amylou....BTW My husband agrees with you...people should limit themselves to one meal...

I have attended many business meals. I too order something moderate. No one expects you to just order one side dish as your entire meal, unless of course that is all you want for whatever reason. But it is also not the time to order the most expensive choice either. There is a time and a place for everything, and a hosted meal is the time to show social graces.

I would order something I love from a restaurant I know, or something I always wanted to try from a restaurant I didn't usually order from. I would choose the higher end of moderately priced, but not something overly extravagant. And I would be effusive in expressing my appreciation for the offer and also of my enjoyment of what I ordered, so the host would know I did get something I really wanted and liked. If you loved your salad, I'd be sure he knows it's one of your favorite take out meals.

Of course, I always email him my sincere thanks.

Now, I was taught, as a matter of basic manners, that if someone else is treating you to a meal, you are to be aware of the prices, and order accordingly

I was taught this, too. I would not feel good about myself if I took advantage of someone else's generosity. And especially in the workplace, these choices can have an impact. I've taught my young adult kids not to be like your boss and coworker. That's just... yuk.

I would never think of taking advantage of someone’s good will and order something above and beyond an average-priced or maybe slightly above meal. Maybe a small dessert if I was in the mood. But never ever more than one portion of anything and certainly not 3 burgers or 2 desserts. I would be especially mindful of this in the workplace where future judgments might be made.

BTW, it’s nice to see you posting a floof topic again, Amylou.

Amylou I agree with you and your choice, although if you had wanted to splurge on a dessert that would be OK on my book. And your emailed thank you was nice and I'm sure helped him feel good about his gift. I can see why you value him, and I'm sure likewise he values you.

While not unethical since the treat is unspecified to order such mass amounts of food is vulgar. Tacky is a more modern name for it. I would not be tacky and Amylou you are being the height of proper. Nice people do not make pigs of themselves on someone else's dime. Of course you dont get arrested for not being nice.

patriciae

I am confused as to what "eat like an adult" means. I get myself a salad from Zaxby's for dinner a couple times a month.

Not in reference to your salad for lunch. If it's something you treat yourself to then it's still a treat for you. My mind was thinking more in line with the example of the date who orders just soup and crackers or chicken fingers at a nice steakhouse on a date with someone who is trying to make it special. Huge fail.

I'm a bit curious about the practicality as to how one eats a meal at work at the start of a shift. Are you going to be given a proper sit down meal break then? Or are you expected to eat an extra meal at your work station? And if you're busy does the meal end up being eaten sporadically in cold mouthfuls?

Just me, but I don't much like any delivered or take out food. It's not at its best and is often cold. If I had the choice I'd prefer a voucher or a cash bonus to be used at a proper restaurant for a freshly made meal eaten at leisure.

We do not get meal breaks. Or any other official break. We eat when we can, and work through it if necessary. We do have an oven and stove and microwave if things need to be reheated. And a full size fridge to store it in if we wish to eat it later. But I usually order a salad, which arrives cold and is delicious cold or room temp. I suppose I could have been more clear. I get MY meal delivered at the beginning of my shift, because I work nights. The day people get theirs at midday. Not unusual at all for me. I usually eat not long after I arrive anyway. Not too many places open in the middle of MY shift after all.....

All the departments here have natural downtime when nothing is going on. Not at the same time every shift. Just happens when it happens. And instead of a "time to lean time to clean" or other similar tyrannical and toxic philosophy that I have suffered under other employers, or a strict break schedule which seems childish and micromanagy to me, we kind of just go with the flow here. And its the best system I have ever worked under.

I'm like you, Amylou :-) I feel very uncomfortable going nuts on someone else's dime, yet am happy to treat others when it's my treat- though I do think that if someone ordered multiple meals and hogged out I would probably not offer to treat that person again. In the spirit of the gesture I would have what I considered to be a treat without going OTT.

When someone else is paying, yes, I'm mindful of what I'm ordering. Every year my husband attends a conference at a somewhat swanky resort. I go along to vacation while he works since we only have to pay for my airfare and non-dinner meals. Every night various vendors take us to dinner, in groups of maybe a dozen, where we are wined and dined and able to order anything we want from the menu. I can't believe the people who order items like a 5oz. wagyu ribeye for $220. One year someone ordered "for the table" an almost-$800 bottle of wine. (I usually go for a meal in the lower end of the range, under $50, which is inexpensive at these places.) Yes, I had a taste, and yes, it was delicious. It is nothing for the bill to be a few thousand dollars or more. Our hosts were very gracious, but I do wonder if they ever inwardly cringe.

