Well, perhaps you can think of other costs. My labor and time are investments and costs to me, too. The quality and yield of my final product matter to me; earning or pay $1/hr vs. $50/hr. These are also costs even if the priorities may differ by individual. Perhaps you didn't look at the thousands of pictures from hydroponicsonline.com or any of the sites I referenced above; it's a lot to go through. These are also low cost DIY designs or combination designs ranging from small and large planters to commercial growers; thus, the wastes (of fertilizer and water) created alluded by you do not apply in all situations and the minor differences are relative secondary to availability of raw materials and individual needs and goals. Both self-watering and hydroponic crops grow faster requiring smaller areas than conventional growing method, principles which The Dark Method adopts, because there is less waste. There isn't anything unique or new about The Dark Method that hasn't been practiced that I can see unless you can delineate them for me. And if small size is the measure of success or achievement by your standard, Hydroponicsonline uses 16 oz plastic drinking cups as growers and uses recycled soda bottles (and bleach bottles) as well. His sequential pictures are marked by dates (or he showed plant progress and notated the dates - that is art and science and business). The site shows real size tomatoes and strawberries. He shows growers from club members and his associations with local universities. He shares both his successes and failures. The multiple models from Rooftop Gardens with results that have been duplicated and documented by others are flexible enough would appeal to a large diverse groups of people. I'm not saying these two sources are the definitive sources for alternate container growers or that their growers are perfect without problems. I offered them because I happened to have looked at them and because I don't see what is unique about The Dark Method than the principles that have been used by others. Moreover, if I were an artist and a visionary, I would be open to give credit to those who influenced my art, compare and contrast (without being defensive) the pros and cons of different models and techniques when people ask questions to show the depth my knowledge and expertise, and adopt and learn from the successes and failures of others to improve my art form. I'm all for recycling, and I share and appreciate hearing your inventions and your desire to get diverse people inspired to grow things on a budget and more easily. I am sure The Dark Gardening Method works, but I personally would (as I get older and time is running out :) - spend the time and money building a more permanent low cost growing system by learning from those who have succeeded with documented appreciable results. Similar to you, the fruits of my labor or vision may not be the predominant consideration as costs and functional aesthetics, but yield and quality do count in relation to my investment in time and labor when I do a project in the final analysis. Being an artist and a computer person you are, it should be very simple for you. Instead of hitting people with incoherent introduction of your system haphazardly (and you answering the same questions) while turning others off, if you build an organized website with logical explanations of your system and progress pictures of your crops this year, you just have to offer a link to your website. I think even more people would be interest and there will be less skeptics to work with. When your site can explain your grower and progress clearly and simply, you and others wouldn't have to be asked to repeat the basics of your system. Lastly, I would like to ask five questions about your system (started with one but they kept growing): 1) How can one repot in midseason or reuse the grower for the next season without causing damage to the upper and lower plastic bottles if the bottles are glue shut. 2) What growing medium (or % mix) did you find work best with The Dark Method? 3) What have you grown successfully with the method? 4) Why 7 stalks of corn per bottle and not 1,3, or 12? 5) Why is it important to stress low water use? Exceptional low water use would indicate slow growth to me. Do the harvests fall w/in the expected schedule? Maybe these can be on your future FAQ page.

Haaa,ahh Justaguy from the first youve always been the barb in my comfortable garden chair. But as Ive said from the first I didnt learn gardening in school but out in the field. So I didnt learn all the "horticultural" terms you speak of. So I try to use my "common" terms as best as I can and dont mind trying to explain further. Last time I checked when I water a plant the water doesn't move through an ice cream machine. What on earth are you going on about? Now please Justaguy what else does a plant do. As I say before one of the skills Ive been lucky enough to learn was as a Master Candy maker. I wrote about it before, remember? So lets talk about the plant/machine part. Everybody knows what you get from an ice cream maker from the front. But very few people ever get to see the back and the workings that go into making that tasty treat. There are tubes (roots) back there. You have tubes/roots for the cream/nutrients. Tubes/roots for the flavoring and so on. Theres a parts for cooling/underside of leaf or warming/upperside of leaf up. Theres parts for injecting air and energy/sunlight to make the whole thing work. In the machine world youd get a box with everything ready to go. In the plant world you get a box/seed. In the machine world you get a couple of containers youd roll up to the machine and connect tubes to them. In the seed world it grows roots to make its own connections. Of course in the machine world you get many different flavors from the same machine but in the plant world you get a variety of seeds. Oh, I forgot to mention water. Silly of me since its the main ingredients for both. In fact just like ice cream my mix melts/compaction just the same. I only know you as the guy who grows under performing plants in soda bottles who thinks his plants are the cat's meow. Sorry, but you can't grow good sized onions in a 16 oz cup because a good sized onion is larger than the cup is wide. Now thats not being truthful. When have I ever bragged about anything. It's not in my nature. I understand that you might not be able too but I post pictures of what I grow. Anybody can look them up right here or check ChristianWararlock on Photobucket, you showed me how to do that. Check back with me in September, itll give you bragging rights for the year if it doesnt work. And besides what does the width of the cup have to do with the size of the Onion? Thats just being judgmental. Didnt someone post picture here of pumpkins with Mickey mouse ears and square watermelons. And for some more judgmental stuff. Please, for the love of Zeus, Stargate Atlantis or Mickey Mouse Clubhouse start speaking in horticultural or at least human terminology so somebody can understand what you are going on about. You might actually have something to say worth listening to, but in the last few years of your posting I am unaware of anyone actually understanding what you are trying to say other than 'grow plants in recycled pop bottles and maybe pee on them.' Im aware of people understanding. Thats here too. And Justaguy common on here your letting me off way to easy. Nothing about electron valance, 4 more ways to cause movement of water thru medium. And your right the words in bold are why I keep posting Just a point of interet in all those years I've never seen you post a picture?

Hi all. Kind of new to the forum but I've been enjoying and using the tips. Thanks! My cheap containers: scrap plywood [free from a friend] screwed together into a 4'* 2' box to use for a raised bed; flea market galvanized tin containers, various shapes and sizes, drilled holes for drainage, most expensive one was $5 for a good size one; old bureau, recycled into a potting bench, used the leftover drawers to make a flat for bunching onions, added an unused window screen on the bottom so I could use it on the deck; tires from my mechanic [free, he was happy to get rid of them since they charge him to dispose], used to make a composter and planters; freecycled white plastic barrel, cut into 8" slices for raised bed, planted peas in them; flea market wire fencing [$5 for 50'] made a cage for planting potatoes out of 10'[about 3' diameter]. My neighbor never recycles anything so I've managed to get all kinds of pots from her, she finally got sick of me taking stuff out of her trash and now saves them for me!

Alice, your containers all look great, so big and full, and healthy! I tried making container combos out of annuals that I wintersowed, but I'm still waiting for blooms on some of them. They don't look near as filled in as yours do. I haven't had any luck with Nasturtiums either. Two years in a row, they have germinated just fine, and then just sit there forever, never growing, then they finally just wither away. I love the Coleus with the African daisies. Do you know which kind it is? The Petunias with the Sweet Potato Vine really stand out, and so does that red Verbena with the darker Sweet Potato Vine. Great job! You have a good eye for container combos. I thought about posting a couple of mine, but mine look pretty wimpy compared to yours! Thanks for sharing! Bonnie BTW, the Cosmidium has buds on it and should start blooming any day now. I'll post a picture of it on the "Family Tree" thread when it does.