One More Question...

8 years ago

Jades...Maybe this question should be posted on C&S's, but there are quite a few on HP's who grow Jades.

C. ovata..regular Jade...Several branches were growing in one pot. Lifting was impossible.

Yesterday, I tipped Jade over, unpotted, then removed two large divisions.

Another Crassula, somehow grew on the side pocket of a Strawberry Jar. It should have been removed years ago, but like usual, I procrastinated..Using a spade, I removed the Crassula, breaking several roots. Unintenionally.

I'd like to place both Crassulas in a Bonsai-pot.

Does anyone now how it's done? Do roots need clipping..what about foliage?


Jade before unpotting


Strawberry Jar


I really need an answer, yesterday..Thanks, Toni

Comments (60)

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Great example, Greg! Nice tutorial!
    Man, that original soil was dusty and dry!!! The new pot works well with the tricolor Jade.


  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    That pot does work well with that tricolor Jade! What beautiful color the Jade has!


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  • Loveplants2 8b Virginia Beach, Virginia
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hello Everyone!!

    Toni.. sounds like fun getting those Jades ready for small pots. You will do a great job with them. Please post pics when they are finished.

    SS.. Love your little container and i agree, the color looks wonderful along with the lovely hues on your Jade.



  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    SS...ROFL. My Jade? How on earth did you add my Jade to a pot? lolol.
    I haven't any idea how to use Photo Shop..not sure it's even on my puter.
    We were talking apples and

    However you managed, you did a great job.
    But, I like your variegated much more than my green.

    SS, the reason I removed foliage was to grow Jade as a standard..I want one trunk, not the V-shaped. That's the reason I asked how/if V-shaped can be cut to a solo trunk. Also, I read, 'here on GW,' leaves are fuller/larger after trimming.

    How tall was your variegated Jade before potting? You didn't remove foliage or roots? Well, aside from a little root trimming???

    SS..Wow! What a difference between before and after pics. I love the latter.

    Are you suggesting I spray leaves instead of watering?

    Final Results, plant and pot, is perfect. Container and leaf color go well together.

    JoJo and Josh..I certainly agree.

    Laura. Lately, snapping pics indoors comes out's way too cold to take Jades outside..I'll give it a try....Though there's not much to

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Pics are snapped..Finally...

    Even after trimming roots, and beleive me I cut them as much as possible, they wouldn't fit in 4" pots.

    Here's the results.

    If anyone has any ideas, please let me know..Thanks.





  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    I don't think I can see what's in your mind's eye for these plants... and don't think I've seen this technique before. That's a drastic way to get a bunch of new branches, I think...? Hope it works! I'd have a hard time removing the leaves on mine right now, they're so colorful and pretty.

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    purpleinopp~ This is a very common technique for this plant. :-) Yes drastic, but the end result is worth it. A lot of growers strip them and prune hard for a thicker growth later.
    And many have a hard time with it as you do. ;-)

    I haven't done it yet, but plan too in the spring when a plant of mine has gained strength.

    I like the shape of the second one.


  • aseedisapromise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi Toni,

    I think the jades look okay. I wouldn't water them for a while. You asked about whether to water them, and I say no, not until you see new growth. Maybe mist them if you feel you have to do something, but no watering.

    I had a jade that I trimmed and I tossed the cuttings on the ground under a balcony porch which never gets any rain. They landed upside down as they were top heavy, and I promptly forgot them. Darned if the things didn't root into the dry, clay soil there and start growing butt up all etoliated and ugly. They were the funniest things I had ever seen, but testament to their "Universal Will To Become" as Vonnegut called it. So no water is necessary.

    I am curious what you are trying to achieve also with the "one-stem" effect. Probably they will sprout new growth all along the stem. On a standard? Like a lollipop tree? I think jades will fight to be different than this, so you will have to be rubbing off new growth all along the bottom all the time. Maybe you could post a link to a post about the bonsai-type jades you mentioned so we can get a better idea?

  • silentsurfer
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    wow you really wacked em dint ya? lol

    Toni, just real quick,,,
    i think i see what your after here now,,
    you didnt want that 'V' so low in the composition. i agree,
    so, yea, if its not part of your vision, chop it (you did),, did you try and root it?
    C. will (should) resort its energy onto the remaining portions of plant.
    ..from what ive been reading over @ C+S JoJo's basically right regarding defoliation,,

    although too, when repotting (including normal, or 'light' rootpruning) foilage removal as an 'practice' of equalizing, or 'compensatory' measure, is now disregarded under normal circumstances....something about leaving (some, or all) foilage to continue photosynthesis,, allowing normal die-back for anything the roots arent capable of sustaining, rather than trying to pre-determine that point ones-self....
    Keep in mind we brought C. indoors recently, under 'pale skies', repotted, root-pruned AND defoliated,,, all at once. Toni aint-skeered! hehe
    ,,,im guessing you already did ya homework tho :)

    Looks Good, but i'd suggest Very Careful watering as well.
    and yes i meant mist the SOIL,,,
    i think i would wait for signs of new growth, maybe mist (the SOIL) every 7-10 days,,?
    i sometimes use a regular spray bottle, and just 'spritz' the soil, OR
    i have an old Gatorade bottle i punched holes in the lid, to kinda 'drip' water out onto the soil,, this allows me better regulate my watering,,,
    C.'s humidity needs are negligable.

    I kinda underestimated their Size,,
    looks like a pretty 'chunky' mix,,
    I'd let em feel some warmth, but no direct Sun, just let em realize theres light 'nearby',,, maybe even just 'partially' immerse the pot very quickly in water and let it know theres some moisure down in the bottom of the pot,, let them 'smell' it down there, but know its just outta reach, ya know,,,,

    Im very curious how this will play out,, doing All that work at once,,,
    I think you'll be fine, and im hoping by this time next year, your gonna 3 very nicely potted Jades!
    you'll keep us posted right!? :)

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    This is fascinating! I still don't understand what this is supposed to make the plant "DO." What am I missing? School me please!?

