TV, that is a very sad situation. It must be difficult for your sister as well. Thanks for the well written difference. I appreciate you.

I have several hoarder stories. It is a disease that is not ”cured” or even treated by just throwing out /rehoming/repurposing their stuff. You just know that on ”Hoarders” the people just go back to whatever. I hear the psychologist talking and wonder where the heck did they get their training? Whatever the source of the hoarding, it isn’t just accumulating stuff. It affects all aspects of their lives, finances, personal relationships, nutrition, etc.

So sad, I have watched several of those hoarding shows on youtube. People come in and try to help the people let go of stiff. The after shows a cleaned up house but really do you think it stays that way? Without seeking help (mental) and maybe even if they get it, can they be cured?

" can they be cured? "

Like most mental and behavioural issues, it's more treatment than a cure. Someone with clinical depression, PTSD, anorexia, OCD, etc - they can live well, but their disease still needs managing, just like a physical disease like diabetes.

I think I just might be on the teetering brink of being a hoarder. In my case/defense, I come generationally legitimate causes: my paternal grandfather was one to some extent, my father and brother definitely inherited the tendency and sadly, I admit to (just a wee bit) of some of it myself.

I find it very difficult to toss out any clean well-made boxes of any dimension as they may be useful someday -- and they very often are. I have a vast "collection" of wrapping papers/tissue/ribbons/gift bags which I should give away as those fill half of a spare bedroom. Also useful, but far more than I really need to keep as I enter my 80s! I inherited some wonderful antique china sets (complete with finger bowls and serving dishes) from grandmothers and great-grandparents. I don't use any of that, but, you know, sentimental things!

Old keys, extra screws, unused kitchen stuff...

Didn't have much more than the basics growing up, parents grew up during the Great Depression, and being old-school Yankees, used things within an inch of the life of whatever it was. Frugality does not mean stinginess, it meant being careful & wise.

Anyone else remember that ball of string "too short to be saved"?? !!!

My eldest brother hoarded. He filled the house with junk and made heaps and piles outside under tarps that rotted away and his hoards turned to garbage. He was always like that. If he had something stashed somewhere and you ask if you could have it it suddenly became priceless and valuable beyond anything. Or you could just take it and he wouldn't even notice which is technically stealing of course. He bought worn out boat motors and such stuff planning on fixing them though he was no mechanic.

Now DH has hoarding tendencies. He keeps boxes and paper from all the stuff he orders. He buys things and never uses them but he is also just lazy about putting things in the trash. I have trained him over the years to actually take the trash out. He brings things home that he finds on the road when he rides his bike. That stuff mostly goes to Goodwill except the tools. But hats, coats, yoga pants, gloves, all go to charity. I have my own issues....books, weaving and spinning stuff but these are valuable things that must be kept.

We've been house-hunting in Wales, and have seen several "hoarding houses" on the market. They are disgusting, and many just need to be pulled down.

Yes. Hubby has 100's of empty pill bottles, He hauls home junk from everyones garbage that is put to the street. He will not get rid of anything but buys six if he needs one.

" It must be difficult for your sister as well. "

Her home is chaotic, which I know depresses her. But, love is strange.

I keep 2 miscelanous stuff totes in my garage one for previous year, one for current year.

I keep odd screws or parts, keys or connectors that I find and throw them in the tote. At the end of a year, if I haven't come across the item that it belonged to I figure that I am not going to find it. Each year in January I toss the contents from the previous year box and move the current year to previous year and start new with the current year.

Jennifer Hogan, I like that very much. What a great way to start a new year. Thanks for that idea.

I have a junk drawer in my kitchen that I could make much better use of!!

I was at the thrift store recently and they put my purchase in a box, not a bag. It worked better than a bag. So now in addition to the bags I drop off there, I'll drop off some boxes.

As to my purchase, it was not clutter, it was a couple of things that I actually use on a daily basis.

Patriciea, maybe you can get the wrapping g material, bubble wrap, etc to the thrift store?

FWIW, I often wonder whether hoarding disorders are related to our affluence as a culture - so much advertising and 'buy, buy, buy' messaging and merchandise all around all the time. Shopping is a pastime for so many people nowadays. My late aunt loved to hit the sale racks at stores and would buy tons of things like candy, cards, tchochkes - many of which never left her house. Near the end, she had just a small area free to live in.

This thread has been an interesting read - some posts are humorous while some tell a really sad story. In my home I’m the clutter buster & my husband is the saver of ’might be useful’ stuff. Seems like that might be the perfect combination of pairs of people living together - one of each type! One devious trick I employ is to stealthily toss an item or two of something I’m certain we don’t need and of which we have more than one of same. I feel lighter and he never notices. We also each have a space the other will never touch. His is his desk top; mine is the file cabinet & deep drawers in desk. I have a schedule for purging /cleaning these files & drawers. I don’t like saving paper copies of anything for long.

