I want a warm weather grass, easy maintenance, low watering (I have a well and no sprinkler system). What should I plant?

Bermuda grass is your best bet then particularly since you already have it. Bermuda is the most drought tolerant of any grass, and some varieties of Bermuda are more drought tolerant than others.

The best time to plant Bermuda grass is to wait until night time low temps are 60 and above for at least a week.

Since you live in Raleigh and have such bad cold winters with sub zero temps and heavy snow fall you will want a Bermuda grass that has excellent cold tolerance, early spring green up, and will be the last to go dormant. None are better than Yukon, Riviera, and Contessa of the seeded varieties.

Now with that said water is going to be an issue for you. To get Bermuda grass seed to germinate, or any other grass seed for that matter, you are going to have to keep the seedbed constantly moist. Than means watering 2 or more light waterings per day.

Another issue for you is maintenance. Bermuda requires mowing about twice a week and fertilized a few times per season to keep it decent looking. To get really low maintenance you would want Lazy ManÂs Grass aka Centipede. But Centipede takes a good deal of water. So you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

You other option would be a Zoysia in the warm season grass category. However your choices for seeded varieties are very limited, and Zoysia is tricky to germinate. But it grows very slowly, almost as good of drought resistance as Bermuda, and only needs fertilized twice a year to keep it healthy.

Before you go off and plant Bermuda do your homework, otherwise you risk loosing your money. A great place to buy Bermuda grass seed is Hancock

Lastly be warned, there will be folks on here shortly that will tell you to forget Bermuda grass in your area because it is only green 5 or 6 months per year. But you do not sound like someone who wants to overseed every fall and mow year round.

"Since you live in Raleigh and have such bad cold winters with sub zero temps and heavy snow"

Not sure if this is supposed to be joking, or you are mixed up where I live. Our winters are mild (compared to up north, but maybe not compared to Texas). Snow is rare, and I do not think I have seen the temp drop below 15, average winter lows are the 20 and 30's at the coldest. I am not worried about having to fertilze once a month or so, I just want something that does not require a lot of weeding, etc. I was hoping the bermuda will choke out the weeds, and can stand the heat of the summer without constant watering (once established). Fescue here just takes to much work to keep looking good.

Scott, T-Weed is joking with you. You could read some of his posts on this forum and you'll understand. Having said that, you're probably in Youngsville or Rolesville?

Auteck, thanks, I just stumbled upon this forum today as I was trying to see how to grow centipede grass (then learned it will not work here). His post sounded like me joking, but it is hard to tell on the internet peoples true intent. No biggie. I live outside of Youngsville and back in Iowa I would just throw out some Kentucky Blue grass (fesuce is a four letter word there) water it for a week, and boom, a great lawn. It is much different here.
When I first moved here I had a "professional" tell me I could choose between Fescue and be green except for the summer months, or have a warm weather grass and be green in the summer and brown in the winter. I would rather go with the green in summer and be drought tolerant.

My question is this then.
1. If I overseed everything with Bermuda, will it eventually squeeze out the fescue, if so, how long will it take?
2. How often do you fertilize bermuda?

Welcome onboard!

The Bermuda will not squeeze out the Fescue. The reason is that Fescue is best adapted here, and the weather is favorable, nothing will stand on its way. Then summer comes and the tables are turned. If we get into a bad drought, bermuda will always win, even if it turns brown due to lack of water. Fescue will die, then Bermuda will fill in. Sounds good, right? Well, not so fast. That can take years if not dacades here in Raleigh. Every summer is different, one can be hot and wet, another can be hot and dry, another can be mild and wet (this is average for Raleigh) and there you have it more or less.

One thing is for sure, winter will always be winter here. The temparatures will drop below freezing all the time during December, January, and February. So Bermuda or any warm season grass is going to turn brown no matter what you do to it. Fescue intead, if watered during periods of droughts, it will remain green and not die.

Anyway, if you don't like Fescue, you're not alone. I don't like it either, but I also don't like brown grass for 6 or 7 months. So I have a Kentucky Bluegrass/Perennial Ryegrass lawn.