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Morning All,

    Purple. I'll do you one better..Last spring, I chopped down two F. Rubber Trees attempting to get the Stardard look.
    By the end of summer, several branches/leaves grew back, but before hauling plants in the side-branches were once again removed. The main trunks are held w/tall stakes.

    JoJo thank you.

    Yep, drastic trimming, but worth the end results..IF they

    You're smart..waiting till spring.


    Ooops, the day after potting I added a little water..
    However, soil is dry.

    I believe, Jades and other plants have a will to live. I planted one Callisia on the side of the house, and sure enough, two others grew..different locations..wonder how that happened??
    Also, a few Tradescanta/Purple Heart stems must have broke, dropped, and was swept away by the wind..Two rooted in the ground, w/o water except for rain, this summer.
    It's amazing how plants work, are strong enough to thrive..
    But, this would never happen here during winter.

    You got it..I want my Crassulas to resemble lollipop trees. lol. But, the V has me stumped.
    In comparison to lollypops, it's as if two lollypops are glued together at the bottom of their sticks. I want a solo lollypop.

    I guess once new growth forms, it has to be removed ASAP. Similar to growing grafted citrus. If growth resumes on rootstock, it must be plucked immediatly, otherwise, 1. root stock foliage will take over, kill the citrus, and 2. the longer root stock foliage grows, once removed, the bigger the scar.

    ASeed. Originally, I saw a tree-like/Standard Jade bonsai at the conservatory. It was older, mature...'And visions of Jade bonsais danced through my head.' :)

    Also, I often browse Cactus & Succulent Forum..think I have more sux than tropicals..

    There are several threads about snipping large Jade trunks to have the solo effect.
    In fact, 'think it was last summer,' someone bought a huge Jade trunk on looked like a stump from an outdoor tree..well, not really, but close.

    The person posted pics of his/her new, unrooted trunk, explaining what he/she planned on doing to get it to grow as one singular tree.
    Others followed suit, bought large cuttings/trunks from the same Ebay seller.

    Sorry, I don't remember the thread name, but it's on GW's C&S Forum.

    Hey SS. Yes, all the trunks were wacked all right..
    Yesterday, while watering plants in the LR, I came across a third Jade, wacked from the same plant..I placed in a warmer room than the others..

    You got it. My goal is for Jade/Crassula to grow one, single trunk w/o the V.

    Actually, each trunk has roots, so that's one step I don't have to bother with.

    Remember, each trunk, minus the smaller=leaf Crassula, came from the first Jade 'pic' above.
    I sliced roots w/a sharp knife.

    Believe me, every single leaf was removed, defoliated.

    Well, it's too late..The plant is defoliated. One Jade has a tiny leaft growing off one branch which I left alone.

    SS. Several years ago, I bought lids that fit on 12 oz soda/water bottles..the water drips slow.
    The tip is inserted in the soil..I might have a picture.
    Do you think these lids/bottles will do?

    The soil is bone dry.

    When should pots be submerged in water? Now, or when new growth resumes?

    Yep, I'll keep you posted..Also, for the record, lol, if by chance they don't make it, there's many more where they came from.

    One reason I decided to remove trunks...pot was way too heavy..VERY heavy..weighs more than
    It's still heavy, but not as bad as before dividing and removing trunks.

    BTW, what do you mean the soil is chunky? lol.

    Thanks everyone..Toni

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    SS, an older pic with bottles and lids.
    Bottles drip can take a month for a full bottle of water to drain.


    So, what's your opinion? Toni

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    I still feel thick as a brick, but am new to jades. Thanks for trying to explain it, not anyone's fault I'm just not getting it...

    Toni, do you want the leaves to be smaller, or to have more branches, or to be able to eliminate the forks at the tops of the trunks?

    "My goal is for Jade/Crassula to grow one, single trunk w/o the V."
    I'm not making the connection between this and removing all of the leaves.

    "This is a very common technique for this plant. :-) Yes drastic, but the end result is worth it. A lot of growers strip them and prune hard for a thicker growth later."
    Thicker growth of foliage or branches? Or for the trunk to look disproportionately big, a "fat plant?"

    I don't understand if that is the goal or a bonsai look. If the latter, wouldn't it be difficult to get some proportionately thick side branches at this point?

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I think I know the thread you are talking about and have linked it at the bottom.
    Toni~my plant isn't in the best of health so at the moment my concern is just getting it growing again. :-) But come spring, I do want to take it back and see what happens.

    purpleinopp~ Take a look at it , it has some neat plants. :-)
    Purple~a lot depends on what you prune as to what you will get out of the end result. It will be thicker foliage, and eventually, from what I understand, can also force new branches. Jades grow 2 leaves at a time, so by removing 1 , 2 will replace it, so it will have thicker growth.

    Toni wants a single trunk. Removing the leaves doesn't have much to do with that, but it does help a jade root. Now someone correct me if i'm wrong please!

    A Jade/any succulent, when it has no roots, will absorb moisture from the leaves, when that is gone, then it will send out roots. So by removing the leaves, it will send out roots to find moisture sooner.
    If you go by the cactus and succulent forum, and do a search for Jades, tons of fun reading will come up.

    It would be difficult to get thick branches at this point. Over time and with pruning they would thicken up. But I don't think that is Toni's goal.. (Toni, speak up if i'm wrong. lol)

    A bonsai, can be a single trunk. It is more a style of growing (not sure how to explain it) by keeping a plant in a tiny pot and keeping it dwarfed. To be a bonsai, Toni would have to remove it from time to time and root prune again. Does that make sense?