I'm not a heavy eater and I'll usually order something in the mid-range of the entree options. The host will usually order some apps to share while waiting for the main course to be served.

I rarely order a dessert unless Tiramisu is an option. I can't turn it down!

This is probably why I prefer to do the treating because yes I would be considering the cost for someone else paying, I like getting what I like and very rarely consider cost when I am buying

I like your style, Amylou. Your co-workers who took advantage were surely noted for doing so. Not a good look!

I'm sorry the marketing VP doesn't just give you a little bonus. Paying for someone's takeout *to be eaten at work* seems a lot like 'marketing' to me!

When a new guy invited me out to dinner I always ordered from the lower end of a menu. I didn't usually know a guy's financial situation, and I'm not a big eater anyway. (You may not know, but back in the dark ages, the man always paid for meals.) Indeed, I believe that the person issuing an invitation should be expected to pay for the meal or event unless another arrangement is made clear at the time of the invitation.)

If I'm paying for someone's lunch or dinner, I order generously and urge my guest to do the same.

Labor laws require lunch breaks, as well as at least two other 10 minute breaks during the day. If your employer does not provide those, then it is breaking the law - at least in California, but I thought it was federal law.

Our lunch break was typically 30 minutes, but I opted to arrive at work 30 minutes early and then had one hour for lunch - and I went home, since my house was 4 minutes from work at the last place I worked

Amylou, you always have interesting stories.

When my kids take me out for a special occasion dinner, I never order from the top of the menu but a moderate priced meal and I don't drink alcohol and never have a dessert out . Longhorn did give me a free dessert for my birthday yesterday, and I had to take it home. But my daughter was at a retirement dinner for her close friend, and one woman had six martinis at this very expensive restaurant.

I have been mulling the opposite issue, of being expected to order something large and fancy because the host has taken you someplace to impress you. What if you dont eat steak or lobster or want huge heavy meals. I was taken to a speciality restaraunt once and the guy who took me was offended that I ate only a small portion of what he ordered for me. It was a much as I could eat. The food was delicious and I said so but I could not eat more. He was angry. Weird right?

patriciae

Your date ordered YOUR meal? That's what seems weird to me.

Food and eating can raise such complicated social issues and etiquette challenges, can't they?

One of my colleagues had gastric bypass surgery. He was only able to eat a few bites of anything before he got full. Business meals were always a somewhat tricky affair for him as people often feel compelled to offer commentary on how much someone is eating, or not eating as the case may be.

I've been a vegetarian for my entire adult life. I can't tell you how many times I've ended up having business meals in steak houses. Most are more than happy to make some sort of vegetarian offering, which I always try to work out politely out of sight of the rest of the table. (I would never make the person arranging for the meal feel badly about their restaurant choice.)

On the rare occasion the restaurant is unable to accommodate me, a nice salad along with a side dish of some sort has never failed me yet.

It was an ethnic restaurant Elmer and he had opinions on what the best choices were. I had none. Still I have to say because of his ethnic background he had control issues.

Can’t go wrong with mid-range.

One wonders about those who over-order or go for the price. Are they always trying to “ get one over?” in other parts of their life?

Sometimes, if I'm treating someone who I think might be overly concerned about ordering something too expensive, I will suggest we pick an appetizer to share, along with our meals. It ensures they aren't under ordering, it's sometimes fun to share something we both enjoy, or to try something different from the menu without committing to it as your main dish.

Still seems odd to me, patriciae.

I've had maybe somewhat similar experiences food wise though not social setting wise. There are a number of what I'll call "specialty" Chinese restaurants in my area. The menus with the special dishes are sometimes only written in Chinese because of the assumption that some dishes may not be of interest to those with Western tastes. Fair enough.

I've been taken to such places several times by individuals familiar with whatever particular style of the food was in the place, based on their own origins. Never has one of them said "I'll order for you". Instead, it was something along the lines of "let me read and describe to you some dishes I think you may find interesting, and you can choose a few to order".

It's polite and one thing to recognize that someone may have no knowledge or exposure to something of an unfamiliar ethnic or regional origin and offer to help. But it's quite different for the familiar person to decide on behalf of the other one without offering a choice of what dishes are on a list of offerings so that the other person can decide what they want to eat at that meal.

I can think, right off the top of my head, many different times I've gone to a restaurant as a guest with someone more familiar with their ethnic cuisine than me, where they ordered the food for the table. One Taiwanese friend, a Chinese friend who often treated a few of us when her Chinese parents came to visit, a Moroccan friend who did the same. They ordered things for us to try that many of us wouldn't have known what the dish was, some that were very popular in the regions they originated that they wanted to share with us. It's a wonderful way to share a meal.

