers and palm of the glove with Round Up somewhere where you won't drip on the grass. Damp to moderately wet is great, but not so much that making a weak fist causes dripping.

Then grasp the poa and rub it with your hand.

Your +4 Glove of Death should last for at least a dozen plants before you need to refresh the Round Up.

Viola. Dead poa, no dead grass (or at least minimal). Since you added small amounts, death is slow but it does happen if you hit it pretty well with the Glove of Death.

Another one: The Swiffer broom with a Swiffer on it, damped, can be run over the top of the poa but high enough that it doesn't touch the grass. That works well, too.

Your other weeds can be treated the same, or spot-sprayed with Weed-B-Gone. They probably came from dormant seeds already in your soil, so don't blame the mulch company too much. Although some certainly could have come in that way, too.

Your grass should spread, or you can seed (now if you're careful, fall if you'd rather). Not knowing what pre-M you used, I can't tell you if it'll interfere. It might.

I used Lesco brand Pre M....stright from the local Lesco supplier.

Can I start treating for grubs this time of year?

Do you think my new seeded areas weathered through the winter ok....

Looks pretty good. when those small seedlings get bigger and start to spread, it will look nice and thick like the other parts already are--I don't see any areas that need patching. Make sure you feed your young stand well and mow regularly and often. You may also need to water more during the summer. Looks like a promising start--well done.

You can use a "season long" grub controller now if you want and/or a contact killer in early august.

Thanks for the comments......

The return of the POA grass is what has me upset! I hope after we solve the oil crises and alternative power for cars that scientist start working on a cure for outbreaks of POA Grass!

It's on the list, at #8......

poa trivialis? Yeah, it's hard to lick with just reseeding. I sprinkled some KBG seeds on a patch of garden that I wasn't using last fall. For whatever reason, it turned out to be all poa trivialis! In any case, consider getting some Certainty...it works very well on poa trivialis in KBG. PT will stand out markedly in the backdrop of your darker elite KBG.

Well the Guys at Lesco think I'm crazy for ordering "Certainty" at $132.00 an ounce. My house sits on a 1/4 acare lot. They did put the order in for me, it well be here Wednesday. Any suggestions on how to mix a small amount of this stuff and apply it as a "spot only treatment"?

Is there anyone in the Dayton Ohio area who needs a bit of this stuff?

Any suggestions on how to mix a small amount of this stuff and apply it as a "spot only treatment"?

I did exactly the same and still have about 0.97 ounces left...

You can get a small tank sprayer, the hand-held 1 or 2 gallon kind, at any garden or big-box store. The container of Certainty comes with a spoon for mixing both smaller and larger amounts, so that's pretty easy. I think the instructions are for 2 gallons (check me on that!), but if so just divide by 2 for a 1 gallon sprayer.

I always add a small amount (2 tsp, maybe) of dishwashing detergent as a surficant to make the herbicide stick to the weed better.

Thanks for the suggestion about adding the soap to the Certainty mixture.....

I can't wait until Wednesday (thats when my order of Certainty gets to my local Lesco. I smell POA death in the air..............

I could not readily find mixing instructions in my packet insert, but Monsanto has it online (see attached).

One small scoopful per gallon for poa trivialis control in KBG lawns. Repeat application in 21-28 days.

http://www.monsanto.com/ito/layout/turf/certainty.asp

Here is a link that might be useful: Mixing instructions

Thanks Ml shmosh and Morpheuspa!

I just got my small zillion dollar shipment of "Centainty" today. I've read the links which were suggested and also the directions.

My plan is to mix one small spoonfull into a gallon sprayer.....this will give me the .50 pecent required.

However, can I spray prior to or after a rain? Do I need to wait when it will be hot. SOme of the POA is sprouting seeds is this a good time to spray?

Any suggestions?

Standing by

There's a minimum time before rainfall, but I'll be durned if I can remember what it is. Call it 3 hours to be safe, so if it's going to rain in the next three hours don't apply it.

Whether it's seeding doesn't matter. I've used it in cooler and warmer weather, both times to excellent results. Cool-weather use takes longer to show a result, but it works just the same.

On bluegrass, I had thought the recommended was 0.75, but I could be wrong. I distinctly remember using 1 1/2 tiny scoops in my gallon sprayer, though.