    Where's the Bonsai growers! lol..


    Here is a link that might be useful: Rooting Jade Stumps

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    Purple..Yep, I want thicker, single trunks. Per cutting/plant.

    By defoliating, foliage should grow, don't want smaller leaves...average size, 'on top,' like an outdoor tree, no leaves on the main trunk.

    I guess the look I want could be called fat plant, except I don't know how thick a Jade trunk gets.


    !!!!!!!! !!!!!!
    ! !
    !!!!!!!!!! ! !
    ! ! !!!!

    Get the idea? lol

    JoJo, I'll look at the link after posting. Don't know if this page will be lost if I check now.
    Thanks for the link.

    Come spring, if your Jade doesn't make it, you're welcome to a foliated, divided trunk..let me know come spring.


  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Darn, my drawing didn't

    JoJo..that's the thread! Thank you.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Toni, I haven't seen ascii art for years! That was a blast from the past. You did the best you could within the capabilities of this forum that deletes all extra spaces, despite the fact that correct grammar has 2 spaces after sentence-ending punctuation. I think I see what you're saying, all I needed was visual aids! Hope you'll post updates on this. I couldn't be more curious.

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    That drawing cracks me up! LOL! but works as purple says, you can only do so much on this forum. :-) So the basic look your aiming for would be kinda like a nice shade tree. Full rounded canopy, clean trunk. Sounds neat.

    Your welcome for the link. I had just come across it in a current post just a few days ago. lol..

    Thanks for the offer on a new jade if mine doesn't work, But I will have to politely pass. My jade is an unusual type, and if it doesn't (but know it will) make it I would want to replace it with the same. It's doing well though and am pretty sure will thrive! :-)


  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Purple...I'm so sad..I thought the drawing was Avant-garde. lol

    I didn't know the forum deleted spaces? Now I know.
    Some people are so talented...they add markings, colors/printed characters. I know you've explained, but please don't worry about appreciate your effort.

    In a formal, type-written letter, there should be two spaces after punctuation..I never noticed, but do you skip two spaces on GW?
    Did you open the link JoJo posted?

    JoJo. We all need a laugh. :)

    Funny, how timing works. Yesterday I spent 30-minutes trying to find the C&S

    Now you've made me curious about your Jade. Different? Is it variegated? Do you know its type?
    Have a picture by chance?

    Since you're in AZ, are Jades hardy to grow in-ground throughout the year?

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here's a link to a recent post in C & S forum with my Jade. I got it from Arid Lands here in Tucson, and the original that it is a cutting from came from Africa.

    I have never talked to anyone who has grown Jades year round in ground.
    I have never tried.
    Although we have awesome weather. Today for example, high 70's and cloudy, nights in the high 40's. We do have some frost and a freeze here and there. so if a Jade were to be in the ground, it would need protected at times, or in a good micro climate.


    Here is a link that might be useful: Unusual Jade.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Toni, your drawing was awesome. I have nothing but compliments for it! I tried for about 45 minutes to find something to compliment it. The extra spaces (with HTML code) will show up in preview, but no way to get them through submit. I guess a rose will work on here:


    Yes, I always type the spaces, and GW always deletes them, although in GW's defense, double spaces between sentences are missing all over the internet. It's a shame because it's teaching incorrect grammar to everyone. I'm constantly having to remind my daughter to fix that in her papers/reports for school.

    I skimmed over that thread but it seems like there was some hard luck involved. I don't think that part applies to your already-rooted trunks though. It's amazing what people can think of to try, and how the plants can often rise to the occasion!

  • aseedisapromise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I think I get what you are trying to achieve. I might have trimmed the jades differently to begin with. The top one I might have just cut off the bottom where the fork was. It will just try to grow the fork back over and over, even harder than it is going to try to grow side branches where you don't want them as it is. Jade trunks get very thick. I think that to get the fat plant look you might have to do drastic cutting a couple of times. My jade has forks, but the main trunk at the bottom is about three in. in diameter, and it isn't that big I don't think. The twelve foot ones outside in San Diego parks have much bigger trunks. I have drastically cut mine back about twice, I think. It's about two feet tall, and bloomed last year. There really isn't a shortcut to the look you want, I think.

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    JoJo..First, I hope your husband is doing well after surgery.

    Your Crassula is one of the most interesting I'd ever seen. Foliage is striking!

    Did it recover? How's it doing now? That is one Jade no one would want to lose.

    I 'assumed' since you're in AZ, certain Crassulas would be hardy enough to grow in-ground, year round.

    Purple, emoticons work here? Roses, Smily faces, etc?

    Most likely, you're used to double spacing after punctuation, so it comes naturally..even though the extra space is deleted.

    When a person types letters, works in an office, correct punctuation is done instictively.

    I never noticed GW deletes the second space..

    Experimentation is fun. Like the gorgeous combo planters you create.. Including that beauty you made for your friend/neighbor.

    ASeed. 'I might have trimmed the Jades back differently to begin with.' was the first time I've trimmed a Jade, heck, any plant. :) Also, it was an experiment.

    Yep, you have the right idea..But I'd rather not have a V-shape trunk..Problem is, how to cut off V w/o the Jade dying, or starting from scratch by re-rerooting...also, like you mentioned, new growth will continue growing..but to resolve this problem, all it takes is frequent trimming.

    Are Jades at San Diego park potted or in-ground? A big difference growing in containers opposed to planted in the earth.

    Very nice Jade, ASeed...pretty flowers. Its foliage is healthy green...very shiny.
    Notice side-shoots growing?
    Although side-shoots look good together, I'd like the trunk open, without obstructions...

