Couldn't agree more about paying for schools. The same applies to any expenditure for the common good. Transport, environment and health system. We are not islands.

" If you own a house where you currently live with a sales value of $400,000, it might be unaffordable to move to an area where a comparable home is $800,000. "

Yes, cost of living makes a big difference and would be something I would consider, but not the specifics of taxes. Maybe I'm just weird that way.

" He also had attended Catholic elementary school for no fee, part of some agreement many years ago. I don’t know if that agreement is still in place, do you? "

Unfortunately, yes. Catholic schools are paid for by provincial taxes, a law that goes back to the Confederation, I think as a reward for nationalizing support from minority Catholics. I think it's horribly unfair, and a 150 year old law isn't a good enough reason to keep it .

Edited to change "constitution" to "confederation". I've been paying too much attention to US news :( Canada's "constitution" (Charter of Rights and Freedoms) is much younger.

Yes absolutely the cost of living is a huge factor in where one chooses to retire! Taxes are one part of that equasion. Those that live among family and have put down deep roots probably don't weigh the same factors. Many moved to a place due to a job. Often this is far from 'home', family, where they grew up. Once retirement arrives there is not the incentive to stay if offspring left the area for similar reasons, there is no family near. Yes there is much to be said about taxes, how the money is spent, how fically responsible a specific entity is with said taxes but that should be taken up in a different thread. All states need to pay for their infrastructure. How they do it through income tax, property tax, sales taxes differs from state to state. It's ok to want your hard earned money to be spent well.

We moved from a very expensive property tax state to a much lower one. We also got 10 times the acreage for our horses, which was a major factor. My husband now runs a 22 horse boarding farm, which gives him a “job” now that he is retired. (Read: stays out of my hair).
We calculated that our savings in property taxes alone was $225,000 over these last 10 years. That’s huge when you’re retired. The price of gas is considerably lower too. So yes, I think people take a lot into consideration.
As for weather, we left the Northeast for the mid South. One snow event a year is nice but we exchanged it for brutal heat in the summer. Again, worth the price.
The two houses are almost the exact same size, but our new one is mostly one level. A good exchange.

The bad part? We left family and old friends behind. I like to travel to them (this weekend being an example) and it gets me back to “the old places”, and gives me a break. But not seeing them regularly is the only hard part of this move.

“Unless finances make affordability a primary concern, I don't think taxes or cost of living differences should be major factors in deciding where to live.”

That’s a big ”unless” there. I’d imagine that the majority of your friends and former colleagues would be considered financially secure. Your state and mine rank among the highest for people to leave for financial reasons.

As you know, like you I’m in a high COL area. All my life I watched people’s grandparents moving away, partly for tax and COL. Then their parents. Now it’s starting with my peers. From the day I bought it, I never saw my current house as my forever house, based solely on taxes.

Yes, most people I know are not living paycheck to paycheck. Many are financially secure, though some only marginally so. For example, a couple we know are both public school teachers. They have good benefits and pensions, but teacher salaries here are relatively low. They own a modest home in a safe, modest neighborhood but they were never able to move beyond their "starter home". And they likely couldn't afford to buy it today, given price increases at a greater rate than income increases since their purchase.

" All my life I watched people’s grandparents moving away, partly for tax and COL. Then their parents. Now it’s starting with my peers. "

This must be a regional difference, food. I've never seen any of that. Not my own or "people's" parents or grandparents, not peers. People stay here (other than what I cited, people I know who moved here from elsewhere for job reasons and then later left).

Edit to add - I suspect one factor that allows people of modest means to remain after retirement is the cap on property tax increases. Infamous Proposition 13, enacted ages ago, limits the basic property tax rate to 1% of value (which starts with the purchase price) and limits value increases to 2% per year. As with real estate values in most populated, economically thriving areas, annual value increases are much greater than 2% per year. Plus, if you buy a new primary residence and sell or convert the former one, you can transfer your low Prop 13 historical base to the new property.

Well we also have a weather factor that you don’t have. People seem to like the winters here less as they get older. Many who can afford it take up two residences and snowbird. And spend enough time down south so that they can claim it their primary. For tax reasons.

Taxes would not influence my choices with moving. First would be a location I prefer (very limited :-)), proximity to family and friends and necessary amenities. We have no state income tax, a statewide sales tax and property taxes can be deferred or reduced for age. I consider them a minor issue.