I think a person offering to pay ought to be instructional and specific as to their expectations. The meal offered by a boss that's theirs vs the company's money are two different things. It would be unusual for a company not to put parameters on the lunch. I would probably go with what the company reimburses for working lunches. The idea that an employee would throw caution to the wind and spend gluttonously tells everyone the employees opinion of their responsibility to the company. In the situation offered I would not want to be the person whose lunch is the most expensive of the group. We all have our line and we all know people who don't have such a line. What do you think of them, and do you want other's thinking that about you?

Kevin and I went to a large Chinese restaurant in Monterey Park (AKA "Little Taipei" or the "Chinese Beverly Hills") that was famous for its dim sum, and the Korean friend who took us there (along with some of her Chinese friends) helped with the ordering, but there was no menu, and the food was brought out on carts. The bill was all in Chinese:

but she could read Chinese as well as Korean.

I frequently watch reruns of "Millionaire Matchmaker" with Patti Stanger, probably from about 2011 or so, and Patti often tells the men to offer to order food for their dates, and the women seem to like it when this happens. Patti has very antiquated sexist ideas when it comes to dating and relationships, and she says that the man should always plan the date and pay for it, along with all of the other stereotypical things that have been required of men in dating. Some women like this and some do not.

I am okay with someone else (who is paying) ordering for me, as long as they get my permission first and ask me whether I would like something or not.

I used to belong to an Indian online foodie group that had a huge number of members in Los Angeles, and we would take fields trips to Artesia (AKA "Little India"), and I appreciated having others order the food, as I pretty much liked everything at the Indian restaurants. However, the South Indian restaurants tended to have very spicy food, and they were the majority in Artesia.

Just to clear something up that seems to be a thought here....

This person is not my superior/supervisor in any way. We work WITH them, not for them. This department is in that unique position. We work with EVERYONE in various capacities, but none are our "bosses." He is just a nice man who is high enough up on the food chain to have access to do something nice for us as appreciation for the work we do with him.

Also, If a man told me what i would be eating on a date, he would be wearing it as i walked out the door. Big red flag!

Lars,

Google Translate in camera mode produced the following

Jade sharks fine and chicken eye dumpling

Shrimp Dumpling King

Jinhua fish paste and white cake

Seared kale with oyster sauce

Zhouhou beef briskit is easily powdered

honey beans and shrimp easy

shungeng dinner king

Etc.

It's a most useful tool when trying to read in a language one is unfamiliar with.

Sorry, couldn't immediately figure out how to post an image

" He is just a nice man who is high enough up on the food chain to have access to do something nice"

Amy, such words are not so specific. If he's high enough up the food chain to have access, and higher than you, he's in a senior position to your position. Maybe not your direct boss in a chain of command sense, but one of many across the company. Not a peer hierarchically. People in companies have "ranks" without having stripes on their sleeves or insignia on their collars as in the military. You can't do the gesture but he can. That's clear. .

Please explain to Amy how her company works, because obviously, you are more familiar with it than she. Oh, wait. Never mind.

Its ok. Elmer likes to make sure the low level minions stay in their place. He cannot help it. So happy that I do not have to remind any of the people I work WITH of their place, or of mine.

And I can and do offer lots of gestures, all year long to the people that work here and the drivers that provide us such a valuable service. I just do it out of my own pocket. And to be fair, I have no idea if the company buys us the food or if it is something he does out of his own pocket to be nice. He is the type to do that. I would know as I am that type as well.

" Elmer likes to make sure the low level minions stay in their place. "

Sorry you miss understood my comment. I took away from what you said that this guy has authority to spend company funds and is generous to others. You don't cant do that, so he's higher in the hierarchy without being someone you report to. It's not complicated.

I am confused as to why you felt the need to tell me that if not to point out his, in your opinion, superiority over me. I clarified his position because several people here seemed to think he was my boss or superior in some capacity, and that that fact should impact ones choices as far as ordering food is concerned. That was my reason for bringing it up. What was your reason to argue with me that he is better than me?

"It's not complicated." What's not complicated is avoiding commenting on things of which you know nothing! It's really easy!

" that he is better than me "

It isn't what I said. You were making a point about some significance that he wasn't in your chain of command and I wondered why that mattered.

olychick, you should first take your own advice before offering it to others.

I would order something perhaps more modest if it were a co-worker who had made the invitation than if it had been the boss.