I think hoarding has been around a while, not a modern affliction related to ”buy” culture culture.

There is a difference between holding on to things, and the hoarding that really is a hygiene, health, and safety issue. I once told a relative that they should at least clear a path enough for the paramedics to get from the door to the bedroom with a gurney, or at least a sling to carry them out. They knew they needed to do it, but simply could not do it.

Re: hoarding boxes. I have a small stack in the attic, and this reminds me that they need to be thrown out. I used to wrap gifts of clothing in boxes with colorful wrapping paper. Now gifts given are wrapped in colorful tissue paper and put in a big Happy Birthday gift bag.

I am funny about cardboard boxes - mice love cardboard. Lived too close to fields to want to store many boxes in my home.

" I often wonder whether hoarding disorders are related to our affluence as a culture - so much advertising and 'buy, buy, buy " Everything I've ever heard would say this is a no. It's not about accumulating STUFF to have more/the most it's about not letting go, loss, memories. It's a way to cotrol and keep the past.

I used to run a business where we went to 6 different pet stores each weekend (3 on Saturday, 3 on Sunday). The staff was paid minimum wage. I ran these clinics every weekend for over 20 years and most of my staff was female. Not a concious choice, just more females applied than males.

I hired a lot of struggling single women with kids who worked this as a second job, I hired some women who were stay at home moms with husbands who brought home decent money and didn't need the job, but liked getting out of the house, and teenagers or young people who were interested in learning how to be vet techs - looking for job experience.

It seemed that the women who were really struggling would buy a Starbucks coffee and run into the cheep clothing stores and buy a new shirt (or 2) on sale and buy a lunch at a fast food place, where the women who had more were much more careful with their spending. May buy a Starbucks every few weeks, but not every time they went out. May find something at one of the centers that they really liked, but it was once every 2 months or less. They usually brought a lunch along and ate that instead of buying the fast food. The teenagers were a mix - usually spending more on fast food, but not so much on cheep clothing and stuff.

I often wondered why they needed to buy 50+ shirts a year. I didn't own that many shirts and had bought them over years and years.

I don't care for coffee, but I wondered if Starbucks was really worth an hour of your wages when you were having a hard time paying your rent.

I do think a lot of younger people never question the expectation that they should be drinking Starbucks and eating Chick-fil-A daily, along with having an iPhone and expensive sneakers. Many of the ones I work with are like that. They're not from rich families either.

To be fair, there are any number of older people like that too..

I recognize the desire to treat yourself which causes so many to squander money on silly to me things. But I am sure that hoarding really isnt about anything like that. Part of it is often just slovenly lazyness where they dont throw things out and it just gets out of hand until the effort to clean up is too much but somehow people feel safer when they are surrounded by stuff. I can see that in those I have known who suffer. My oldest brother was greedy and really thought he was keeping valuable things for himself. I have no idea why he would do this but the world was out to take advantage of him and take things no one wanted from him. He had no concept of sharing. I suspect this is a common issue. You or I would not want their garbage but to them it is valuable.

I have to go through paperwork which I ought to be dealing with when it comes in but dont always do as I dont have the energy. Next thing you know I have heaps of paper I have to go through. It could look like hoarding. So I do cut people some space.

" Part of it is often just slovenly lazyness "

No, there's nothing slovenly or lazy about the compulsion to hoard, it's a mental disorder, not a character flaw. It's a choice not to get rid of things, not a lack of time or effort.

It seems pretty obvious that some don't realize hoarding isn't about how collecting things affects others. It's about how it affects the individual who is living amongst the items.

They do care about others outside of their hoard, but cannot process what it is that causes the hoard. It is a coping mechanism. Much like drugs and alcohol, it's a coping mechanism that causes horrible cycles. And they cannot get out of it. No matter how much anyone shames them. They're ashamed, assuredly. That ain't it.

Just because you have a lot of what others think is junk, is NOT hoarding. Hoarding is piles of stuff that only have narrow trails throughout the house.

I do not like the kitchens that are white, sterile, and have nothing but a bowl of lemons on the counter. The rest of their house looks like that!

Mine is country, most things that I use all the time out on the counter.

There are people who fill their space with trash because they cant bother to throw it out. They do not value their trash which would make it not hoarding. So you can clean up after them with no repercussions but they will continue to throw trash on the floor. my DH is a combination. He is working on it though. He simply was not taught to clean up after himself. Now I was born a neat freak. It is also an OCD sort of thing. People make fun of you for being too neat so I became secretly neat. All my drawers were perfectly tidy and my closet very exact and so forth. Today I dont necessarily fold everything just so and I do not put my shoes away. everything no longer has its place because I live with someone who will use my places for any old thing and it is better to blend.