Another couple we know fit into my pattern and your's too. They were both originally from a large East Coast city. Transferred to my area, lived here 25 years, and retired. Decided to move back to where they came from - they have a kid now living in their hometown. They bought an apartment in the city there and have also bought a house in Florida. They need to spend less than 184 days per year in NY state to remain non-residents not subject to tax. The days of arrival and departure each count as full days, so a three day visit can add up to 5 days.

What they've found - drum roll - is that they hate the weather of BOTH of their two new locations. Especially Florida. The critters too. They say they'd underestimated the effect of the decades they'd spent here with mild weather, low humidity, and fewer critters. They're unhappy with how much time they have to spend in Florida each year, it's longer than they'd like. Even though both often went there for summer vacations during their childhoods.

We all have different experiences and like different things.

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) - If I had no state income tax and my real estate tax could be deferred, I might consider them a minor issue as well. I’d imagine anyone who qualifies for RE tax deferment would have to consider taxes, if trying to move somewhere like here where the majority of yoir income gets taxes over 5% and $15K real estate taxes are fairly average and couldn’t be deferred.

∧∧∧ I agree. The situation will be different dependant on location and local tax structure. One big reason I choose to remain pretty close to where I am now.

And that’s the question posed here, would taxes influence your choice.

A common mantra we used to tell clients was that business decisions should never be made solely for tax reasons, unless the tax differences were VERY significant and the location consequences were either neutral or easily managed with acceptable added costs. For personal decisions, I'd subsitute that the elements that living location decisions should be based on should include personal preferences and emotional/social factors, and not solely for tax reasons if at all if the alternatives are affordable.

I gave each of my kids the same bit of advice as they began their adult lives - with the assumption that the city or town where they were living was a given, they should have a goal of paying more tax each year than they did the year before. If you think just a few moments of what the reasons would be that underlie achieving the suggestion, it'll be clear what I was saying.

The only reason to have paying more taxes as a goal, is if it means your income is going up. I’m sure that’s what you’re getting at. But a huge swath of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, and many more are close enough that a modest increase in expendatures would be uncomfortable. Those who don’t have to concern themselves with taxes are either rich, poor, or blessed. Then there’s the rest of everyone.

" it means your income is going up. "

Yes

" a modest increase in expendatures would be uncomfortable. "

Yes

But not Yes as to the rest of what you said.

People who are just scraping by or not, (likely unfortunately a majority or more) often do not need to concern themselves with tax or financial planning. Or moving to Florida to retire, they may not be able to retire. Nor have idle time to spend doing things like conversing on an internet forum, though the socio/economic range of people here may be wide.

My kids, as I presume those of most here, were college educated and job-ready when they set out in the adult world. That's who the advice was given to.

People who are just scraping by or not....often do not need to concern themselves with tax or financial planning. Or moving to Florida to retire, they may not be able to retire. Nor have idle time to spend doing things like conversing on an internet forum.

Once again Elmer, you are expressing a very personal perspective that does not necessarily reflect reality. A huge percentage of the population retires on just SSI or very modest retirement savings....but they DO retire. And can spend plenty of their time on internet forums if they wish.

The topic is whether taxes are a relevant moving factor, and the discussion was started by someone who's retired and has flexibility. That was the trend of the discussion and nature of comments made by a number of people. Those who retire just on social security and no savings at all I'd think by definition weren't intended to be part of the conversation, that was what I said. It's not a socio-economic assessment of American spending patterns or needs by the bulk of the population.

I do express personal perspectives. So do you. So does everyone else.

That’s true, Elmer. She did ask us about us, not about others. So for me my personal answer is yes. I never anticipated it being reasonable to pay our RE taxes through retirement. As it turns out, we could. But it’s not how I’d choose to spend my money, so yes, taxes have affected my choice even though our finances weren’t dependent on it.

But I think that’s a very fortunate position to be in. And I see enough discussions about local affordability to know taxes are very much on others’ minds.

Yes, a typical Elmeresque comment. What exactly do you know about paying high real estate taxes and how that can affect personal finances, that anyone else wouldn’t know?

I do express personal perspectives. So do you. So does everyone else.