I selected the best adapted Bluegrasses in the Raleigh area, then follow a medium fertilizer schedule, mowing once per week with a sharp blade, and water when need it only.

You can do the same as you did in Iowa, just got to pick up the right type of Kentucky Bluegrasses for this area.

Check out this website, it shows the top performing Bluegrasses for the Raleigh area:

Here is a link that might be useful: Kentucky Bluegrass Ratings for the Transition Zone (Raleigh included)

This is a picture of my lawn in late winter this year:

{{gwi:82717}}

Reminds you of back home?

My question is this then.
1. If I overseed everything with Bermuda, will it eventually squeeze out the fescue, if so, how long will it take?
2. How often do you fertilize bermuda?

A1. Yes if you practice proper Bermuda lawn care by keeping it cut short and fertilized properly.

A2. After it is about 50 to 75% greened up in the spring you apply your first application. Then apply again every 30 to 45 days during the growing season with the last application 30 days before your average first frost date.

FWIW, yes I was joking about the cold and snow. One of my brothers lives in Raleigh and I have been there in winter many times. On one of those visits it snowed a whole inch and sent waves of panic through the Triangle area shut the city down. All I was really trying to convey is if you choose to go with a Bermuda seed instead of sod, buy one with excellent cold tolerance so it will green up early and go dormant later than most of the common types. Some of the common types have poor cold weather performance like Arizona common, Princess, and Mohawk.

auteck, does KBG require annual overseeding here in NC? (ie will it fill in bare spots and help squeeze out weeds?

auteck, I take it your neighbor across the street has bermuda? (the nice brown one). I am fine with brown grass during the winter, that is what reminds me of home! (actually you usually cannot see the grass due to the snow!).
I have a large lot (1+ acre) but about 1/3 is wooded and there are large oaks that soak up all the water. The reason I am anti fescue is mainly dealing with the overseeding (and all of the watering that goes with it as due to the shape of my lawn (long and skinny) It is a PITA to water. KBG might be an option, I know in Iowa we did not overseed, and I could have seed looking better than sod in 2 years. Fescue in my neighborhood just looks like crap all summer except for those with elaborate watering systems.
Here is an idea - tell me if I am stupid. Use bermuda and perenial rye grass? Would that keep it green year round, while also squeezing out the weeds? Or would the bermuda take over and kill the rye?

Overseed the dormant bermuda in the late Fall with rye for a green lawn. In the Spring, may be around mid-March, you should use a herbicide to get rid of the rye so that your bermuda will have no competition for nutrients while it awakens from dormantcy.

For right now, use selective herbicides to get rid of the weeds and crabgrass (post-emergents). You might need to have a soil test--I'm guessing you might need to raise the pH with some lime. Just fertilize your bermuda with a slow release N2 fertilizer about every 30 days. Keep it cut short too. When the hot temps come you'll have a nice front lawn--be patient. Our weather conditions at the moment are making the Fescues and and KBGs lawns look great, but that will not be the case in a few more weeks.

scotttyd,

My neighbor across the street has Zoysia plagged with Fairy Ring and some winter damage. The worst problem is that you can just overseed the damage areas like you would Fescue or Bluegrass, you either buy new sod, or wait for lawn to repair itself over and that can take many months to couple of years.

You can use Bermuda and Perennial Ryegrass together, but you're going to have to overseed every fall to keep the lawn looking evenly green. Perennial Ryegrass (the right one for our climate) can persist in our area longer than most people might believe, and when that happens it can weaken the Bermuda. I don't really recommended, you can have more success with Bluegrass in your site than trying to grow two different types of grasses together.

As far as the weeds, yes, a dense turf can prevent many weeds from germinating, but even if you don't have a lawn with a dense canopy, weeds are VERY easy to control with chemicals (ie. Weed-B-Gon) A bottle good for 5,000 sf. of lawn will cost your $8.00.

