Couple things first jangell. A. I can't get the thread you are referencing to work. GW says "opps!" B. Spend a little time researching "poa annua" Studies have shown that it is mainly a winter annual that germinates in fall, once soil temps drop below 70 degrees. However, they are also finding strains that germinate in spring, again when soil temps rise into the 50's. So really, it is a two headed monster. There is a lot of info out there to be read, this is just an example - http://www.grounds-mag.com/mag/grounds_maintenance_taking_control/ To answer your questions: >"1. Dimension - Can this be purchased in the western part of the US (NorthWet - Seattle to be exact) What brand name is it sold under? " I believe so, why not? Look on the labels of the bags for the herbicide named Dithiopyr. Scotts does NOT use Dithiopr, although house brand names at Lowes and Home Depot do. >"2. Granular vs liquid" It is available either way. Home owners will use granular because of cost. Pros will buy liquid which comes in LARGE quantities. We're talking $700 for the smallest container. >"3. Aerating - Before or after putting down dimensions" (sigh) ...It is my belief that weed problems, such as a poa annua infestation are caused by core aerating. When you read my link above or research further, you will learn that poa annua seeds remain viable under the soils surface for YEARS. Aerating brings this hidden soil with the viable seeds to the surface - then they receive the moisture, warmth and sunlight to germinate. I believe in "let a sleeping dog lie" and not aerate ... not disturbing the soil at all. So to answer your question - if you feel you really must aerate, then aerate first and then after irrigating the core plugs, apply the pre-emergent herbicide. Hopefully whatever junk you brought up to the surface will not germinate because of the herbicide ... maybe. I personally refuse to aerate because this risk out weighes the rewards. >"I want to desperately control the spread of the POA and can use some help." Do a split application then. Concentrate on poa annua's germination time frames. Apply early spring (disregarding crab grass germination time frame, ie drop earlier) and then again in late summer, just before it begins to cool down. FWIW, out on the east coast last year, they had a VERY cool and wet June, and poa annua germinated then. For this reason some are planning three applications this year. It's all about the soil temps. I hope this helps. -Gary

I'm very annoyed by the fact that when the heat of the summer arrives, I will have bare/brown spots left by the POA annua while at the same time, I will be unable to seed because of the heat. Soooo... I'm going to conduct an "experiment" (I probably subconsciously recall this experiment from 3rd grade science class). I started some pans of sod (the disposable aluminum pans used for cooking); poked some drainage holes in them and filled them with soil/organic material and spread seed. I now have one pan that is completely filled in with thick grass that I am using on other areas in need of some patching where seed did not initially take (I cut to size and fill in). Thus far, there is one or two small weeds in the pan of turf, but no POA (give it time, I'm sure). I will time the others so they are ready for laying just about the time the POA dies off. Would it be easier to just buy sod when I need it? Probably, but there's just something about growing your own and having it on hand (and matching the existing turf) when you need it during the POA war. And, if it works (probably a big "if"), I won't be so miffed about not being able to overseed in the fall when the pre-emergent goes down. Obviously, if your yard is large with a sizable infestation of POA, going this route would be an exercise in futility. But, if you will only be left with a few bare spots come summer, it might be worth a try.

Well, I spent all last night pulling it up anyway. That part of the yard is shaded, but it faces south. The tree is on the south end and has shade over it, but in early morning it gets a fair amount of morning sun and in late afternoon gets some afternoon sun. Not a lot, but some. The weed was growing on the eastern most edge of this lawn, where it gets the most sun. Either way, it's gone now. For now. The house faces south. This is the front lawn I'm describing, broken apart by a concrete path. To the west of the path is a huge tree in the middle of the area (don't ask me what kind...). Further west on the lot is a larg side lot filled with mature trees forming a full canopy (partly due to lack of maintenance) so TONS of shade. It also borders the house so doesn't get much morning sun. At the moment it's still weeds, but if the front takes, we'll start planting shadow turf there too. To the east of the path is a similar sized section that has only a smallish crepe myrtle and very little shade. It's a corner lot, so it gets full morning and afternoon sun and a fair amount of setting sun. That's where the Bermuda is - at least some of it. And also a TON of weeds. Not the crabgrass like stuff, more like clover leaf (but not that). The plan to till was to get rid of all that. I spent a good 7 hours last weekend pulling up weeds from one small stretch and my hands and back are killing me. How would you recommend we remove what is basically a carpet of weeds? There is some bermuda mixed in, but for most of the area, it's 90% weeds. I'm sore :( Here's a picture of the soon to be bermuda lawn that's full of weeds, looking north from the street: http://cheriseandfredo.blogspot.com/2007/09/and-after.html There's lots of overgrowth of bushes and whatnot that need trimming too. Do you have a recommendation for a tree trimmer that won't want to go in and tear out all our trees? We REALLY like the shade (have a/c but don't use it often). We like the park-like look, but it's bordering on overgrown forest.... Here's a fairly good picture of our side yard http://cheriseandfredo.blogspot.com/2006/02/autumn-in-texas.html We're in Lavaca. Not too close to the River, but we can walk to it! Oh, about the shadow turf, so it'll pop up elsewhere, not just expanding from the main plugs? I have a few sprouts that look like it, but they're kind of isolated and I'm not sure if that's really MY grass or some weed invading...It is expanding. Slowly, but I think I can see it. It's good to know it took a little while before really hitting its stride. I was worried I'd overwatered it. I am about to go buy some more plugs I think.

better picture of it, any thoughts? direct: http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t418/JackLantern31/grassid1.jpg and http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t418/JackLantern31/grassid2.jpg