Lets see if I can help by making it easier for people to access the pictures. I will use your text to help provide context:

"Here's the wide view :

{{gwi:54927}}

Here's another shot, showing the dry part at right:
{{gwi:54928}}

And then the dense shade area at left, where I made a terraced level:
{{gwi:54929}}

A few ratty azaleas and rhodos survived the purge, and I have a few hostas, about 5 astilbe, a dwarf maple tree, a beauty berry bush, some tufts of miniature liriope, some different grasses (milleum effusium aureum, new zealand flax, stipa tenuissima) some palace purple coral bells, some sedums, a schizophragma moonlight, and a few other things. On the perimter, there are very mature camellias, a magnolia tree, a laurel and of course the big holly tree in front."
{{gwi:54930}}

I am not a landscape designer, but let me give you some feedback from someone who recently went through the landscaping process. The impression I get from the pictures you provided and your description is that you are not a detail-oriented person. Rather, your strength seems to lie in being intuitive or "feeling" your way through things. As you now realize, that can be expensive and frustrating when it comes to landscaping.

You really do need a solid plan. That is where you could be experimenting with color, texture, placement, mass, and so on. In order to get a solid plan, you either need to bring in a professional or spend a very large amount of time reading, talking to people, experimenting, going to public gardens and so on.

I sounds like you really want to do the right thing here and even went so far as to bring in other people to work with you. Why didn't you include a landscape designer on your team? Bringing in a landscaper first seems like putting the horse before the cart.

I also empathize with the distress you are clearly feeling. The good news is that much of this is reversible. However, I also get the feeling that you are running around in circles. Stop, take a deep breath, and take stock of your situation. Get a designer and start at the beginning. What do you want from your garden? What are the microclimates in your environment? How do you envision the hardscape? Again, there are a great number of books and websites that will help you with this.

Finally, from a purely logistical perspective, your post is not going to work very well for you in terms of getting the information you want. For one, some of the pictures are blurry and one is sidewise. For another, you can't just post links and "hope they work." They don't work, unless you ignore [IMG] brackets, which you would have discovered if you tested them yourself. Posting in this way communicates that you are not respectful of people's time. Since this forums runs on the "kindness of strangers" a lot of people will not bother responding. If you don't understand how to do something, people respond well if you ask for help.

Finally, it works much better if you ask one or two specific questions, rather than asking everything at once. Your post is really rather overwhelming in this way. Again, people are busy and tend to pass over posts that are complex or difficult. If you make it easier for them, you will get more responses.

Hope this helps...

It's pretty well accepted that if you buy plants on a whim. one of this, one of that, and plant one here, one there, what you get is an un-cohesive mess.

The same can be true of hardscape. Take a look at your slope, a bit of rock retaining here, a small area of slope there. It adds up to a general slope full of minor bumps and inconsistences. The steps are another element scattered across the slope.

The first step should be to simplify the landscape. If retaining walls are used they should be bigger, longer and fit the scale of the yard. Flat areas need to be flat, bold areas. The steps then connect these well defined areas in a way that is meaningful.

Just a side note:

Our many thanks go to swanoir for providing an excellent example of how to include multiple photos in a posting. For those of us with dial-up connections, had all of the photos been displayed, this thread would have taken 20 to 30 minutes or more just to load.

As I said in another recent thread, photos can be either a blessing or a curse to forum postings. Monster photos which include the HUGE files to support their super resolution are becoming a major problem on the Internet. It is senseless (and rude) to include this much data when all of the photos are only displayed at 72 pixels. If you are going to post photos -- especially multiple photos -- learn how to reduce the file size. It is easy to do and is offered free at many websites.

Again, our thanks to swanoir for turning what started out as a failed curse into a posting able to be enjoyed by all.

IronBelly

I am as guilty of running a lot of large photos as anybody. Sorry.

Here is an example of reduced file size. Dimension reduced to 80%, compression at 75%, photo turned right side up. New file size a little more than a quarter of the original.

thanks, swanoir, for the time and effort it took to fix my photos. I will educate myself on reducing photo size for next time.
Initially, my budget included working with someone to at least get to the point of an overall garden plan. However, the initial preparation work went about 40 percent over budget, and that pretty much represented the funds I had for planning and initial planting. I think my mistake was in hiring a "doer", rather than a visionary (or more truthfully he didn't execute his vision, as the money was all gone). I guess I would consider swallowing my pride and bringing in an expert for help.
Pls8xx, your comment makes alot of sense to me, that the landscape needs to be simplified. I will take a look at it with that in mind. I certainly have experience with people making that mistake -- too small a scale -- in interior design.