" There are people who fill their space with trash because they cant bother to throw it out. "

Very true - but that's not hoarding.

Which is what I said above. Still if you have a hoarder who also doent toss their trash you have a larger problem.

Amylou, I know a family, of which my BF is a member, who buy "cash cars" and then drive them until they can no longer be repaired. Instead of selling them for salvage, they just park them around the edge of the property or in the woods, etc. The excuse my BF once gave me is that the cars aren't worth anything but the PARTS are. So they keep them "just in case" another vehicle needs a part. Makes sense in a way, but I couldn't stand to be surrounded by rusting vehicles.

I know that's not your circumstance, as your vehicles are definitely driveable and your SO just likes cars. It just reminded me of my BF and her family.

From Elmer’s disappeared post:

“Just because you have a lot of what others think is junk, is NOT hoarding.”

What is it then?

It’s usually called collecting - but the key difference isn’t really about what you have, it’s about how it affects your life.

I think this is a good article explaining the differences between hoarding, clutter, collecting and squalor. Squalor can be with or without a corespnding hoarding disorder.

https://hoarding.iocdf.org/about-hoarding/is-it-hoarding-clutter-collecting-or-squalor/

I have a brother who has always been extremely OCD. He is the opposite of a Hoarder. I brought him lunch one day and when I came in he told me that he only had one plate, one knife, one spoon and one fork, so he wasn't sure how we were going to eat lunch together. I told him not to worry, my food was finger food and I could use the bag as my plate.

His closet had 5 white t-shirts, 5 colored t-shirts, 5 short sleeved shirts (1 white, 2 ecru, 2 blue), 5 long sleeved shirts (1 white, 2 ecru, 2 blue), 5 sweatshirts and 5 sweaters. 4 pairs of jeans, 4 pairs of sweat pants and 4 pairs of slacks. Every hanger was 1" apart. (my numbers may not be exact - but you get the idea.)

When other people say they are minimalists I often think - "you don't know the definition of the word".

Although my brother is well liked by others and seems very normal to the rest of the outside world, his compulsive need for organization and cleanliness created barriers. He got married 3 times, but all three ended in divorce. No one could live with him. His wives were kind of lucky in that they didn't need to clean. He would do it again even if they did clean.

He is currently living in a nursing home (failing health), and has a tough time with having a roommate and how poorly the laundry is done or the sinks and shower are cleaned. . .

He has reorganized the activity room closets and shelves, straightens the chairs at all the tables after meals, will pull weeds in the courtyard that the gardener's missed . . .

Thankfully his eyesight is also kind of bad, so he doesn't see everything that may send him over the edge if he could see better.

Jennifer, thanks so much for that article. I feel vindicated as a collector. I do have some clutter that I need to work on and do things as needed. I always appreciate the threat of visitors coming to step it up and get things done. :)

I'm sorry about your brother. That life feels so constricting to me but if it is his normal then it is what it is.

@murraysmom Zone 6a OH - There are times when life just gets ahead of us. When my sister downsized I helped her rehome a bunch of her belongings. When she passed away her kids took what they wanted, moved their dad to a nursing home (it was the right move) and left everything else for me to pack and get rid of. I packed everything up and stuck it in my garage. It took me over a year to get everything sorted and rehomed. While that was going on and continuing today, I have been helping a friend who is waiting for low cost senior housing near me to become available. She will be moving from CA to PA. I have collected furniture and warmer clothing and bedding and kitchen stuff for the past 2 years so that she will have nice things when she does move and won't have to move as much across the country. Just heard that she will have an apartment on April 15! Last month my other sister informed me that she is downsizing. I am helping her with rehoming items that she is getting rid of. I have 12 totes of things in my foyer. When I get all that stuff gone I may find time to go through some of my own things. My goal is to maintain at clutter and not fall into squalor!

You are a good sister and a good friend

I was a collector of 19th-century furniture and smalls. No glassware or anything Victorian. Every piece in my house is from that period, except for upholstered pieces, appliances, and everyday stuff. We sleep on antique beds, store clothes in antique chests, armoires, wardrobes, and linen presses. Small tables are end tables, and we dine on two farm tables, one in the dining room, one in the kitchen. Our big TVs sit on woodboxes and bucketbenches. The smaller kitchen one is behind closed doors. The corner cupboard holds bowls and dishes.

That's the collection that is very functional and pleasant to look at. The hoarding part is I have 30 old quilts, many old baskets, and pantry boxes. But there are wide pathways throughout every room in my house, and the only thing you'll trip over is one of the cats.