    Will you allow babies to continue growing or remove them?

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Toni~ Thank you.. Yes he is. Actually from his second in Sept. :-/

    My Crassula is diff. :-)I fell in love with it for all it's "Different" qualities. Thank you. :-) It came from a local greenhouse that has an amazing selection of cactus and succulents. I love going there and spend several hours!

    It is slowly recovering. I noticed some hints of new growth this morning! :-) I'm anxious to see it happy again!

    Easy enough to 'assume' that they would grow in ground here. We do have amazing weather come winter! I'm sure some have luck, if they have a micro climate. I do have a micro climate I want to try one in come next season. No $$ to buy plants right now. :-)

    I never noticed the second space is removed. lol..


  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    "Like the gorgeous combo planters you create.. Including that beauty you made for your friend/neighbor. " Thanks, Toni!

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    JoJo..hope it's nothing serious. Have faith.

    On the lighter side, your Crassula sure is different. Believe you mentioned Arid Lands. Don't think I ever ordered from them, but visited their site several times. They have huge succulent varieties.

    When I think of AZ, Agaves, desert Palms, and other, large succulents/cacti come to mind.
    Maybe too much tv? lol.'re welcome.
    Have you started bringing plants indoors yet, or still too soon?

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi Toni~
    I'm sure he will be fine now. Thanks. :-)

    Yes, it came from Arid Lands. They do have a huge selection and just added on to the greenhouse! I'm anxious to get back and see it now. I love that I can browse the web site late night, and make a wish list and then just zip over there. I spend about 3hrs there when I do. :-)

    No.. Not too much tv. lol..
    We have tons of native cacti and succulents that can take the colder temps. But native being the key word. Cholla, prickly pear, agaves, barrel and many more. But even those take a hit from time to time and suffer some damage from a hard freeze, or prolonged frost. We don't have many freezes, maybe 2 or 3 a season, and only see a tiny snow maybe every 5 yrs. only and day and it doesn't last long before melting . lol..

    Micro climates play a key role. I have plants under a large shrub that do O.K. with a frost, but the same type plant out in the open wont. Basil for example. Will do fine under it, but out in the yard, first frost kills it.

    I do plan to get a jade come spring and try it under the shrub.


  • aseedisapromise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The jades in San Diego were growing in the ground, so they were having the time of their lives. Well, they could have used a little more water at the right time, I think. I've lived in Tempe AZ and I think that it's too cold there for jades outside. It really does freeze some. But maybe with the right micro climate or something. Under a shrub is a good idea jj.

    I have to repot mine this this spring, and so probably the babies will come out. But we'll have to see how it goes. That pic is from last year. This year it's all red and burnt from too much sun this summer. It's not budding up either. I've moved and the nice covered porch where I kept many cacti and succulents for the summer I had to leave there. I've got to find a better place for it next summer.

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Good Morning,

    JoJo. 3 hours! The nursery must be huge and have an exorbitant amount of succulents.
    You're lucky you live so close.

    You have quite a few native succulent selections.
    What exactly is Cholla? I almost bought one last year. Is it thorny? Not sure, but thought I read somewhere Cholla is very thorny..invasive in some areas..though not here. lol. Can't recall the reason I didn't get one.
    Or does it resemble Poinsettia?

    What about desert palm trees?

    What is the hottest it gets in summer?

    Snow in AZ! Even though it melts fast, I can't imagine the west getting snow..Even every 5 years..

    The weather has been strange the last 10 or so years. Plants that normally die in the cold, 'mostly annuals,' have been popping up the following year/s. Seems to get warmer each winter. We rarely get snow anymore. Midwest has changed, a lot.

    I don't know anything about herbs..Isn't Basil an annual? I thought basil grew then picked to eat? lol.

    How do you test micro climates? Seriously. I've seen several threads where people discuss m c's, and wondered how they know which part of their yard is warmer or colder.
    Is a thermometer used? Checking different parts of a garden/property?

    What type of Jade do you plan on getting?

    ASeed. Red Jades are so pretty. :) Wish my leaves would redden. Happen to have a picture?

    Did you say you moved?

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    3 hrs is a short visit! LOL! I get to talk and visit one on one with the owners, and just browse! Yes lots of plants too! :-) Yes, I am lucky to have such a great place so close.

    We have a few other great nursery's, one having everything, the other only cactus and succulents, but about a 30 min. drive away.

    Cholla is pure evil! LOL! It's very common all over the desert and very painful if you get it in you! No, nothing like a poinsettia. You really can not touch Cholla! It's all thorns!
    A link is included at the bottom.
    Yes, we have a ton of native cactus and succulents. makes living here so interesting. I have Saguaro's , barrel's and a few others in my front yard. :-)

    I'm not sure about desert palms, I would have to google that one.

    Hmmm... Hottest... well, 110* is average for June with very little humidity. and ranges up to about 113* Temps come down some in July..98-105* when the monsoons start, and humidity increases, but not as much as other parts of the nation. Arizona is known for it's "Dry heat". :-)We don't start dropping below 90* till October or so. Our days are still in the high 70's-low 80's right now.

    We see snow once in awhile down here. I'm in the southwest corner. But northern Arizona, gets a lot of snow!!! We do have a ski resort just an hour drive away. ..So we can go up and play in it, and come back down to the warmer temps. lol..
    I have seen 1 white Christmas and 1 snow day for the schools. :-)

    Seems to be changes everywhere.

    Basil is an annual. Dies with the first frost. You only pick what leaves you need, and the plant keeps going. :-)

    I'm not real sure how to test for a micro climate. A thermometer would be one way. And yes, observing parts of the yard.
    A micro climate is an area that is somewhat sheltered, Mine for example is a large evergreen/juniper that I pruned out to be a mushroom shape. I'll look later and see if I have any pics. so the canopy holds some heat in, it is next to my patio, so there's a little reflected heat from that and next to my awning, and a truck parked on the other side. also a little sheltered from wind from other shrubs.