But you express your perspective as a fact or a forgone conclusion applicable to everyone. Virtually everyone else expresses their perspective as it relates specifically to them....not universally. I can't speak for anyone else......neither can you. Big difference.

You do realize that it's your phrasing/terminology that gets folks' dander up, don't you? And with such a tone of condescention as well.

It was kind of a pleasant, peaceful week until now.

We moved about 9 years ago from a high property tax town with great schools to one about 8 miles away with significantly lower taxes. That didn't factor into the decision but was a nice bonus. We wanted an over 55 community with a smaller single family home, where the landscaping and snow removal was handled by the HOA and that didn't exist in our town at the time.

" As your name isn't CPAgal, or financial planning gal, I understand it isn't in yours "

What a presumptive and stupid statement. You have no idea what's in her wheelhouse, you only know what alias she chose to use. For that matter, we don't know what's in your wheelhouse either, only what you choose to tell us is there.

“Next time you're in my area, I'll ask my wife to introduce you to her friend.”

Elmer, in my travels I’ve encountered innumerable people far more knowledgeable than me on various topics. Doctors, lawyers, scientists, engineers, mechanics, financial people of various types, artists, you name it. I’m sure many if not most here could say the same. I can tell you exactly zero times one of these experts ”chuckled“ at me for a wrong statement and without trying to steer me right, at least at a high level. Since you said this is not the first time you’ve had such an encounter with this woman, who by your own account was simply asking for your input, I strongly suspect her response to you was reactionary. I’m sure she and I could laugh over some shared stories. I’m equally sure you’ve done her a favor, with your request of your wife.

Circling back to TV’s original question: ” If you're looking to move, do you research the tax implications of your new location?”. I now have a different and shorter answer than my original & that’s Yes, I do. Rereading the rest of TV’s post, she also prefaced her question with this statement “If a place has the things I want,…” That makes me assume the rest of the research I mentioned in my original post has already been done. So, if the new location checks off all the other many boxes on my list but the taxes are higher I would move there with an updated plan for my annual budget to manage the higher taxes. If I needed help setting up that budget a meeting with the Pros I pay to advise me on such things would also be on my list.

I chuckled because I'd had a similar experience with her before.

I'm sure the veracity of this will be doubted, as so often happens, but I'll provide a little more. My wife mostly can't stomach this woman but she feels sorry for her. She was kicked off a tennis team and her later requests to rejoin the team were denied because the other women on the team didn't like having her around. She's lost most of her friends. She's divorced and is mostly estraged from two adult sons who, by the accounts my wife hears, are well adjusted and successful professionals. Although they live in the area, she only sees her grandkids a few times a year. Her daughter in law wants nothing to do with her and should the grandkid visit set up by her son involve her going to their house, the daugher in law leaves in advance to avoid her. The woman can't understand why no one likes her.

Kind of like a Tasmanian Devil - a fierce personality and untrainable even if raised in captivity. Several years ago, because of incessant requests from her (and from my wife who was tired of hearing from her about it), I agreed to spend a few hours looking over a very serious matter with relatively large amounts involved that she was involved with. My impression was that she had created a mess typical of someone who didn't know what they were doing and that she needed serious help getting the situation untangled. I told her that there was needless complexity, several traps that could spring under certain circumstances and that she needed to get it sorted out. I gave her the names/numbers of 3 lawyers I knew who could help her. Her reaction was similar to what she said last week, something to the effect of "I'm not surprised that the elaborate structure I designed and put in place is something more sophisticated than you're accustomed to seeing. Thanks for your time but your comments aren't helpful. "

Stop engaging so we can continue with the topic.

For me, taxes would be one factor, but probably not the deciding factor unless the difference was substantial. I can see why people research it, though. Depending on your income, property value, retirement situation, or whether you're self-employed, moving from one state to another can mean thousands of dollars a year in differences between income tax, property tax, sales tax, vehicle taxes, etc.

That said, I'd personally put things like job opportunities, housing costs, quality of life, climate, access to activities, and being near friends or family ahead of small differences in tax rates. A place having what I want would generally matter more than saving a percent or two on taxes.

I think a lot of it comes down to whether someone sees taxes as a minor expense or as a major part of their overall cost of living.