From looking at the photos I'd have to agree about working with the hardscape first. The property could use some good grading and a retaining wall to bi-level the area with the existing steps going through to the entrance. A more economic retaining wall could be done with the use of boulders to retain the soil and bi-level the property. Then trailing plants could hang over the boulders with mass plantings of evergreens and perennials in the backdrop. The main thing is to first stabolize the soil and level the planting areas out. Yes-a good plan would be the best way to go before going any further. Don't be discouraged. It may take some planning and time; however, you will be much more satisfied with the results. Your property does have the potential to be very inviting.

I'm not a designer, but, FWIW, I think you're getting too down about your yard. Yeah, it looks a little like a construction site right now, but you have a beautiful house, a beatiful backdrop of tall trees, and framing trees and shrubs on both sides (from what I can see in the photos).

I'm guessing from your zone, the fact your in Canada, the tree that looks like a Doug-fir, and the current plants, that you have acid soil and live in British Columbia. Although you call part of the yard "sunny", based on what I can see in the picture, it's, at best, probably what the rest of us would call part-shade.

You aren't likely to be able to grow much of a lawn there, but moss is soft, attractive and grows great in the Pacific NW. You need a sort of a plan, but, broadly, I'd say to focus on the slow-growing acid-loving, evergreen shrubs that thrive in the acid soil, mild winters: rhodies, laurels, etc. Maybe some azaleas and blueberries (deciduous). You could put shrubs on the slopes. If you have paths, make them wide. Put your perennials, if you want them, near the house where you will be more inclined to tend them.

Relax, stroll around the neighborhood and see what you like, and have fun.
Kelly Cassidy

thanks, kelly....you are correct about soil type, plants, location. You have a nicely relaxed sensibility about gardening, which is, after all, sometimes fun.
Because the yard has had this "construction zone look" for about a year now, I contacted a designer today. what a huge relief to turn over some of the visioning to someone else with more skill! i'll happily be the labor to execute a plan that I contribute to and buy into.

There was a considerable effort and expense made here. Swanoir claims it as a failure.

My question is why we believe that a second attempt won't be good money after bad. How much of a turnaround can be expected as a result of posting pictures and having discussions about it?

This is an investment both for lifestyle and resale value if the time comes to sell. Obviously this is something valued by Swanoir enough to work very hard at and spend some money on and now to be considering to do it all over again.

Based on the confidence that was had going into the project and the disappointing results (by Swanoir's account), doesn't it seem like a big gamble to attempt it all over again under the circumstances that there is no real reason to expect a significantly better result? By that I mean that Swanoir has only this one experience to gain from and nothing else? It does not seem unreasonable to expect that improvements would be made, but I think it would be unreasonable to expect a 100% turnaround that would make it more worthwhile than other alternatives.

What I'm saying is that why gamble with a lot of money and effort (and time not being able to enjoy it) on something that has little promise to work out?

Why not invest in a higher probability of success and hire someone who has a track record of the kind of results that are sought? The result should be a good result the first time around, a job completed much more rapidly than by an inexperienced homeowner, and done with much higher quality both from an aesthetic and construction point of view?

I don't mean to be cruel, but what is the sense in going through this all over again with no real reason to expect a much better result? A season of not being able to sit on the deck and enjoy the beauty of the property has already been lost, not to mention the money and effort. Which is of more value - trying to do it again, or hiring a professional and having it done right and right away?

That is the best advice that I can give because anything else is too superficial to get Swanoir to a good landscape that can meet the stated vision.

collaway,
I have been following your trials and tribulations, really not planning to post any thoughts. Glad to hear that you are going for a second chance with another designer. You seem comfortable with interior design. In many ways there are few basic differences between interior and exterior design.

ie: When designing your living room arrangement you probably had to deal with a fireplace and how to arrange furniture in relationship to it. Question to be asked and answered...should the fireplace be the main focus of the room? Think of the various furniture placement ideas you played with exploring a final design solution.