    I noticed mine mainly from knowing what a micro climate is and seeing my basil survive a hard frost, and the one out in the open didn't, on the same morning.

    A cheap Jade, so if it doesn't survive I'm not out much. lol! ;-)


    Here is a link that might be useful: Cholla Cactus

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Basil is a tender perennial.

  • aseedisapromise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    When we lived in Tempe and would go hiking around the Superstition Mtns, we would often see these cows with pieces of cholla stuck on them. I always thought it was cruel to graze cows in desert. I thought it was funny to google cow and cholla together and find a photo so easily. They are evil. I don't know how many I had to get out of my dogs. We always took a comb with us hiking, not for our hair, but for cholla removal. It would get rid of the pieces, but not the little barbs.

    I think there is a fan palm that is native in AZ. Washingtonia or something? I can't remember. You can find it around springs.

    What I really hated about AZ were all the folks who liked to go out into the desert and shoot up the saguaros. I really laughed when I saw a news item about someone who was doing this and the cactus fell on him and killed him. Yay!

    As far as microclimates, look for things like shelter from wind, southern exposure next to a wall, along the foundation if your basement isn't insulated well, or even if it is. Tree cover. Under trees is good because the heat really can radiate out to space in a clear area on a clear night. The heat is held in some by covering. The trees do compete some, and it is notoriously drier under trees, as they do like to grab up the water, but the frost has to be much more severe to kill things under trees. Mostly it just seems that you have to look at your area outside with that in mind, and notice the places where winterkill happens later consistently, or where marginal plants are able to make it, or if you have a heavy frost, go out and look at all the places in your yard where the frost isn't so thick on the grass.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cow with Cholla

  • asleep_in_the_garden
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Some time back I heard that if you dig your garden area deep and then halfway fill the bottom with gravel to provide extra drainage that this would force a microclimate.


  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    A bleak day. Bah! :)

    JoJo. All but one family-owned nursery remains opened within a 50-mile radius. Ted's. Ted's is about an hour away.
    I love browsing and shopping there. If I didn't get lost I'd drive to Ted's myself, so dh has to tag along..he gets bored 20 mins after we walk

    Ted's green house/s are huge. The main green house is divided in sections, the first being succulents.
    Although he, Ted, has lovely succulents, compared to Aridlands Ted's is the size of a tent. lol.
    I checked Aridlands nursery last night. They DO have vast and very interesting varieties.

    I also saw your Jade..oh JoJo, it IS beautiful. Its leaves are amazing, so different.

    Your are Right..Cholla is evil. lol. Can you imagine repotting? Thankfully, I didn't buy one and now I remember the reason.
    Cholla's probably looks fantastic in open land, but not a plant for indoors.

    Our dog, Coco, is a burr magnet; I can imagine if he somehow managed to get himself stuck in Cholla. lol

    The link you posted said Cholla represents more than 20 species of Optunia..

    No wonder it's prickly.
    Optunia, Prickly Pear, although gorgeous when mature, 'especially bearing fruit,' is another thorny plant. A pain hauling in and out.

    Sometimes I browse state flowers/birds. Yesterday, I discovered Sagauro is AZ's state flower.
    Does your Sagauro bloom?

    IL state flower is Viola, but don't know why it was chosen. IL state flower should be dandelions. lol.

    Wow, AZ is hot. One reason I asked is out of curiosty, but when I worked at a plant store, a woman said she was from AZ. We started talking about temperature, lol..She said it can get up to 140F degrees.
    Last year, my brother and I were talking about AZ, 'he wants to move there,' and I mentioned the temp.. We looked online, but couldn't find the numbers the woman said. She might have meant it in jest..ex, it feels like 140F, however she certainly sounded serious..
    Whatever, 113 is still hot. lol.
    I've heard 113F w/dry heat feels more like 100F in an area with higher humidity.

    Is it difficult growing veggies in-ground during extremely hot, dry seasons? Or tropicals???

    Never thought about shelters increasing micro-climates, but you're right.
    We planted Ornamental Cabbage in the back yard, I think 2010. OC is an annual..yet, it's alive and well to this day. It's planted between two garages.
    Same with Hardy Ornametal Banana. It too is planted in the yard, between a couple large, perennial bushes and tree. The tree is about 20' away, but offers enough shelter to prevent strong winds.
    So, it's probably a little warmer out back.
    I've attempted growing the same type of banana in front, twice, but both died during winter..There's no shelter in in the front garden.

    Yes, please post pictures..If you have any cactus/succulent photos, 'outside,' please post them too.

    There you the future, you know the area to plant herbs...basil, etc.

    Before our neighbors husbands passed away, every spring she'd plant tomatoes, hot and sweet peppers and herbs. Once they ripened, she'd jar for sauces...I don't know how she kept herbs, but somehow managed.
    A great way to save money. I can't believe the price of one tomato or pepper. A packet of seeds start from .10. One tomato or pepper can cost as much as 3.00!

    Speaking of temperature..Yesterday it was 60F. Quite warm for Nov. It's 53 now, hopefully warms up this afternoon, and doesn't rain. I have a doc appt today..don't like driving in rain or snow.
    No snow on Thanksgiving

    One snowfall. Were you born in AZ? Think you'd like seeing snow on Christmas? :)

    Purple, thanks. Makes sense. Do you know if Basil reseeds or the main plant stays alive? Like I said earlier, don't know anything about herbs, other than using in cooking. lol.
    Michael, 'son' once bought me a Chia Pet Herb Garden for Christmas..Poor kid. I felt terrible..knew they wouldn't grow, and sure enough, didn't..I sowed the seeds, but can't recall if they even germinated.