What I suggest you do is to feed your current lawn in July with some fertilizer, then spray it with roundup (twice if you have to) in mid to late August, then seed with a Bluegrass blend in early to mid September (labor day is ideal)

The Elite Bluegrasses of today are very tough and can handle our weather quite well as a result - even drought.

Check out the NTEP ratings for the Transition zone on the link below, Raleigh (NC1 on the chart) rates higher than Virginia, Maryland, and many other sites around the country growing Bluegrass.

Here is a link that might be useful: NTEP Bluegrass Rating for the Transition Zone (Raleigh is NC1)

BTW, crabgrass has not germinated yet, so don't have any right now. It should germinate within the next week or 2, so get some Dimension Pre-emergent before is too late.

Find your local John Deere/Lesco dealer and get it there.

I wanted to make one last recommendation, if you want a warm season grass with little to no efford, then concider Prestige Buffalo grass.

You can get seeds or you can get plugs, click on the link for more info:

In the interim, here a picture of Legacy Buffalograss (left) and Tall Fescue (love the dull seagreen color)

{{gwi:88420}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Legacy Buffalograss

I was going to object to buffalo grass that far east, but the map in the link says Prestige works in the east so maybe it's okay. I would have thought buffalo grass would do poorly with the amount of rainfall and probably more acidic soil, but the growers may have been working on getting it more adapted to other parts of the country.

I may be mistaken, but I think prestige is only available in plugs or sod. That's actually a good thing because it means that the grass won't produce pollen or seeds. Buffalo grass pollen can cause problems for people with allergies and the seeds are large (about the size of small peas) and have a burr-like coating, so it's not very pleasant for walking if there are a lot of seeds.

That's correct, Prestige is only available in plug form (at least here in NC) The local sod farms might grow it soon I hope...

One of my neighbors seeded with Buffalo grass (he doesn't know which one he used) 5 years ago, below are the pictures:

{{gwi:88421}}

{{gwi:88422}}

Thanks for the pictures, Auteck. I guess buffalo grass does better in the east than I was led to believe.

What's your annual average precipitation? Do you know how high your neighbor mows? Are the brown patches because it's still coming out of dormancy?

Annual precipitation here is between 45 to 50 inches of rain, and 10 inches of snow (I think that translate into 2.5 inches of rain?)

I don't know how high the mower is set at, but it looked around 3 inches to me when I was there.

Those pictures where taken on June 29th, 2008. Those patches are probably weeds dying... This guy does not take good care of that grass at all.

Based on my observations, Buffalograss greens up about the same time as Bermuda, which is faster than Zoysia.

Another thing, his lawn is not in full sun. It probably gets about 8 hours of direct sunlight.

I'm sure it can look a lot better with more maintenance. What you are seeing there is grass left to mother nature. He does not water, fertilize, or use any weed control; and mows once a month.

I didn't realize buffalo grass could do that well with that much water. I'll have to remember that for future reference.

If he ignores it as much as that, buffalo grass is probably the best thing he could use. It would probably only need to be watered once a month or so here in the desert and it does okay with no fertilizer, although would benefit from a little (more than a little and it'll benefit other plants trying to invade). It's relatively slow growing and doesn't get all that tall, so once a month probably works fine.

bpgreen said:
I didn't realize buffalo grass could do that well with that much water.

Sure it will respond well to water like any plant. Problem is Buffalo grass is very easily taken over by any other type of graas or weed. That is why it is reccomended only for very low fertile conditions and dry areas. Buffalo grass needs very litle water and food to thrive. If the area gets plenty of rain and even modest fertility levels Bermuda or anything will take over.

Tweed, how's Buffalo going to be overtake by Bermuda if there's none around it per say? The same can be said about any other grass for that matter. Heck, bermuda gets invaded by Bentgrass during the Fall, Winter, and Spring at the Golf course.

As far as weeds, any Bermuda lawn with the same care my neighbor gives his Buffalo grass will get invaded by weeds just the same or more.

Bermuda without fertilizer during the growing season does not look like much. In fact, I think it is remarkable that Buffalo grass looks as good as it does on those picture with such little care, you can't say that about Bermuda or Zoysia.

