There will always be naysayers wherever you go. Ask him, "Exactly why do you say that?" His answer will at least tell you if he knows his stuff (he doesn't, or he wouldn't be jumping to such conclusions). Either way though, I would find his inference that you/I/others are stupid annoying.

Al

retiredprof..
Sorry to hear about your shopping exp.

It really doesn't make any sense, when they had what you needed and it was still a sale for them!
I used to work retail.. and it makes me crazy how no one cares about the customer anymore, or doing their jobs well.

I really like to mess with people like that when they get under my skin.
I'd do like Al says. :) Play 20 questions. ;)

I hope you can find an easier source.

I came across a gravel yard that has what I need for grit, but the guy treated me like I was putting him out, and in reality, i was doing him a favor... I haven't bought it yet. lol..
Best wishes with your plantings. :)

JoJo

The popular bagged potting soils net the manufacturers and the industry exactly what they want... profit. But that profit comes at the expense of the health of our plants... which works out well for other areas of the industry, because people will buy more plants, and more pots to put them in, and more potting soil, and more of everything else the industry packages and says is the new best thing.

In the interest of convenience, and out of pure ignorance of the facts... which isn't a bad thing, but can be detrimental... people will plunk down oodles of hard earned money on the recommendations of an industry that's only interested in profit.

And when the bigger picture is observed closely, it's clear that all industries operate with the same intent... to separate us from our money, using any method necessary. It's called greed. It's a huge problem in today's world. It's not new, but it's much more widespread today, and I think it will be the single most contributing factor to the downfall of the human race.

So, of course the guy selling bagged potting soil is going to have an attitude about custom mixed mediums, and he's going to lie to you or give you unsound advice in order to get you to buy what he's selling. Or... the other possibility is that he's simply not knowledgeable about what he sells or why anyone would want to mix their own mediums.

It's very annoying, though... what ever happened to "the customer is always right"? What happened to treating the customer well, and trying to help him truly find what he needs? I guess the customer just doesn't rate that high any longer. What an upside down world we live in.

In my personal experience, I've run into more than one clerk that was simply ignorant about the products they sold, and was kind of interested when I explained why I wanted the items I was asking for.

Ignorance isn't a bad thing... it means simply not having the knowledge. To remain ignorant in the face of good factual information... now, that's a different story.

Get used to it... we live in a different world that's changing quickly... and not necessarily in a good way. But don't worry too much... there are still small pockets of us nonconformists around! And we're still trying to spread the good word! :-)

I wanna be called a deconformist or postconformist .... for once having conformed to the idea that commercially prepared soils are my sole option, and then eventually rejecting that conformity! ;o)

Al

I'm with you guys! :)
No more bagged mixes!
Post, Non, de.. all sound good.

Jodi~
Well said! the retail world now a days is awful!
"""the customer is always right"? ""
Sad, but this is long gone it seems.

I worked retail for years, and was always willing to work with the customers.

I hate shopping now!!
And I drive my mom nuts when she goes, because I don't put up with poor service. LOL!
I've been known to speak my mind. (part of that tarnished halo, lol)

I think when someone comes across a retailer like retiredprof did, they should do as Al suggested. :)

Have a great day guys!
JoJo

I know what you mean, JoJo... I'm a little embarrassing to shop with, myself! I, too, have been known to open my mouth and demand the service I'm supposed to get.

In fact, I just received an envelope from Quaker Oats containing some decent coupons... I had written to them complaining about the nasty changes they've recently applied to their multi-pack oatmeal that I got at Sam's Club. They call it "New! Heartier Texture!", but it's really just hulls and chaff mixed with the oats. It's disgusting! Even their packaging got cheaper.

I'm continually amazed by what corporations will stoop to in order to gain a bigger bottom line. In today's greedy world, we have to look out for ourselves... because no one else will.

Nonconformist, different, unique, liberal minded... call me what you will, but I refuse to give in and fall in line behind the other sheep. I like ex-conformist.

'Ex-conformist' is good .....

How about the Dove brand soap that now breaks into pieces if you drop it in the shower. Smooth, eh?

Sorry for the OT chatter, RP. Yell at me/us if you want us to c&d.

Al

Tapla,

Time to make your own soap. I have not done it yet, I want to try some next year.

Was it the owner of the nursery, or the hired help?

It's true what they say about how difficult it is to get good help these days, and the help often does not do or say what the owner would say.

I've had a lot of experience trying to get help from clerks who think their entire day should be devoted to avoiding as much work as possible. I've seen them turn and run when a customer starts in their direction.

If the boss wasn't there, the clerk might try to talk you out of buying heavy bags that he would have to get off of a stack and carry to your car.

I can, for sure, make better planting mix for a lot less money than the commercial mixes. The commercial guys use too much peat moss (because it is cheap, I suspect).