    ASeed..oh that poor Wonder if she can lick the Cholla off her nose. Oh Lord, then she'd have thorns on her tongue.
    What's in her ears?

    Superstition Mountains..Sounds spooky..Do you know why the mountains are named Superstition?

    Your poor dogs. Coco finds burrs somewhere in the yard, and always at the woods. There were taimes he was covered in burrs.
    I can't imagine trying to remove large thorns from their coats.

    Thanks, that's the palm I was thinking about. Washingtonia Fan. Desert palms have thicker foliage than tropical palms.

    Why would people shoot cactus? lol. Entertainment? A sport? Is it legal?
    I know what you mean about the man shooting a cactus. Well, I don't want anyone dying, but slightly injured. lol.
    Same thing happened to a man hunting deer. He will no longer kill another Bambi again.

    Another good point...check areas where frost isn't present. Which proves the reason our Ornamental Cabbage and Banana returns.
    2-3 days ago, the front yard was covered in frost..the back yard was clear.

    Learn something new everyday on GW. Thanks.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    I love zone-pushing and micro-climates. A significant pile of leaves can help a LOT. And planting questionably-hardy things on a slight hill. Asleep, I agree, for some plants, but finding which are candidates is not easy. Often it's not the cold, but the wet that creates the northern edge of hardiness for some plants. Sometimes it's all about drainage. It's confusing because the conventional wisdom is to go down a zone when planting in a pot, but I've seen so many examples of pots helping keep plants dry enough to survive in lower than reliable zones. Does your house have those semi-circle sunken basement windows? They make clear covers for them that can turn them into coldframes.

    Basil will live unless/until cold kills it, same with tomatoes, both about as sensitive as Coleus, but then what's left becomes excellent stuff for the compost pile. That far north a microclimate would only extend the life of one of these, don't think it would be possible to actually overwinter a plant in the ground. Bananas are much more hardy.

    Basil grows roots as easily as Coleus, easy to keep in water on kitchen windowsill. Besides cooking, I just love to ruffle the leaves and smell that wonderful aroma!

    The cuttings I planted back out this spring grew much larger plants than I've grown from seed before, BUT you also have to consider that since I had more plants, I harvested fewer leaves from each when cooking something. I'm going to have MORE basil next summer, 10 is nowhere near enough, I want hedges of it on all sides of the house, and more to give to people. Wherever there's a spot, this yummy plant smells and looks beautiful every day until frost, and the flowers attract all kinds of bees and butterflies all summer. Also makes a superb green filler for bouquets.

    Took this pic 10/29/this year. To the left of the Sans are 2 big Basil plants, from last years' saved cuttings, AFTER I took a bunch of cuttings from each.

    Hey, you can see that Callisia fragrans too, far right. I've harvested a bunch of runners, the ones still attached I keep near the edge so I can make sure they don't get rooted. If it's all dead next spring, I can feel comfortable putting this in the ground as annuals. Hope so.

  • asleep_in_the_garden
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hiya Purp!

    Nope...No such basement windows here but many of the neighbors have them. I live in a group home of sorts and I'm lucky that the management is willing to put up with my compulsive need to keep plants. My room is so filled with them that from the door it's effectively a path to my bed.

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi all,
    Sorry I'm getting behind! lol.. There are some great posts here and I will catch up soon. :-)

    Have a Happy Thanksgiving! and be safe!

  • cena60
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I am a fan of the serrated knife...

    I am tracking photos, and will add as I find. The pot shown is a bulb pot. This plant was placed out on the lawn at the apartment building and got watered every day until we moved. Then the adventure began... It looked like this, then got tipped over.

  • cena60
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The plant had quite a root ball, thus the knife. I understand it will be different in cases of trauma, I'm documenting what I did, and I hope it might help. (Hiya, Toni!)

    I have to find a picture, side on of the plant. I'll post this for now, and keep on looking.
    I carved, cut, and repotted, back in the same pot.
    A few years passed...
    (That's my foot!)
    I smacked it back out of the pot. {{gwi:112153}}
    Remember that serrated knife I mentioned?

    I carved a LOT of root off, bottom, two sides with a slight trim on the other two. This tray is long, about four inches deep, with two holes. I made some weird loop that loosely looped over each side of the plant, ran down through the hole and was clipped and wound tight.

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    ""Basil is a tender perennial."" I stand corrected. ;-) Thank you Purplinopp..:-) I forgot about that group. Fancy way of saying a annual got lucky and survived a frost. lol. I did have a basil plant go 2 years with coming back in the spring.

    Aseed~ It really bothers me to see any cactus harmed! We live near the Saguaro National Monument. Beautiful area to hike! Fines and jail time are steep if someone gets caught! I didn't see the news article you speak of but would have loved to see that too! A comb is the best way to get cholla out! Ive gotten it in me a few times.. not fun!

    Hubby doesn't last long either before he gets bored, so I stopped taking him! lol.. not to mention he picks a plant because it's weird, and I get stuck taking care of it. and it's usually something I would have never bought. lol.

    Aird lands actually travels to Africa from time to time to gather new material and seed!

    My little Jade is a beauty and different! That's what I liked about it. It's doing better! Last night I noticed it's plumped up a little and has some new growth! So glad it's on the mend! I feel bad about getting behind with all my plants. :-(

    There are 2 other nursery's I want to visit here, but not sure how to get to them, so we'll take a road trip someday and see what happens. I get lost easy! LOL! But am trying to learn new places. Starr Nursery and Miles to go, cactus and succulents.