I' ll go with your recommendation of three scopes Morpheuspa...... At this point I'd give it a double dose.

thanks

The 0.75 dose is for the single application. The 0.5 is for 2 applications. I do not know which is safer for existing lawn.

Also, Meleca, if you are seeing seedheads, that most likely is poa annua. Certainty does not work quite so well on that--I think the younger the poa is the more likely it will stunt and yellow. you might consider rounding that up or if you are seeing seeds, removing the plant entirely. I find that with the moist spring soil, a Turf Hound will easily extricate one poa bunch, seeds and all. I just went around my lawn today and nabbed a ton--thankfully, among the backdrop of dark green, poa triv and annua are easy to identify.

A double dose is likely to negatively impact your bluegrass, so I'd go with 0.75. The above is correct--control isn't wonderful on late-stage annua, and I ended up using Round Up on mine in spots. That was before the grass came back, so it's happily growing in underneath, although slowly.

M1shmosh....... what is a turf hound?

Also looking a my lawn pictures above should I round up my newly seeded KBG or selectively try the Certainty? This year I have lots of other lighter green patches (trivia or annua)I think the Lesco Pre M i used did a poor job.

My mistake...I meant weed hound.

Unless you are selectively using roundup like with the cotton glove technique, I would go with the certainty on the poa. Do not feel like you have to get everything. You already put down the pre-emergent--that will stop a lot of summer annuals. Apply weed-b-gone when your grass can handle it. poa will be an ongoing battle but hopefully manageable. I am in my 3rd year now after renovation and only have selected areas with poa annua that seemingly is beyond my control. Most of my poa trivialis was eliminated with Certainty, except in wet areas.

My feeling on poa annua is this: it is better to round it up, stunt it badly with Certainty, or extricate it with the weed hound now, than it is to let it produce seed upon seed all spring/early summer and think pre-m in the fall will take care of it. These seeds can lie dormant and pop up in a few years--one fall/early winter pre-m coverage probably is not going to do it.

In any case, your pictures look fine. It is normal to be battling weeds at this stage. Your lawn will look fine.

Here is a link that might be useful: weed hound

Also, poa triv is the lighter green one that you don't normally see seeds with (unless you let it grow really long). It is a perennial and spreads to form patches. As it matures, it forms these thick stalks that like to fan out. I can see it in Pic 3 and 4.

I totally agree with the above. Any control is better than nothing, and helps tilt the advantage to your grass.

On the up side, Certainty will take out the Poa trivialis very well--it's as good as Round Up on that, and won't kill the surrounding grass.

OK...... I sprayed a couple of gallons of Certainty today. How long does it take for the POA to turn Brown and go belly up dead!

If it is somewhat cool where you are, give it a good week. It'll start turning yellow. KBG may or may not discolor slightly but for me, it's growth is stunted so it is always best to spot spray the poa as best as you can.

Next time, I am going to try the Morpheus-rec'd 0.75 rate.

I did not read all of the posts above...skipped the second half.

But...

Looks more like a perennial Ryegrass to me. Back of the blade shiny (glossy)? (I cannot tell from photo) But I can see: Prominent mid-vein, folded in the bud, v-shaped blade with a pointed tip and its green and growing early. RYEGRASS! Verify diagnosis by waiting...Annuals will seed and die off...perennial Rye will releaf after seeding if it is wet enough or may not seed at all if it is not dry.

Anyways...the reason I thought to actually post:

It is very seldom reccomended to Apply a Pre-emergent to newly seeded Ky Bluegrass (less than 1 year old) Pendimethilin (especially) is hard on young bluegrass and often stunts or kills immature plants. Bluegrass usually is thin and prone to weeds UNTIL it develops an extensive root system (9-10 months minimum--if a Fall seeding...June?) Anything that would adversely affect immature bluegrass should be avoided. Short term weed control is what chemicals can provide...but you'd not want to trade that control for long term weed control gained through turf density. So attend to fertility, PH, and watering to maximize root development.