To be honest, this is completely foreign territory to me, because taxes are pretty well uniform from state to state in Oz. So it’s a non-issue for Aussies moving from state to state. (And yay! my DD and her little family are moving back to my state at the end of next month! More GS time 🩷🩷🩷)

I also can’t get my head around the idea of local area taxes being used to fund education (with the subsequence of poorly funded education in areas with a low tax base or where voters who dont give a toss about education ”because they don’t have children in schools” or want to keep their taxes low voting down taxes for education). Education should be a state/national priority as an educated population makes for a more successful society. I also don’t have a problem with funding going to religious schools- I think there shoud be a baseline payment per student regardless of where they’re going to school. Remember that some of the children in schools today are the ones who will be looking after you in your old age- wouldn’t you want them to be educated?

Yes, we are factoring taxes on investments, which can differ by state, when considering retiring. This isn't a major concern, but will be considered.

Right now I live in a Chicago suburb, and, like the rest of the state of Illinois, most of my property taxes go to my local public schools. Mine are rated well, and while my own kids are no longer in public schools, higher taxes support my property value. That's just the way it is. Our schools tend to be receptive to the communities that pay for them.

I used to take for granted my municipal services, too, until last winter when I traveled to Grand Rapids, MI, for a wedding. It had snowed heavily the day prior, and many of the roads had not been plowed. The church where the wedding was held was located in a neighborhood where the roads were not cleared. Even some of the downtown roads were still a mess. I was surprised--it's Michigan, after all. That would never happen here--snow plows are ready at the first snowflake.

I was going to ask about the road services in Grand Rapids, but everyone I knew was an out-of-town guest. (If anyone here has insight, I'd be interested in knowing.)

My property taxes also support a number of other services, so I cannot complain much. But if I were to move, I would consider how well a municipality is run.

As an added note, a good friend who's worked in healthcare in Chicago for a number of years moved to a southern state. She has noted that if she ever had a serious health concern, she would move back to Chicago. That's her perspective from her observations. There are a number of issues I would consider if/when I move. Taxes are just part of the picture.

@Feathers11 - I agree that moving to a place with good health care is another factor in making that decision. My niece, who is a doctor, “approved” our move because we are near what she considers a good academic hospital. (We are outside of the area of the hospital by 45 miles, but that didn’t matter to her.) Being able to get a doctor seems to be a problem in many American cities these days. I have friends in other states who say it takes months to get an appointment with a specialist (sometimes an internist) and that definitely affects your quality of life.
I always assumed my property taxes were contributing to the school system where I resided. I didn’t have my own children but certainly want to support a good education for every child. It’s just troubling that the difference in cost (i.e. my property taxes) from my current house and former house is soooo large.

I also can’t get my head around the idea of local area taxes being used to fund education

Yes, Colleen, it does result in disparities, unfortunately. If I could change the way we fund education, I would. In the meantime, we play the game--families around here move "for the schools." I lived in another U.S. state earlier in my life, and my property taxes were a fraction of what they are now. But that area was growing quickly, and the infrastructure could not keep up. Roads, utilities, and other basics were lacking. And the schools seemed to be the last consideration, and so when we moved to Chicago and planned to start a family, property taxes and school systems were considerations. (Congratulations on having your family move closer!)

RedRyder, my employment is contract-based, so I get my health insurance through the Illinois marketplace. My access to providers here in Chicagoland are excellent, and the recent cuts to the ACA have not impacted my premiums (for a variety of reasons, but mostly because of our state's insurance oversight). My SO is a veteran who also has private insurance. So, he's been spoiled because we have good VAs here, and he has additional resources through his private insurance. We're going to be hard-pressed to find what we have here, elsewhere. In retirement, we will likely keep a residence here for healthcare purposes.

If I were to give any young homebuyer advice, it would be to NOT escrow your property taxes into your mortgage (assuming you're financing with a mortgage loan). You want to get that property tax bill, review it, and understand where your taxes are going.

I am going through this right now. I recently retired, my spouse will be retiring in about 2 years. We've spent most of our professional careers in New York. However once he retires, we are completely untethered. Neither one of us has any family left in New York, and we don't have children either.

Like FOAS, we know many people who have left NY once they retired. The 2 most often cited reasons are taxes and weather. (Food - I'm sure you've heard the term "half back" - the people who first move to Florida and then end up coming half the way back...LOL...)