An LA should go through much the same thought process in designing your front yard. Substitute 'house' for 'fireplace'. The house is an attractive, period house. Use house as a focal point. Design hardscape and shaded gardens so view from street and approach are comfortable feeling. As with interior furniture, scale is important in your final design. Also, a bit of positive thinking. Substitute the words 'blank slate with opportunity' for 'scorched earth'. Would love to see pictures when all has been completed.

Whoops!

I thought Swanoir was the OP. Sorry about that.

This thread is an interesting parallel to the "its about the journey" thread.

laag,
I completely agree with you--apart from the small case of mistaken identity. Poor Swanoir is the kind citizen who re-posted my photos in a smaller format so that people could actually see them. I'm the original poster.
You say, "What is the sense in going through this all over again with no real reason to expect a much better result?"
I think I got that shortly after I posted here. It's not the easiest thing to ask for help (maybe it is for some people! not for me, though). I felt a bit like I was rolling a peanut uphill. Asking alot from an anonymous forum. And then the first responses were more about my etiquette breaches than my landscape. (Have to be honest: I thought, "At least I'm not asking what rocks are in style"! LOL.)
I think in this age of DIY, it feels like anyone should be able to educate themselves in how to do anything. At least for myself, I have learned how to do many things...but to a high standard in all of them? Maybe not.
I don't malign the first person I hired to help on this project....because I pulled the plug before we got to the finishing stages, when the budget had been exceeded. I thought I could carry on myself and achieve the results I wanted. But instead, I have been mired in the mucky failure-feeling of it all.
So--for help in recognizing "when to fold 'em", I thank you.

My thoughts on this thread follow along the lines of those posted by Kelley. Your place seems to have a lot of potential. What I might do is to have 5 yards of mulch delivered and spread that out to cover the "scorched earth". Sure it will not look "finished" but it will help out with the appearance and weed growth. Think about how you want your yard to look and about how you want to utilize your front yard and tackle a small project each year.

Good luck with your designer. Somewhere around here there is a decent check list of things to think about before talking with a designer (posted by miss_rumphius_rules I think).

- Brent

"It's not the easiest thing to ask for help" you say and this has been a topic for as long as this forum has existed. How best to ask for help has been flogged to death, how not to insult those you are asking has had some mileage too. In the end this forum exists solely for the purpose of dealing with those who ask for help about design: help with understanding the theory: help with understanding the practical, the specific and the general. It is doubtful that decorating a christmas tree has very much to do with landscape design so sometimes we loose the track. Something that is difficult to comprehend is that for every question like calloway's there are people reading with similar questions. We can chose to contribute or not but there is really no harm in asking.

... and really no harm done by answering even when the answers seem harsh. These are letters on a screen whether they are questions or answers that we view are good or bad. There really is very little at stake on either end.

yeah, I actually meant -- although I was a little anxious about posting here -- that it was harder to get to the point where I am seeking professional help and giving up on the idea that I can do it all myself brilliantly.
When I used to work as a journalist, people would tell me all the time that when they retired, they "planned to do a little writing."
Sometimes I would answer that, when I retired, I planned to do a little "engineering/firefighting/brain surgery--INSERT PROFESSION HERE."

well it isn't as all bad as that.
your site has lots of potential. you have some good bone in place already. you know that you need help and have asked for it.

i like the stone drive. if it were me i'd define it a bit more-- the side nearest the house being a bit more refined than the other side. having the drive take you from the wild part of the yard to the tamed part of the yard.
be sure that the area where your drive opens onto the road is clear for safety sake and so that people know that this is where you live. then the rest of the yard on your right as you drive up the driveway could be kept in a natural state with native plants etc.
on the left side as you go up the drive maybe a rough cut stone retaining wall planted with bulbs and other plants that like good drainage.
your steps are a major feature and i'd put most of my landscaping bucks here as well as all my most impressive plants/or needy ones. right where they will get the attention they need or want. maybe you should contour your yard to match the landings on the stairway.
one thing to take into consideration is when and where you would like blooms? do you entertain a lot during the summer, but only in the back of the house? then most of the summer your front can be green with annual accents. if you want to stun people with a winter holidy display, you whould plan plantings that make that possible.

you've seen a designer, it's winter. so spend your time planning. develop a master plan that you can do over 3-5-10 years. when cash is handy you can work on major projects, when its not you do little things. the 5 yards of mulch idea is a good one. it will make things more uniform-- like a canvas ready to be worked on rather than chaos. and any organic mulch will help improve the the soil

diggerb

i like your idea, diggerb2, of wildness transitioning into a "tamed" area. The landscape designer came over for a preliminary look the other day and suggested something similar. She also suggested nestling very large rocks in a natural way around the steps, to sink them visually into the landscape, and then planting among them. Really liked this suggestion. I thought she really listened to my desire to keep the modern flavor of the steps but naturalize them somehow, because the house exterior in future will be renovated to become more modern and less cottagey-looking. It'll be interesting to see what a pro can do!