    My saguaro's don't bloom yet or even have arms. They are to young. I think they don't bloom till 100 yrs old. would need to research it. I've had mine since 1986, and they were only 3" big when I got them. Now are over 5'.

    Dandelions are good to eat! LOL! many think or state bird is the Road Runner, but it's actually the Cactus Wren. :-) who believe it or not , nest in Cholla!

    Arizona gets a little warm in the summer. ;-) The hottest I've ever seen in Tucson was 115, which is common for Phoenix, Az.

    We can and do grow veggies in ground all summer. They wilt in the heat of the day then perk back up in eve. They just need a little more water. Some people take a break from July to the end of Sept. then re plant for a fall garden. I've never tried tropicals outside. Our growing season is almost 10 months out of the year.

    """There you the future, you know the area to plant herbs...basil, etc."""
    I wont plant herbs in this area. It is for ornamental plants only. Although the perfect spot for herbs, it gets run off from the roof and I don't want food growing there. Little chips of paint and such.

    Were spoiled with our temps that's for sure! lol.. were a little on the high side for this time of year. Yesterday was almost 80! Usually low 70's right now.

    Yes, was born in Phoenix, Az. moved to Tucson when 4yrs.

    My expierence with Basil is it doesn't reseed very well, but may be due to us being so DRY! I had one plant die off come frost, and come back come spring.

    """Why would people shoot cactus? lol. Entertainment? A sport? Is it legal? """ Sadly, just to be jerks! Illegal and very steep fines up to $5,000 and jail time! They are a protected species!

    Need to run now and get our newest member of our family some bugs from pets mart. LOL! A box turtle. :-)


  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    I was searching for this thread, since I wanted to add to page 3 before I found it on page 1.

    Purple...If Coleus and 'tropical' Bananas are hardier than Basil, it'd never, ever be a tender tropical here.

    My kitchen windows face north..Ferns, two Begonias, Episcia, Philo and baby Clivia live in both windows..
    Herbs wouldn't grow in either pane..too shady.

    Purple, my eyesight is getting poorer everyday. Is your Basil potted or in-ground??

    Your Sans is HUGE!! Wow. Love it.

    I see your Cal to the right. BEWARE..if it survives winter, next spring you'll be digging up Cals, front, side and back gardens.. :)

    What type of food do you add Basil?

    Hiya Cena...Wow, what a Jade. Love its red hues. Do you know its variety?

    Wait, a question. Is the Jade the same plant in each picture?
    From shallow clay to tray? 4" deep? How on earth?

    Your serrated knife certainly gets a lot of

    So, you've cut your Jade twice?
    Did you remove ALL foliage after trimming roots?

    I need to find wider, shallow pots. Though difficult.
    Like your roots, 'unless longer roots were carved,' my Jade too has shallow roots..a deep pot isn't needed, right?

    What ran through the hole??

    JoJo.... After seeing your beautiful Crassula/Jade, I ordered one from Aridlands. Your

    Unfortunately, it looks nothing like yours..No speckles or rare-shaped leaves. I'm disappointed?

    Or does it need to mature, more sun, before speckles appear?



    Can you please give me care details? Should it be in a warm or cool room?
    I know it needs sun, but there's more gray than blue skies.

    Two choices. Either a south and west window w/artificial light, or semi-bright south, w/o artificial light in warmer room...which room would be better?

    Crassula came bare-root, now in a 3" clay pot.

    I've heard of Starr and Miles To Go. Can't recall if I ever ordered from Miles...sure I didn't from Starr.
    Any particular succulent you're looking for or picking at random? lol..Easy to do.

    LOL, you get lost too? You and I should be taxi drivers..My dh says, if I did, I'd be a millionaire, day

    JoJo..I feel the same planting herbs. They'd be grown for ornamental the garden.
    Too many animals come in our yard, plus Coco, 'dog.' He pee's on plants.
    I won't even eat strawberry's that pop up each year.
    I had a grape vine growing on an arbor, but the birds got to fruit first, so I decided to tear it down.
    We feed outdoor birds daily...Seed, bread, etc.

    I'm SO happy hearing people get fined for shooting cactus. What's wrong w/people these days??
    Why not hang a target and shoot at that?

    A few times National News reported people stealing cactus from western states..Especially endangered types. They're now being fined. Good!

    But to shoot at a plant makes no sense. I don't understand why anyone would have the desire to do such a thing.

    AWW, a box turtle. Do you lift him? What does he eat? What did you name him? lol.

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Just cooked a ham dinner and am pooped! lol.

    Cena~ Great plant and pictures! Shallow pots are hard to find here too! Maybe because Arizona isn't too great for bulbs. Frustrating though, I like shallow for cactus!

    Purple~ I love growing Basil too , just to have it around the garden to smell! As you say, if you barely brush up against it, oh the smell is heaven! I just brought in a lemon basil and stuck it in my pot with my Elephant Ear to see how it will grow indoors this winter. Have some mint I want to try inside too . :-)

    Toni~ I love growing herbs, just not in the micro climate I mentioned because of dirty run off from the roof. But have them all over the yard! I've heard lemon scented plants are good to ward off mosquitoes, so I have it around for that reason too. As far as what to add it too, that is just a matter of taste. I use it fresh in scrambled eggs, on spaghetti, and many other ways. In salads, it's endless. Key to remember, if cooking with fresh herbs, add them last so they don't overcook and become bitter.

    You got a Jade! LOL! Like you don't have enough plants? ;-)
    I'm sorry your a little disapointed with it at the moment, but I think there's a few reasons it's different, and in time it will change in color and form, I think the leaves have some curl to them and will change in time. It looks a little under watered maybe, but it is time to start cutting back a little.