Another benefit of Buffalo over Bermuda and Zoysia is that it only spreads by Stolons. So it's relatively easy to keep it from invading flower beds with simple edging borders.

It's also as cold tolerant if not more than Zoysia. I would suspect little to no winter damage here in Raleigh with the proper care.

The OP wrote: "I want a warm weather grass, easy maintenance, low watering (I have a well and no sprinkler system). What should I plant?"

That's Buffalo grass and not Bermuda.

> "Annual precipitation here is between 45 to 50 inches of rain"

I found a cool link, see below. Your rain looks spread out evenly too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress

Gary, good link. However, it looks good on paper, but it doesn't always translate like that in reality.

In one week we can get 2 to 3 inches of rain, then no rain for the next 2 to 3 weeks. It's more evident during the summer months as I have yet to water my lawn in the Fall, Winter or Spring (maybe late spring)

Have you driving around residential neighborhoods in Naperville? I've seen some of the nicest lawns there...

The hotel where I normally stay when I go to Chicago is located in Oakbrook Terrace. It's a Hilton Garden just off the expressway. Beautiful Kentucky Bluegrass all around the property with Blue Spruces everywhere... Loved it. My next house will have more spruces.

TW--Thanks for the info. I haven't been reading as much about buffalo grass since I decided it would be dormant too long for my tastes so much of what I know is based on what I read several years ago and is probably faulty.

If I understand you correctly, buffalo grass doesn't necessarily suffer with better conditions, it's just that other plants are able to thrive and they can outcompete the buffalo grass. So it isn't so much that it requires the poor conditions as that it can withstand poor conditions that would kill many other grasses. Is that about right?

Auteck asked:
Tweed, how's Buffalo going to be overtake by Bermuda if there's none around it per say?

The same as any other invasive weed or grass. By wind, birds, water, etcÂ

The point I am trying to make is when buffalo grass is planted in high rainfall areas or when it is irrigated, bermudagrass, or any other invasive weed and/or grasses tend to invade a stand of buffalo grass and take over. Buffalo grass is best adapted to low rainfall areas (15 to 30 inches annually) with clay soils, or areas that receive thorough, but very infrequent irrigation, low fertility clay soils, with light traffic volume, and little to no mowing.

So what I am saying is buffalo grass should not be used where rainfall is fairly plentiful, and under intensive management (mowing, fertilizing, watering, or high traffic volume); otherwise more aggressive grasses and weeds tend to replace buffalo grass.

Weed, what you're describing is the worst case scenrio for Buffalo grass, that's very well undertood and can be apply to any grass growing in the Transition zone (nothing new)

I think the pictures of Buffalo grass from my neighbor are a true statement of the grass avility to adapt and perform in high rainfall areas AND with basically zero maintenance other than mowing once per month. I don't see too many weeds or any other invasive grass taking over that Buffalo grass. I'm sure in my hands it will look 10 times better.

BP, what's your zip code?

"BP, what's your zip code? "

But I think that zip code encompasses at least two and maybe even three USDA hardiness zones (and those are misleading).

Conditions here are pretty unique. Summers can get very hot here. Winters are generally mild in terms of low temperatures. We get lots of snow, but temperatures rarely drop below 20 F. However, we can have snow in October and in May. Nearly all of our precipitation is snow. We get about 1-2 inches of rain (total) from June through August.

KBG is the grass that is used most often here, but it requires a lot of water to stay green. I'm replacing my KBG lawn with cool season low water grasses.

You may not mind brown grass all winter and fall and spring but what you're not being told is bermuda is only green when it is fed (fertilized) monthly during the growing season and mowed frequently to keep up with the rapid growth rate that will ensue when fertilized freqently.

Otherwise it will be more brown and look worse than your neighbors fescue. You won't need to overseed fescue if it is maintained properly by the way. Mostly with watering during times of stress, not mowing too low and not fertilizing during times of stress. Bermuda needs to be watered at these times too. Someone keeps saying bermuda is the most drought tolerant meaning the grass survives but the leaves wilt, turn brown and die leaving you with brown grass. Sure, it will come back but if having a lawn that looks like crap is what you have a problem with, you should know about that.