I spent some time visiting with a friend who bought a nice little house in a very nice little community outside of Las Vegas. We were sitting outside by her pool chatting and having a lovely time, and all of a sudden I realized that I could....breathe. It had been more than 24 hours since I last took any allergy medicine, and yet I wasn't a clogged swollen itchy mess.

Do you have any idea how nice it is to be able to breathe?! I haven't been able to breathe for like 30 years. Again, LOL.

I have no clue where we may land. I have always loved the southwest, and Nevada seems retiree-tax friendly. All I know is we're definitely selling the New York house in roughly 2 years. Beyond that...we're considering all kinds of options - and our complete tax picture is certainly one of them.

Ally De, I kind of envy your upcoming (at least sometime not too far away) move and your place in life where you can assess all the important things you need to consider. That goes for others who have done the same.

I moved to San Francisco at 22, moved to Baltimore at 33 and then back home to Ohio at 47 to help with aging parents. I never gave any thought to the financial reasons for making any of those moves. Being single, no kids, I only had to worry about myself. I could never have afforded to own a house in San Francisco but in Baltimore, I was able to get a little house. I've only ever had "jobs" and not a career, so I never had a lot of money. But I have had the best experiences and friends a person could ask for. And in moving back home was a great decision too. I'm glad I did all my "living elsewhere" in my younger days since I am back among family and glad to be here.

Thank was very kind murraysmom, thank you. :-) I'm enjoying researching various places.

I'm trying to come up with a short list of places to try a longer stay at an airbnb. New Mexico? Lots of retirees seem to love Albuquerque. So we have to at least swing through there...

For reasons which I can't explain, Arizona doesn't appeal to me at all - yet I love Nevada. Makes no sense, but it is what it is.

I LOVE tennis, so Indian Wells (Palm Springs area) calls to me. Not sure that California gets me any tax advantages though, ha ha. Except the NY house is too darn big and whatever we buy will be much smaller, so I can make up some ground there.

I also keep forgetting about health care. Which is good news in a way, because both of us are really healthy. But I suspect that may eventually change. Apparently Vegas isn't a fantastic choice for health care? My friend says she's not having any trouble finding competent care, but she's also still in really good health too.

Anyway, this really is fun for me. Neither of us have any close family left, so the world is our oyster. I keep saying, watch us travel all over the place, and then end up just buying a smaller house in New York....

As I’ve been reading these posts about moving & specifically those that include moving after retirement I’ve been remembering all the factors that were included in my husband’s and my retirement move planning. We took ten years to pick where we wanted to move. Sounds like a long time but when both of you work at demanding jobs, short jaunt travel opportunities are somewhat limited. But, what I want to say is that it just struck me that were I doing that plannning today, I’d add another item to my list of things to consider. That item is the political climate of first, the state, and second, the city / town. Not kidding. No matter your beliefs, I don’t think I’m the only one who would factor that point in to their decision in today’s world.

We are less than three years from retirement. We have taken into consideration: property taxes and income taxes, insurance (home/auto) rates, health expenses, utility rates, and cost of food at grocery stores.

Plan A is selling everything and heading to Wales (my husband is a British citizen). Property (council) and income tax will be significantly reduced; cost of food is much, much lower; utility rates are lower; insurance premiums on cars would be about 10% of what we pay in our current state (MO), and housing costs are extremely reasonable.

Plan B is staying here, but moving to a single-level home. We will not qualify for the property tax abatement because our income will be too much. Healthcare will be expensive, and so will personal property tax (a delightful Missouri expense every year), home/auto insurance, and food.

Plan C is selling everything and moving to Ireland (where my husband can live without visa requirements because he's British). I'll get my Irish citizenship after five years of living there, which will give me an EU passport. Husband will do the same, then we can move anywhere in Europe. Costs are higher in Ireland than in the UK, but still lower than the USA.

Plan D is moving to the US Southeast to a state that is retiree-friendly, with regard to income taxes and availability of good healthcare.

So yeah - we do consider taxes (and other costs).

I agree on that, KW.

I’m living in the best place in the world 🤠(IMO of course) and have never once considered of moving. However, there are rumblings, once again, of Alberta separating from Canada and becoming a country. If it ever came to be, which is extremely unlikely, I’d move to another province so fast.