    I got mine a year and a half ago. Even though I am only a few miles from Arid Lands, we still will have different growing results. Mine may get more sun, or less, diff. temps then what it was at the greenhouse.
    You bought yours towards the end of the growing season too.
    Mine was outside till just a few weeks ago, so it was getting quite a bit of sun, and we all know how sun colors up a Jade. At Arid lands, they grow under a shade cloth. So may not be in their best color there . :-)
    I will link what mine looked like when I first got it. It was a lot diff. then what it is now.
    I think in time, yours will change to look more like mine. Probably come spring when it is growing strong again, and the sun will be brighter.

    Right now Jades like cool nights, and warm days. Mine is inside due to almost losing it. It would normally be out right now and only protected from frost.
    Right now I would think a bright window, in a cool room. Mine is in a east window, and the room only has heat that filters in from the rest of house.

    This will be my first time having a Jade in for the winter, so I'm not real sure what to tell you as far as whats best. Maybe Josh, or Mike. :-)
    I usually winter all my plants out in a little greenhouse, we are mild compared to most, so that's always been enough, but almost losing this one this summer, I brought it in.

    I pick my plants just at random usually. :-) Just what looks neat or different at the time. I am looking for a good winter growing one right now.

    Oh.. I get lost so easy! LOL! I've changed a lot since March and have had to do things by myself I normally would have not done and driven to so many new places, I truly amaze myself, and am happy with how much I've grown!
    Planning a trip soon to Starr Nursery with my mom! Hope I find it! LOL!!!

    I dont get why people shoot our beautiful cactus either. But they are protected, so it's a major crime here!

    Yes, we got a box turtle last week. Our neighbor didnt want theirs anymore. So the asked me to take it. I love turtles! It's a small type and full grown, at 6". Yes, we play with it. :-) Not named yet, but thinking along the lines of the Daughter of Mahamid Ali. (Leila)

    It eats bugs so we have our work cut out for us! LOL! Gonna start raising fishing worms for her. :-)

    Here is a link that might be useful: Jade when I got it. (May 2011)

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Toni, I wouldn't blame that on your eyesight. That pic's hazy and there's pots all over the area. Those Basil plants are in the ground.

    Jojo, good luck!!

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi Purpleinopp!
    Good luck with what? Raising bugs? I already do for my Leopard Gecko, and Quail, so whats a few more? ;-) lol.

    Or was it for not getting lost? :LOL)

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Jojo, good luck with all of it! But in particular, it was in reference to: " I just brought in a lemon basil and stuck it in my pot with my Elephant Ear to see how it will grow indoors this winter. Have some mint I want to try inside too."

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Oh.. Ok. :-) Thanks! :-)
    The mint is doing O.K. but was about dead when I brought it in, so time will tell. I want to try and make it a Bonsai. It sits low and isn't getting a lot of sun, so not sure how it will go.
    The mint will go in a pot up high and get a good sunny south window. :-) Our stores just got a shipment in 2 weeks ago, so I grabbed a few mint. One is chocolate, the other apple and the are usually only available in the spring.

    I have a shelf I need to put up in the craft/plant room and plan on starting a few other basils. Love it! :-)


  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    That sounds like fun, bonsai mint! Way cool! Mint is one of those supposedly weedy plants I've never had any luck with.

    I'm starting to think about shelves in the windows here, like as part of the window. Have to ask DH what he can do...

  • jojosplants
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I meant a bonsai out of the basil. :-)
    Mint would be fun, but I was looking at it and I don't see how I could get a woody upright stem to work from. I would love to try, but not seeing it. Now a topiary would be fun with the mint! :-)

    It mint is growing in the right spot, it will spread like crazy! I don't mind and let it run wild in my squash bed and use the cuttings in water. Especially the chocolate mint!

    From the looks of your other post you could really use shelves! lol.. Surprised DH hasn't already put some up! lol..


  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    8 years ago

    Oh, that is an interesting idea, bonsai Basil. I sure could use something to pinch this winter, and the cuttings I grabbed on panic night are fairly stiff-stemmed. (Thought you just knew something about mint or a kind of mint I'm not familiar with on the bonsai comment. LOL!!)

    I've always tried mint in pots, probably watered it to death. It's been about a decade since I had one, back in my peat days. If I ever see chocolate mint again, I'll definitely put some in the lawn here, which is definitely not all grass. It would go well with all of the other non-grass plants and smell good when we mow.

  • birdsnblooms
    Original Author
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago


    I swear, I'm really losing it. Thought I replied yesterday...what happened? lol

    JoJo. What time did you start baking a ham? lol
    I looked at the time of your read: 0:18. lolol

    What size, 'shallow pots' are you looking for? How shallow/wide?

    Think I have lemon-scented Geranium. Unless the leaves are rubbed, I can't detect a scent, yet, when around zonal/seeded Geraniums, the fragrance is unbelievably strong. I don't get it!

    JoJo, you're right..I shouldn't have complained. It's just after seeing
    I can't believe your Kalanchoe on C&S forum. Wow!
    And your C. pagoda!! I am green and variegated w/envy...
    Hopefully, there's always next spring. :)

    Pagoda's are

    Never heard of Starr Nursery so checked it And no, didn't buy anything..It's a little too cold for shipping..20'sF high..boohoo.

    Leila is a pretty she a she? How can you tell?
    6"...Aww, so cute..I love turtles, too, but we have enough pets..and I'm not getting younger..

    Purple..bonsai Basil? I'd love seeing a pic of a basil bonsai.

    When we moved here, there was NOID mint growing smelled wonderful, but invasive. It took many moons before ridding.
    The mint grew tiny, purple/lavendar flowers and smelled like Spearment gum.
    If anyone here remembers Spearment gum.

    BTW, 2 of the actually 4 Jade cuttings have teeny-weeny, new leaves...Guess there's hope afterall.