Still the most difficult part is going from the concepts and visions that are great and wonderful to executing the desired result on the ground. Was the original concept and vision not appealing? My guess is that it was or you would have never gone forward.

My question is "what makes the next vision more likely to be successful?". I'm not saying that it won't be, but this is the area that needs to be looked at harder than the vision, based on the explanation of the original post. Concepts are easy. Plant lists are easier. Composition is more difficult and execution is sometimes the most difficult of all.

Originally, I was working with a person who was a landscaper, not a designer per se. He has contributed to my neighbor's garden for 17 years, and helped to make it a beautiful eccentric Japanese-inspired tropical English garden (if you get my drift).
Our modus operandi -- suggested by him, in response to me -- was, let's get rid of the asphalt, which you hate, and get some good soil in here, so something can grow. Let's remove these overgrown shrubs (such as "live" christmas trees bought from the grocery store that he remembered being planted in 1988....in the wrong place, at random). Then let's bring in some machines to level the space where the driveway terminates, so that it's easier to get out of the car. At that point, we will work together to decide on the what's and where's of plants.
It was a rather loose strategy, which I was comfortable with at that point. However, since I live far from any suppliers of sand and soil, the costs of trucking and equipment rental bogged down by endless rain pushed the budget over what I had set for the entire project, pretty much. At the point, I cut him loose, thinking that I could continue on my own. How hard could it be?
Laag, I find your comments interesting. Have you experienced or observed people "trying again" with lousy results? In answer to your post, there was no real vision the first time around, so it can only go up from here.
Are you a design pro? If so, I can relate, as an interior design pro, to having seen people labor on a project dear to their hearts that is ill-advised from the yardstick of MY aesthetic criteria (which, it could be argued, has been exposed to more and has been actively exercised so it could develop more).
Even on this forum I have seen (on a recent thread: can't remember what it was called and wouldn't want to "out" the poster) where there was impassioned, fascinating debate, and at the end the OP posted a pic of the "new and improved" result. To my eye, not much had been improved. But the poster felt, from the sounds of it, intensely gratified.
However, you scare me a little bit, Laag....as a novice gardener I wouldn't expect that the execution would be immensely difficult. Depressing to think that a lovely plan on paper could be spoiled in the brown-thumb hands of the wrong person.

Landscape design is not rocket science. Most people can participate in some form of sports, dance or do a bit of music, cook, or public speaking. Not many of us can do any of it at the professional level. Add landscape design to this list.

So if we can't do something really well, does this mean we should get someone else to do it? If that kind of concept were applied to sex, mankind might have died out long ago. I say if you like doing something, do it! And if it doesn't turn out as well as another could have done, so what.

If you have any interest in doing landscape design, doesn't it make sense to give it a try before you hire the pro? Cause after the pro is done it's a pretty good bet that any change you make will detract rather than improve.

There are a lot of good reasons stated in this thread for getting a pro to do the design. Just wanted to look at the other side of the coin.

collaway, your comment about "modern flavor" rang a bell with me.

Out at the big box store they have a huge bunch of crates of polished marble, 1/2 inch by 1 ft square. It's down to $2 a sq ft and it is driving me mad. Modern won't fit at my house, but I keep thinking of walls and pools of polished marble. The concept that I have, were it applied to your lot might look something like this ...

{{gwi:54931}}

I don't mean to scare you. When I read your original post, it sounds like you had a vision near the bottom where you itemized 1-4. One and two sound like you had a comfortable direction. The post seemed like you worked together with the landscaper to form a "vision" and then started implementing it. It now sounds like it was much looser than that, so there is a difference and with that difference there is reason to believe that you can have better results.

You asked if I am a design professional. I am a registered landscape architect.

"However, you scare me a little bit, Laag....as a novice gardener I wouldn't expect that the execution would be immensely difficult. Depressing to think that a lovely plan on paper could be spoiled in the brown-thumb hands of the wrong person."