Once bluegrass hits maturity, it can often rhyzome in and thicken perceptibly in a matter of weeks(it spreads asexually by rootspreading). Broadleaf weed controls can (cautiously) be applied in the Late Spring as they won't hurt as much--though I'd reserve the use of such for weeds that would be successfully competing for growing space with your stand of Bluegrass. If you ONLY have a few weeds...pull them. To do NATURAL crabgrass control, don't mow the new grass UNTIL it starts to fall over on itself from its own weight (Tall grass shades the soil some and will minimize soil temperatures and some weed germination and Crabgrass is a prostrate annual incapable of effectively competing vertically, so don't help it by mowing).

Hey M1 shmosh or perhaps anyone else.

After you use your weed-hound to remove the poa.....do u fill in the divot it leaves?

Also does anyone have pictures of Certainty working. I sprayed a bunch last week and only 50 percent of the are I sprayed is turning brown........did i do something wrong. I will post pictures later today!

Give the Certainty some time. It was a little cool here last week. And again, it works best on poa trivialis and not as well on poa annua.

After weed-hounding, I do not fill in the divots. I liken it to core aeration and shortly, the kbg will grow to fill in the spots. I will take a barren spot over a seeding poa annua any day!

Agreed. I sprayed some triv over at my parents' place and it took six days to show any effect at all. By day 12 it was definitely dying.

Some of the annua I sprayed a week ago is just tinged with yellow and starting to look straggly.

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This is poa trivialis about 2 weeks after Certainty. It is mainly yellow with some orange hues. It is as good as dead.

Today I sprayed 4 gallons of Certainty on POA annual and trivialis . I also pulled about 20-30 pounds of POA with a weedhoundÂÂBelow are pics from todays adventure. Death to POA!!!!!!

I do have a few questions on getting my lawn back to shape. IÂll address these with the pictures below.

Picture of last weekendÂs Cretainty Spraying the POA is just starting to turn brown after 7 days.
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Here is a picture of using Round Up (M1 shmosh technique with a glove wet with round up).
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This area is new groth from my fall seedingÂÂ.its 90 percent PAO. I sprayed it down today with Certainty.
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Here are some divots from pulling the POA with a weedhound. There is still some POA left in this area. Will this Divot heal properly with new KBG?
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Here is the POA from the Divots aboveÂÂ
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Some more POAÂ..
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This area is from the fall seeding alsoÂ..again 70-80 pecent POA. I also sprayed
this area today with CertaintyÂÂ..Will the KBG come back?
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Some POA hiding in KBG
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Some more POA hiding
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Death to POA (weedhound extraction)
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Is this area worth saving (2 pics)ÂÂ.Is there enough KBG to Come back after the
Certainty does it thing? IÂm thinking hard about replacing the sod in this area with new KBG from a local sod farm.
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Dead POA pile and very big divotÂÂ.IÂm going to fill this divot with a piece of sod.
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So when can I put down some more Pre M.....?

I wonder how much KBG I actualy have left in my lawn?

Happy POA hunting to ALL.........Death To POA!

I wonder how much KBG I actualy have left in my lawn?

A lot. Once the root systems set themselves up, it'll start to tiller. That may not be for a bit, though. Mine just started from an August renovation. Color's hard to read from an image, but that doesn't look like it's mature yet.

Here's my best:

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And my WORST:

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Even the worst is beginning to close up a bit.

You can put pre-M down again whenever the bag recommends reapplication. Poa sprouts in fall, so it's not much of a danger right now.

Do you think the area near the edging bricks (last couple of pictures) is salvageable or should I just use Round Up and re sod it this week end?

Salvageable. KBG spreads (and this stuff fairly quickly once it starts) that it'll fill in. If you want to sod that with bits cut from other areas, that would be fine and you'd get a lawn faster. If not, great.

Guess I just have to be patient and wait for the Certainty to do its death act. I'll try to set back and wait......

thanks for the help!

meleca,
i too ordered my kbg seed from pawne butte seed, sod-quality, too, and am having a major poa problem in some areas, where over half is poa and not the kbg. some people here have said that whats growing in is not poa but it looks just like the photos, and has the seedheads, and has the mid-ribbed blade, too. it stands out so much lighter than the rest of the grass. i planted new seed july 28th and a few weeks ago i realized alot of this grass wasnt the elite kbg i paid for but POA. did you ever call pawne butte about this ?? i am so upset about this.