Oh, need to add a bit more - how often is 'deeply but infrequently' and how well does that work when you're trying to get plugs to fill in?

Has anyone used Texas Turf? Any tips on how to help it along and keep out the weeds? We spend everyday pulling all the other weeds. It was very sunny when it was planted, but then the leaves came back on the tree above it and now it's a fairly shady area (tho South/SW facing so some sun does poke through, and it gets the morning sun from the east)

Here is your picture...
{{gwi:96788}}

I don't know the name of the plant but it is not crabgrass. Crabgrass is a tight knit plant.

By "Texas Turf" do you mean the Tech Turf buffalo grass from the Turffalo company near Lubbock? If so, you will have to come up with another alternative. Their grass will not grow anywhere under any shade. It needs 8 hours of FULL sun. You won't have to worry about watering Tech Turf because it will never spread under the tree.

If you water regularly and mow at the mower's highest setting, the St Augustine will fill in everywhere under the tree and can fill in everywhere in the full sun. Another grass sold by the Turffalo company is Shadow Turf. It is an aggressive, fine bladed, zoysia that grows in unbelievable shade as well as full sun. Diamond is another zoysia with similar characteristics.

Watering infrequently means you water no more than once a week in the summer heat. In the winter you can back off to monthly. Now having said that, give my more of an idea about where you live and maybe I'll modify that statement. Deeply means you water for the entire week, all at one time. If you want to water one inch per week, don't water 1/7 inches every day. That is how you germinate weed seeds. I water once every 2 weeks currently and I water for 1-3 hours per zone depending on rain.

That's funny, you're *in* San Antonio, just like dchall.
As far as I can tell from the blog you've planted the Shadow Turf plugs. They sure do look lonely out there amongst all that dirt.
I don't know, that plant looks like a young hairy (or large) crabgrass (Digitaria sanguinalis) to me. I'd pull it out. You'll be fighting weeds on all that exposed dirt for years.
Wow, you've really got a lot on your plate with that house and everything.

Thanks for the info. Yes, I'm in San Antonio. It's not Turfalo, it's shadow turf, made especially for full shade with some sunlight (It gets a lot of morning sun and late afternoon sun). I got it at Fanick's Garden Center.

I might buy another flat to help it out a bit, it was just so expensive I was hesitant to buy it if the experiment wasn't going to work.

We really don't *want* to plant St Augustine, as this is a drought prone area and I don't want to add anything that's going to require excess water. We already have it in some places and will leave it, but I'm not going to add more. We considered zoysia, but my husband really doesn't like the look of it, he prefers the 'softness' of a Bermuda-like grass. The shadow turf is supposed to be ideal: shade and drought tolerant.

Thanks for posting the picture. I couldn't figure out how to do it quickly.

Can anyone make a positive identification on this weed? I have the same thing in my common bermuda lawn, and like to know how to get rid of it. So far Spectracide and Weed B Gone with crabgrass control doesn't work for it. Therefore I don't think it is crabgrass.

Dallisgrass?
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/P/W-GM-PDIL-OK.010.html

That is the finest breed of 100% Crabgrass.

When growing among thick, healthy turf, crabgrass is more of a tight knit plant. But out in the open or in plant beds it grows more loosely and sends out runners.

Glad to hear I have such healthy weeds ;). Guess I'll pull them.

dchall - I noticed from a search that you planted the Shadow Turf last year. How shaded is the area? How did it hold up?
How would you compare it to zoysia in terms of drought and shade tolerance?

I think part of my problem is that I've been overwatering. I knew I had to water a lot at first but didn't realize I need to cut back. I figured since it wasn't really moving much it hadn't taken yet and kept watering. Just read that too much water once established can kill it. So I'll cut back now.

I'll also buy another flat of plugs. I probably should have bit the bullet and planted more to start, just wasn't sure it would work. part of the problem with the tree is not only the shade but the extensive root system.

What grass is best for full sun here? We're tilling the other side of the front lawn, which gets full sun (on a corner, one medium crepe myrtle, gets east, south, west sun). I think what's there now is some bermuda and a bunch of weeds. My ideal is to not water excessively. I realize some watering may be necessary, but I don't want to plant a water desperate grass.

skoot_cat's right,
It's crab grass alright, and grows loosely when it's alone. I use Weed B Gone from concentrate, and I mix a stronger than suggested mix from the labels instructions. I believe the instructions call for 2 tbp per but I use 3 and it completely burns out crabgrass within my Kentucky blues. When it browns, then you pull it up easily. I can't stand crabgrass, and I've been battling it going on my second season in this new home. It's on the run now, and victory will be mine!