You mentioned having an active lifestyle...
If you don't want to maintain a lawn or hire someone to do it for you, your grass will look bad. If you don't constantly edge and pull the bermuda runners out of your landscaping then you will have no more landscaping. There is no miracle grass. It's as simple as that. Maybe that artificial grass carpet stuff.

Auteck said:
Weed, what you're describing is the worst case scenrio for Buffalo grass

You can say whatever you want, I do not care anymore, and not going to argue with you. What I stated is common knowledge that anyone can look up for themselves on Google and decide for themselves. Areas you speak of are not even considered areas where BG should be considered because they recieve too much rain.

TWeed, you couln't be more wrong. The map below clearly shows Buffalo grass adaptation and the pictures I posted prove that it grows here whether you want to admit it or not.

{{gwi:88423}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Buffalograss Adaptation

Hum you want to believe a vendor trying to sell you something?

The 2 pictures I posted on this thread about Buffalo are more than enough prove the grass can grow here.

Should I believe a sod farmer in Texas recommending bermuda grass for NC instead?

Okay Auteck let's use your analogy and your own links. Why is it Todd Valley Farms only grows the sod in Texas, Colorado, Nebraska, and Nevada? Inquiring minds want to know.

Todd Valley Farms

This entire thread has me buffaloed if you ask me, of course no one has. This grass thing is so confusing with climate zones, avg rainfall and other such tenets set in stone its a wonder any grass will grow any where. I read where Bermuda grass isn't good in Georgia, pray tell? But-- the one that has me really scratching my head is Centipede. The Op states, "From what I read, centipede will not grow in my soil.". This may be very well true I dont know the Raleigh area but I do know this. It does very well in Elizabeth City N.C. I also know in my Middle Georgia area it is King-- the absolute perfect grass. Despite what I've read here, it does well in shade and does handles drought well. Before you discount it I would make darn sure it doesn't grow in your area because if it will grow there it fits your bill for exactly what you are looking for. One other thought, It is a very slow starter from seed. Many people try to start with seed and fail. It takes most of those who are successful a lot of work and several years before it fills in.

TRPLAY donÂt let all the conflicting advice confuse or frustrate you. The first place to start for a sure bet is looking at your local area sod farms and see what varieties they offer. Like any good business they donÂt stock or sell something that wonÂt work.

Next call a few of them and talk to them. The good one will walk you through your choices by asking you a series of questions. By the time they get all the answers they will have narrowed down your choices to one or two varieties that will work best for you and your life style.

Some like myself, if they donÂt think you are capable of growing a lawn from either your conditions (soil shade, water, or whatever), or just or do not think you have the motovation to grow grass will either tell you upfront or refer you to one of his competitors because he/she knows they will have you come back filing a claim or wanting their money back.

Don't get me wrong I love reading the posts with different view points. First, I realize all of you guys know more than I'll ever know but its fun watching on the sidelines as two guys debate shop. In the end its the way the yard looks that really matters. Being a Bermuda Boy I especially enjoy readings from the Bermuda haters explaining why this is a bad grass. But now I'm starting to feel for the Centipede Caretakers as their grass gets peed on. Check out this non-shade Centipede below.

Centiweed? :>) Might go read up on it a little bit, it is pretty much a niche grass for lazy folks with lots of rain, sandy soils, and acidic soil hot enough to burn your feet. :>)

yep you might do a little research. It is called the lazy mans grass. It is also called cemetery grass around here. The name comes from its introduction into the area in the early 1900's when cemeteries were all red clay. They were quickly converted to Centipede. Today you will still find most our Cemeteries in Centipede because they choke out weeds, dont require irrigation or fertilizer and can go long periods without cutting.

Centipede is OK. Our county extention recommends it but we had a cold winter (dipped into the single digits once or twice) and a lot of it died around here. Looks a lot like st. augustine to me. Very coarse bladed appearance. Light green color.

You can green it up a little with iron. Actully looks quite dark in that photo.