Implementation of landscape plans is actually highly variable. A layout plan of plant placement may not be that way so much, but you have a lot more in the mix than plant placement. You have topographic changes which brings a third dimension that spurs off a number of other issues. Sticking to just the aesthetic parts of those issues, you have the steps, terracing, retaining walls, and how the elevations affect how the plants visually interact (which is very different than if they are in a flat plan). A very good design can be drawn that takes all of this into account. But having that good design does not get you out of the woods just yet.

The execution is very dependent on the ability of the person to layout the plan. It is much more difficult to do on varying terrain. That is not really easy for people who do it all of the time and is quite difficult for someone who has never done it. That is an area where a good plan can be horribly compromised in the implementation.

Let's say that both the design is good and the layout is done accurately. Now we have the sculpting of the terrain to deal with. This is not easily drawn on a small scale plan with contour lines and very difficult for inexperienced people to convert from lines on a piece of paper to the actual contour of the ground, so a lot may be left up to the person doing the work to try and make it work. Let's say that is done well.

Now you have the actual construction of the steps. You may have some well drawn construction details that show you what needs to be done, but a lot of garden designer's are not experienced in drawing up construction details and the added ability, time, and liability would drive the design cost up. But let's say the designer has provided good construction details. You still need the skill set to build them. Some things are fairly simple to do such as forming and pouring concrete. But putting together a stone wall takes more than being able to read a construction detail. It takes real skill. It is true that a not all walls have to be masonry masterpieces, but there is a point where rustic crosses the line to crude. Crude will detract from the intent of the plan. Let's say that the skill set to build the walls and steps are good.

Now we can move toward planting. A #5 Nikko Blue Hydrangea might be called for on the plan. If you call three nurseries and have them each ship you one, will they all be the same? I can tell you that it is unlikely that they will be based on my own experience. This means that selection of a nursery can impact the implementation. Let's say you have found a good nursery.

Now, plants are living things and they are handled at nurseries. This means there are variations from one plant to another. Someone has to know which plants are the healthiest, the right shape, and otherwise the best choice for this particular job. This does not mean that any other #5 Nikko Blue is not going to work, but it does mean that it adds a quality variation in implementing the plan. Let's say that we are able to do this very well.

Our land form is shaped, steps and walls are well laid out and well crafted, and our beautiful plants are on site. Now there is the digging of the holes. Some will make them bigger and some will make them smaller. Some will amend and some won't. Some will amend with xyz and some with abc. Some will bury them 2/3 and then water them in and finish burying them after the water subsides. Others won't water them in at all.

So, yes, implementation of a plan can take a great plan and turn it into a lousy landscape. ... or not.

Right....I do get that landscape design isn't simple. When as a decorator I buy an armchair for a client, its beauty doesn't depend on the conditions involved when it was installed in the room. It will not perform differently at different times of the year. I'm not furnishing a room that exists on more than one plane.
However, if I get the "bones" right, you should later be able to see through to the room's elemental beauty even if it becomes neglected or filled with junk.
I love the pools and marble concept, pls8xx. I'm a sucker for clean, smooth "modern", and this reminds me of a beautiful hotel in Asia. I live in a verdant coastal rainforest, though, where green unruliness pops out all over. I will try to do "modern" somehow slipped in subtly into my woodland setting.

An asian influence? I can see that. Are not koi ponds asian?. Does all "modern" have a touch of oriental?

I love the overgrown jungle look myself. A flat open space in a jungle can be stunning.

Sorry about that plan view I put up. It's common for me to think in 3 dimensions and draw in the plan view. I forget that some don't get form from a plan. The raised area in front of the deck entrance would look something like this ...

{{gwi:54932}}

I'd like to update my original posting from December 2006 but have since switched to Mac. Can anyone recommend a free photo compression program? I can't seem to find anything.
thanks.

Hi. I'm new here--one of those on the receiving end of the great advice and knowledge doled out, so I'm always happy when I can contribute.

Can you upload your photos to flickr or photo bucket? They will compress for you...and then you can copy and paste the link given under "properties" with the html code img src to embed the photos into the post. (For better and precise instructions on how to embed the photos, do a search on "photo.")

hth

Great--I didn't know Photobucket would do it for me.
I believe last time I uploaded onto Photobucket the photos were still too large, and a helpful reader shrunk them for me.
Maybe things have changed since 2006, so I'll give it a go.
Thanks!