Here is a link that might be useful: The Little Green Apple.com-A Place for Lawn & Garden Enthusiasts

Yup,that is smooth crabgrass. Seen plenty of that weed.

Look familiar?

{{gwi:96789}}

firstandgoal - that looks like it.

Just out of curiousity, what's it look like when it's fully grown in?
What makes a grass a weed? (I had seen Bermuda referred to as a weed)

In the fall, make sure you get all your crabgrass pulled up before it goes to seed. This will help get it under control in future years. I always apply a pre-emergent in the spring, which is much more effective than trying to get rid of it once it starts growing.

Deanna

"Just out of curiousity, what's it look like when it's fully grown in?
What makes a grass a weed? (I had seen Bermuda referred to as a weed)"

It would look like..well..crabgrass. It would be tightly knit, pretty...yes, pretty ugly. Not a pretty sight. It is a weed along with nutgrass, goosegrass, barnyardgrass, quackgrass, orchardgrass, etc, in both cool and warm season turfgrass. Weeds ruin that uniform look of whatever turfgrass you are growing, and will rob water and nutrients that your turfgrass needs to stay healthy.

A weed is simply a plant growing where it is not wanted or desired. I would consider zoysia, st aug, kbg, fescue, etc, a weed growing in my bermuda turf even though those grasses make some extremely nice looking, head turning, lawns. The same can be said of bermuda growing in any of those grasses. St Aug would be considered a weed growing in zoysia grass and vice-versa.

As a matter of fact, the "Shadow Turf" is actually Zoysia grass not sure which species but probably Z. Matrella (aka manila grass). I would spray all existing grass and weeds with roundup, wait a few days, and then mow real short and spray again. Make sure that bermuda is dead! I would be more inclined to rake most of the the dead grass up, rather than till the soil. If I was going to till, I would only go maybe 2 or 3".

You need to apply Dimension (Dithiopyr) pre-emergent after planting your plugs to keep any more crabgrass and other weeds from sprouting.

Ok, so I pulled out all the crab grass down to the roots as much as possible (there are a lot of roots of all weeds down there, I've dug up a lot). There's no bermuda in this section - it's too shady.

The area we're tilling is opposite this, broken apart by a sidewalk and we're going to plant Bermuda there, there's already some on the outside and we like it. Which brings another question - the shadow turf plugs look nothing like zoysia, which is why we got it. We had considered zoysia, but as DH hates St. Augustine, and zoysia basically looks like that, we looked for an alternative. He prefers Bermuda, and the Shadow Turf plugs at least looked more like Bermuda so would work well from a visual perspective. They are spreading now, and definitely have the 'thin' blade look.

As it is our yard will not be uniform. We have areas of intense shade and areas of intense sun. For some reason there's a patch of St. Augustine that grows well even tho I have NEVER watered it. I decided to leave it, as it is near the area where the city planted St. Augustine on the outside of the fence. I'm not big on an overly manicured lawn. I do want it to look nice, but I kind of like a natural look, just without all the mud that comes with weeds....

If crabgrass is growing in that shady spot, then there is a chance that the Shadow Turf (zoysia) will grow there also. The area must have some sun for crabgrass to be growing there. That species of zoysia does have a fine leaf texture and is more shade tolerant than bermuda, but it will be slow to fill in. Spread a starter fertilizer or an organic lawn fertilizer on those plugs.

Apply Dimension pre-emergent everywhere, for any late germinating weed seeds, EXCEPT where you plan on putting down bermuda seed. You may have to put more Dimension down in the fall and again early spring.

In the intense shade areas of your yard, you will have to plant shade tolerant annuals and prennials if the grass fails to grow there.

With the right timing of pre-emergents and the use of the right post emergent weed killers, you could be growing three different types of grass!

Just keep'em seperated!

You said your weed was in the shade, right? If it's in the shade, then it is not crabgrass. I have the same thing. You do need to pull it out, but it is not a nightmare like some weeds.

I hope you have not started tilling yet. You don't need to till and tilling will result in a very lumpy lawn in 3 years.

If your house is an 1890s redo, I suspect you live just south of downtown near the river. Any neighborhood that old is going to have lots of trees. With trees bermuda is going to be a problem unless you have a wide open southern exposure. The Shadow Turf will work much better for you.