The gritty mix isn't cheap to make, but I only use it for high value plants that are going to be living in that pot. It might not be cheaper than peat moss, but it is cheaper than losing that plant.

The gritty mix really doesn't cost that much when you think about how long it will last. :)

I was having to replace comercial mixes every season, and they really didn't last me the whole season on top of that!
Our season here is about 9-10 months long.

HomeDepot is good for having clerks turn and run. I love to chase them down, and make them work. he he..
JoJo

The garden center is upset for a very good reason. Try to put yourself in there shoes and being told your profit is about to be less, as you walk away empty bag of soil handed imagine how they feel not knowing who you might of talked to while " shopping " the KNOWLEDGEABLE well known store with a "reputation" while providing professional services and products.

I sometimes hear/see them as there more then willing to waste more time trying to make someone feel guilty for not purchasing what they have then the time it takes to get what they/you want them to sell.

A Non conformist news flash: They ( the garden place you went to) has a reputation of not having Gypsum, pine fines and what ever else you where looking for on hand for you or any of there other/all shoppers either.

Conformity: This word (to me) means, I'm not allowed to think and or act for myself.
Conformity is NOT what this country is/was based on USA is/was based on rebellion toward a king.

Seeming as commercial soils where not here in our beginning and as the gardeners/farmers/growers of crops and other things did well enough with out them back then, I tend to think we can grow things just as well (IMO even better) with out commercial soils now.

My attitude is this
I don't need the garden centers of any it is they who need me I don't hesitate in this reminder to the ones I visit.

The guy at the garden center trying to sell you bagged potting soil isn't the one seeing any of the profit... that spot is held by upper corporate management and shareholders, if the company is a public one. The clerks, store personnel, and even supervisors and store managers, rarely see a piece of the action... they're paid hourly or on a salary basis.

Quite honestly, it's been a long time since I've run into any garden center personnel who are actually knowledgeable about their products... heck, quite a few clerks don't even know what they sell or where it's located within the store!

But that's what happens when the jobs are low paying, sans benefits, and many are on a part time basis... they're not much more than glorified stock persons and cashiers.

There's a lot to be said for quality... versus quantity. If a soil lasts for a few seasons, then it's less expensive in the long run than the soil that requires replacing on a regular basis. I'd like a medium to last for more than a few months, before it decomposes and compacts to the point that it's no longer healthy for plant roots, and they're suffocating in it.

It's actually been quite a while since I've had to buy any medium ingredients. I picked up what I needed last year, and I still have bags of items I haven't used. I didn't need to buy anything this past season.

I can reuse some of the ingredients, too... granite doesn't break down, and the other ingredients I'm using take forever to decompose to the point of needing replacement.

When I say "conformist", I'm speaking about it in a gardening capacity, as it relates to gardening... I'm not conforming to the generally accepted idea that the bagged gunk at the garden center is the way to go. I'm making certain that factual information is my guide.

I'm still chiseling some of my plants out of Miracle Die. I have a partial bag left of it, I can't bring myself to plant anything in it. When I look at it now, I'm like this is almost all peat. I just add some Miracle Die when I want some peat in a mix, which is rarely now, I'd rather just leave the fines in turface, which seems to work well for most things. I'm still a fan of peat / compost for some landscape plants that love it, i.e. my Hosta, but Hosta are very happy with as much water as they can get (actually some of my best growing hosta this summer were submerged in water in aerated buckets).

I have to agree that most places these days can't be bothered to do anything that requires thinking outside the box. As others have pointed out there is defiantly a financial motive behind this. They want our plants to die.

Seems to me like places used to special order things for customers that they didn't stock, now it seems practically unheard of.

Jamie

If you keep a customer happy, word gets out. Make them mad, that gets out too. :) Simple as that! Regardless of how big or small their needs.

My dad owned a Auto repair shop from 1983-2005. I can't tell you how many times someone came in for a small quick fix. Wiper blades and such. Many a time he'd fix it quick and not charge.

They'd leave happy and tell a friend who needed major work.

He never advertised anywhere, and had more work than he could handle till the day he sold it.

The clerk should have helped retiredprof. by offering why he felt the customer should go with a bagged mix and let the customer decide. Simple.

Like Al stated.. start asking why. I love to play that game. Espicially if they had a snotty attitude! he he.

Jodi~
your so right in the fact that they know nothing about their jobs!
Worse yet, they don't care!!

Some time back we asked a clerk at HD if they had bird house kits for children to build and paint. The clerk took us to what he thought it was. The item he pointed out was the boards to put in the eves of the house to keep birds out! Scary!!

""There's a lot to be said for quality... versus quantity. If a soil lasts for a few seasons, then it's less expensive in the long run than the soil that requires replacing on a regular basis. I'd like a medium to last for more than a few months, before it decomposes and compacts to the point that it's no longer healthy for plant roots, and they're suffocating in it.""