@lily316 - aren’t all quilters hoarders of fat quarters and other fabric? 😁 Once those items are used to create a quilt they migrate to the quilt collector category.

I can barely sew a button on, so I've never made anything but a skirt in Home Ec in 7th grade, which took me the whole school year to finish. These quilts are mostly teeny tiny stitches and the artistic talents of the quilters are impressive. I know nothing about most of them, but two were from either side of my family, and my paternal grandmother, with bad vision, made a colorful pinwheel quilt. My aunt would point out fabrics that were her dresses as a child. Sad to think what becomes of things like this with family history, as both kids have no interest.

My mom crocheted afghans for every member of our family. She made several for me because I admired her work. :) She has been gone for 25 years and lately some of her afghans are coming back to me. Most were just put away because it's not a thing anymore to have one tossed over your couch to keep you warm in winter. I actually had a very beautiful go to another member who loved it so that worked out. But others I have donated. People in nursing homes, especially those without family, appreciate them. They are always cold. :)

“Sad to think what becomes of things like this with family history, as both kids have no interest.”

I think your kids’ view is more common these days than your view.

My kids feel that same way about stuff like ”family memorabilia” and I do too.

I am not a hoarder but I have about 40 folded boxes in my closet. Because I thought I would be moving i started collecting them to have ready. But since I bought my new car my condo fund is depleted. Going to recycle the boxes when I do spring cleaning.

Samkaren

Your resident dj

I live in an apartment building, and I think of hoarded items by their other name, "kindling." People die in fires where the firefighters can't get to them, and others lose their apartments because of how their neighbors lived.

I understand that hoarding springs from mental illness and is not garden variety greed. But I'm also a big believer in charity, and can't help but think that hanging onto excess when others have so little, is very uncharitable.

In New York City, there is a provision against hoarding called the Collyer Violation, named for the Collyer Brothers. Their story is astounding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collyer_brothers

"I understand that hoarding springs from mental illness"

Are you saying that the common "pack rat" and "I stock up so we don't run out" mindsets are forms of mental illness?

" Are you saying that the common "pack rat" and "I stock up so we don't run out" mindsets are forms of mental illness? "

It depends on why they are a pack rat, etc. The devil is always in the details.

Jupidupi, that's an interesting story about the Collyer brothers - what struck me first is how long it took them to find the second brother (whom it appears died first, leaving his blind brother alone).

I don't think Jupidupi is saying being a pack rat or stocking up on things to not run out isn't a form of mental illness. Maybe anxiety related or something. But hoarding definitely is a mental illness. Hoarding is written up in psychiatric journals and the American Psychiatric Association has studied it. When I researched it because of my cousin, the American Psychiatric Association notes they have not conclusively identified its cause.

Being a pack rat or stocking up on things so you don't run out could probably turn into hoarding if the right conditions exist or if the person has true hoarder characteristics. My cousin was way, way past the pack rat or stocking up on things so you don't run out. Her home was filled with filth and garbage, and smelled horribly of cat urine and feces. That's beyond a pack rat.

What a weird and interesting story about the Collyer brothers.

I almost wrote about this earlier, but MANY years ago a read a book that really stayed with me because I found it so fascinating, called "My Brother's Keeper" maybe in the late 1960's or early '70's. I thought of it many times over the years - and especially when reality shows started highlighting hoarding - which I never watched and always felt like they were likely voyeuristic and exploitive of vulnerable, mentally ill people. A few times I tried to find it at the library in different places we lived, but I didn't know the author and there are other books with that title.
Then, one day when we were staying at a tiny little resort in the San Juan Islands that had a darling little lending library that I loved poking through, I FOUND it! I reread it that week, struggled with my conscience about stealing it, or trading it for one I had brought. I didn't do either and I'm pretty sure I wrote down the author, but I never got a copy. It was fascinating and heartbreaking...not having siblings, I think made it even more fascinating to me - that relationship between them.
Seeing the mention of the Collyer brothers here, I suspect it was about them. I will have to see if I can find the book now that the internet makes all that so easy.
Edited to add a link to the book, I should have googled before I posted about it!
My Brother's Keeper

Oh geez - the mention of their mother being the catalyst for their sad endings reminded me of the bio about Dare Wright - her mother also made sure her children never were able to function 'normally'.

I haven’t read a bio about her but as a child I really wanted to like the Lonely Doll books. Pink gingham covers! But I found them a little sad, creepy, heartbreaking, like there was something lurking beneath the pink gingham, and I was too young to put a word to it. Later I learned a bit about her and, oh.

The bio is fascinating and rather sad - she was rather a tragic figure, very intelligent, beautiful and accomplished.

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Secret_Life_of_the_Lonely_Doll.html?id=RWzoQKUPjA8C

Apologies for the topic swerve 🙂