I got my Shadow Turf from Fanick's just a year ago. I have pictures that I can post showing the progress along the way. I would post them now but my photo share server seems to be off line. Shadow Turf will grow in full sun and in fairly deep shade. It is a cultivar of Manilagrass, a fine bladed form of zoysia. It seems to be equal in aggressiveness with bermuda. I have the two side by side. The Shadow Turf seems to be winning, but this is only the end of the first year. Many people consider bermuda to be a weed due to its aggressiveness. Shadow Turf is equally aggressive and is not easily contained. It needs a very solid border to keep it from intruding on the neighbors or your own garden. The good thing is it looks like a pretty good grass - good color (all year in San Antonio), and fine bladed. Now if it is resistant to disease, it's good. While it will wear a path easily when walked on, it will recover its height when you stop walking on it.

I planted the Shadow Turf right before the rains came last May. The 1-inch plugs sat seemingly dormant until the end of July. Then, all of a sudden, there was Shadow Turf popping up everywhere. All that time it was spreading underground and suddenly popped out of the ground. Since then it spread quickly and grew up tall. Mine is in an area that can't really be mowed with a mower and I have decided to see what happens when left completely unmowed. All I do is trim it so we can see the bricks. I'll explain it when the pictures come back.

dchall--- You could be right, but I still think that is smooth crabgrass. I've seen it grow in shade with some morning sun. A very opportunistic weed that can adapt to different growing conditions.

I've posted a link below of some look alikes, but see what you think. Like I said though, you could be right.

Take care, my friend.

Here is a link that might be useful: Texas Panicum and Broadleaf Signalgrass

Well, I spent all last night pulling it up anyway. That part of the yard is shaded, but it faces south. The tree is on the south end and has shade over it, but in early morning it gets a fair amount of morning sun and in late afternoon gets some afternoon sun. Not a lot, but some. The weed was growing on the eastern most edge of this lawn, where it gets the most sun.

Either way, it's gone now. For now.

The house faces south. This is the front lawn I'm describing, broken apart by a concrete path. To the west of the path is a huge tree in the middle of the area (don't ask me what kind...). Further west on the lot is a larg side lot filled with mature trees forming a full canopy (partly due to lack of maintenance) so TONS of shade. It also borders the house so doesn't get much morning sun. At the moment it's still weeds, but if the front takes, we'll start planting shadow turf there too.

To the east of the path is a similar sized section that has only a smallish crepe myrtle and very little shade. It's a corner lot, so it gets full morning and afternoon sun and a fair amount of setting sun. That's where the Bermuda is - at least some of it. And also a TON of weeds. Not the crabgrass like stuff, more like clover leaf (but not that). The plan to till was to get rid of all that. I spent a good 7 hours last weekend pulling up weeds from one small stretch and my hands and back are killing me. How would you recommend we remove what is basically a carpet of weeds? There is some bermuda mixed in, but for most of the area, it's 90% weeds. I'm sore :(

Here's a picture of the soon to be bermuda lawn that's full of weeds, looking north from the street:
http://cheriseandfredo.blogspot.com/2007/09/and-after.html There's lots of overgrowth of bushes and whatnot that need trimming too. Do you have a recommendation for a tree trimmer that won't want to go in and tear out all our trees? We REALLY like the shade (have a/c but don't use it often). We like the park-like look, but it's bordering on overgrown forest....

Here's a fairly good picture of our side yard http://cheriseandfredo.blogspot.com/2006/02/autumn-in-texas.html

We're in Lavaca. Not too close to the River, but we can walk to it!

Oh, about the shadow turf, so it'll pop up elsewhere, not just expanding from the main plugs? I have a few sprouts that look like it, but they're kind of isolated and I'm not sure if that's really MY grass or some weed invading...It is expanding. Slowly, but I think I can see it. It's good to know it took a little while before really hitting its stride. I was worried I'd overwatered it. I am about to go buy some more plugs I think.

"We considered zoysia, but my husband really doesn't like the look of it, he prefers the 'softness' of a Bermuda-like grass"

Shadow turf is Zoysia.

texas-weed, well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. The zoysia we saw was closer to St. Augustine - is it not really like that? Shadow Turf is definitely more like bermuda.

dchall says it's a fine bladed zoysia, so that's ok with us. We just didn't want the St. Augustine look.

YOu can see it at http://germinateweedseeds.blogspot.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Germinate Seeds