So true Jodi~
Espicially in an are like mine! Our growing season is about 9 or 10 months long for annuals and simple stuff. Bagged mixes just don't hold up~ Not to mention the cost of stuff I have to throw away that didn't make it!

This season I showed my mom and a friend how great my plants are doing, using Al's mixes. And next spring the garden centers will have 2 less people buying the bagged mixes. :)

What can I say.. were several of the many who are tired of throwing away $$!

JoJo

"I'm still chiseling some of my plants out of Miracle Die."

LOL! I, myself, have a few potted plants that may require removal with the aid of a jackhammer! I'm still in the process of switching over my outdoor container plants.

You know... in all honesty... Miracle Gro potting mixes used to be different... in that they were consistent, and one of the better bagged products a person could buy. They've slipped downhill rather fast, however. They're poorly mixed, not consistent in quality or in what's used in them. In short, they're very crappy.

We buy bagged mixes in order to repot bands of rooted rose cuttings into gallon containers for sale, and I've noticed a huge slip in quality and consistency, and as a result, we stopped buying Miracle Gro and began buying from a greenhouse supply outfit. I couldn't afford to pot everything we sell in a custom mix.

For my own personal plants, I use nothing but my own version of Al's Mix.

Your real close JO JO they do know something at the HD stores (it isn't much though). I once asked a HD employee the following Q while rescuing some cactus from them Do you know if there is any peat moss in the dessert ?
The amazing response was...... No I don't think there would be either peat comes from a swamp sir.
Then why does the store provide MG cactus soil that has peat moss in it ?
The tricky part is how I got this person to go get the bag 5 aisles away while I stood at the register PRIOR to asking the peat moss Q and then it went like this.

Another tougher Q. Why are the 3 inch TC pots more than the 4 inch TC pots After the I dunno response I went into how I want them to price match the competition, it took a while to convince them to price match agree but eventually I got the pots in hand (7 TC's 4 inch)for nothing cause I know a place that gives there TC pots away with the purchase of a plant.

As I walked out I then asked, Aren't you suppose to tell me to have a good day ? Your right about the part that they don't care, they only want the money.

The best(worst) potting mix I've seen recently is some stuff that's made entirely of white peat, selling for 28 dollars for two cubic feet. The writing on the back is pure marketing nonsense, and this mix will break down in no time at all. How my friend got bamboozled into paying that much for it I have no idea.

Like some people upthread here, I use the gritty mix for long-term plantings because of how long each batch takes to make and bagged mixes that last for three years or so for everything else, but I tell everyone about the gritty mix and explain how wonderful it is every chance I get.

You should not paint all employees of Home Depot or Lowes, with the same brush. You will find SOME of their staff are hired who are either retired or on disability from the industry who actually know what they are doing. In one case for me I went to three stores and ended up buying from one 300 miles away, because this employee knew what he was selling. Al

A few years ago, everyone was oohing and ahhing over cocopeat; it was supposed to be this great "green" medium source that didn't break down, yadda yadda... I'm not sure why, but I jumped on the bandwagon... and soon after, lost several bulbs to rot. Cocopeat has a tendency to hold a lot of moisture around the rootball... and it also compacts very quickly. It's susceptible to molds, and some very interesting science projects grew in my pots.

That's about the time I went searching for some real information based in science, and found Al's writings! What a relief it is to finally have the workable information I need!

Every industry seems to back fad products now and then, and the gardening industry is no different... a new fad signals a new revenue source. Unfortunately, many are detrimental to the folks who get sucked into buying them.

What passes for potting mediums at the store is just horrendous. I'd much rather go at it from the perspective of what's healthier for my plants, and what will allow me to disturb the root systems the least. Quality and longevity count for a lot when it comes to long term plantings. Convenience is for... well... others.

I just mixed up a new batch of Al's Mix last night and repotted a few bulbs that desperately needed it!

In our general vicinity, there is a Lowe's, Builder's Square, Menard's, Home Depot, and a few other large stores that carry gardening products. I have yet to find one clerk that knows what's on the shelves, where it's located within the store, knows what the various items are used for, and wants to help answer questions other than the extremely simplified ones.

We're on our own, folks! If we don't arm ourselves with factual information, we don't stand a chance! :-)

I don't think of it as "painting" I think of it as each employee having a reflection of the company they work for as a whole , where one speaks and acts for all as all speak and act for one.

These big box stores at corporate levels are big on promoting there so called TEAM building ideas to all there employees.
Fact is at any big box store shopping experience the majority of people find that the. It's more common for the big box store to get strike outs than it is for them to get a hit. It's the unknowing consumer who knows none the better. AKA the victim of ignorance from a colored apron wearer.
Also meaning if the big box store employees didn't want to be painted then why did they adorn themselves with there colored aprons knowing of others who display such little pride.