When DH and I were last house-hunting, we considered the nearby village where I had grown up, and where my parents still lived. I knew my parents paid crazy property taxes for their large property, but even the tax a normal house (smaller than we live in now) on a smaller lot (smaller than we live on now) was as high as what we pay now. And for what? At least some residents had to contract for their own trash service (the village had an agreement with the company residents could use), there was one school, eventually a village hall, (they did have a small police department), eventually a park, but the village was not part of the local library system, shared emergency services with two neighboring towns. May people had wells and septic. There was a shopping center, and a couple of office parks including some national headquarters. I never really examined their tax bill to see where the money was going, but the small school is excellent.

The thing is, there is another nearby village that is similar, but not as upscale, in structures, state of properties, road condition, services. and status. The businesses are mostly small, light manufacturing or services. And the small school gets all the money.

So, part of the tax consideration when house hunting might be not just what are you paying in property tax, but how is it being spent?

If thefe is no property tax, is the sales tax high? School fees? Senior services fees? Recreation fees? Contract your own municipal services? Income tax? Inheritance tax?

My brother is in an interesting position: he is retired, no dependents, no ties, nicely funded. He can live anywhere in the world. The last couple of years, he has spent a couple of months or more in various places, checking them out, and nowhere is ”perfect” for him.

I agree that "perfect" is often an illusion, whether it is about where to live, or what house to buy, or heck even who to marry. 🤣 For me, I am enjoying the journey and I love evaluating pros/cons - so this where to live hunt is a as much fun as I have had in ages. Who doesn't love picking out where to visit next?!

Taxes absolutely play into it. But it is more nuanced than that. I am willing to pay more if the area is worth it, in my esteemed opinion of course. 🤣

Just to add to anyone’s research - we moved from NY to TN (Nashville area) and I was unaware that allergies in the northeast becomes asthma in TN. The trees and pollen are very different and not user-friendly to some new arrivals. Luckily, I have a good doctor but it has made a difference in my life, for sure.

In PA every school district pays a different level of school tax. What is truly bothersom is that the lowest ranking school districts have the highest tax rates. You get to pay a premium for living in a district with failing schools.

I pay more in property tax/school tax in PA than I did when I lived in CA, but my overall cost of living is much lower. Utilites, insuance, car registration, gas prices, food and the cost of owning / buying a home off set the higher taxes.

@Jennifer Hogan - I would have never guessed that property and school taxes in PA were MORE than CA! Very surprising. The rest of the costs being lower would be expected.

If you've lived in your home in CA, taxes can be quite low. They are only reassessed when the property is sold, and that will be based on the sales price. Our property taxes doubled when we moved from CA to PA 10 years ago. We had been in the CA house for 18 years.

In California, if you sell a house whose property tax value has been protected by Proposition 13 to very limited annual increases, and buy another house, you can transfer the Prop 13 protected value amount from the house sold to the house purchased.

Elmer, I remember Prop 13. My husband & I were still in military & had just been transferred from Omaha to Bay Area. Prop 13 had just passed - too bad for us as it was of no help. We had sold our first home we bought in NE & struggled to find a home we could both afford & wanted to live in somewhere within a commutable distance from both our work places in the Bay area where it was a definite sellers market & our taxes were assessed on our purchase price. This made our taxes much higher than neighbors who’d been in their homes prior to Prop 13. This was mid 70’s. We also didn’t benefit from the Prop 13 provisions when we sold that first Bay area home & bought another - no protected value for us to transfer This was mid 80’s.

I didn't consider taxes when moving, but I already lived in a high property tax area so didn't really think anything of it.

Here in MI there's talk of either reducing or completely eliminating property taxes. Yes that would be wonderful because I pay $$$, but unless that revenue is generated through other means the proposals aren't viable -- not if we want to continue to have public services available at the same level. The rhetoric sounds great on the surface, but I venture that a lot of the public just doesn't think through the implications. Per usual :op

KW, it’s still the case for a first time homebuyer in California or the buyer of a second home that the property tax value starts at the purchase price. Prop 13 only affects increases from that point forward. Prop 13 was enacted in the late 1970s.

The transfer of a low prop tax value to a replacement primary residence has only been around during the 2020s.