I will also add, however, that when I have gone on business trips that the company paid for, I stayed in modest hotels and did not go to fancy restaurants - only ones that I would have gone to if I had been there on vacation and were paying for myself. If I were entertaining clients, it would be a bit different, but generally I met with vendors who would pay for meals for me, and I would go to whatever restaurants they wanted to take me to. One vendor took me to a hamburger restaurant (or some American style restaurant) on the first floor of the Empire State Building (Their office was in that building), and I did not especially like it, but I did not tell them that. The inexpensive hotel where I was staying had better food at the Lebanese coffee shop on their ground floor.

Back in my parents day it was considered normal for men to order meals for women. You can actually see this dynamic in some old movies.

My friend came from a very patriarchal culture. We had already run into the issue of door opening. That isn't why I allowed him to order my food. The restaurant was very basic and Im not sure there was a menu. He knew everyone and he knew the choices. My issue was that he expected me to eat more than I was comfortable eating.

patriciae

" Back in my parents day it was considered normal for men to order meals for women. "

I'm not sure this was a universal practice. If a man had tried to order food for my mother, the first violation would have occasioned a smile and a polite "no thanks". The second violation by the same person might have caused the menu to fly through the air and hit him.

I was more gently raised Elmer. Throwing things at people in restaurants would never do.

This is similar to the opening the door scenario...another issue with friend...in that it was difficult for men who were brought up to open doors for women to not get huffy when said female wanted to open her own door.

Etiquette changes of course.

I am reminded of a neighbor who used to do "favors" for me. She would feed my cats(for a fee) and look after my flock of ducks and geese for the eggs though I looked after not only the dog from time to time but one time her children for a week for nothing but she was there and very reliable so I would take her out to lunch from time to time as a thanks and she always wanted to go the same place and ordered the most expensive thing which was crab in a sauce poured over a toasted English muffin and would snarf it down and then complain bitterly that the portions were too small and not enough to "fill her up" which would make me smile as it made her sound like a gas tank but then I would have to be ashamed of my self for thinking so. And here I am telling people about it. Dear me.

patriciae

I have different routes I go. If it's my employer paying, I don't even look at the sticker. It's so rare, so I don't feel any remorse in doing so. Used to be, when I went out on a date, I would pick something from each category and then would copy whatever they were getting, e.g. soup, sandwich, entree... When I'm going out with my friends, I do my best to keep it reined in in case one of them wants to pick up the check. I have one friend who decides it all up front, and she'll say I saw the special let's split it! Which is just fine with me. I'm pretty go with the flow when it comes to going out to eat.

I just spent several days with my adult child on vacation, and I let her order anything and everything she wanted, and even took her to the grocery store and let her buy anything and everything she wanted to take back with her since she was driving. Right after she picked up the crab and the shrimp... I was beginning to regret it, but I realized it was a one time opportunity for her, and I let her go hog wild.

Come come, patricia, it was a figurative comment, not one to take literally.

I'm old enough to have found it not uncommon for a man to *offer* to order for me. I also remember waiters providing one menu listing prices to the man/host and another to me, as the guest.

Exactly Elmer

We are I believe discussing food ordering etiquette in any case. Letting the person who is paying decide what to get is one way to get around the awkward how much they want or can afford to spend. Once you get your ballpark you could politely offer a substitution. I didnt mind in the least paying for the crab on English muffins. It was her idea of expensive but complaining about it was sort of tacky. She knew what she was getting.

Well 2973, what I would suggest is that someone who's so bewildered about what to do in that situation that they need to have a hint on how to proceed, they should just order tea and say they're not hungry or starting a diet.

This business about the man ordering for the woman brought up a distant memory. Not a first hand one for me but something I remember about food ordering etiquette for couples out for dinner at a nicer restaurant. Maybe I saw this in old movies but it I wouldn’t be surprised if my parents did this. Woman makes her selection from menu & tells the guy what she wants. Server comes to take order & guy places order saying ”the lady will have xxxx & I’ll have xxx”. Seems like it was on a par with man holding a door for woman & letting her pass through it before he did. Of course, door holding entry etiquette is complicated - man goes first up the stairs & but maybe not an escalator - the better to catch her if she falls backward! But, he goes first through a revolving door - the better strength to push it with. Not sure about the elevator - but - I digress - this thread is about ordering food on someone else’s dime.

Elmer is just making a joke. We are not to take his comments seriously remember. It is figurative.

When I was young it was still a sticky point for waiters as who they asked for the order from first and who might take offense. They had my sympathy in those perplexing times.

patriciae

I'm glad you see that now.

Anyway, I was thinking about this particular turn in the conversation yesterday and realized that the absolutism of my comment about not experiencing a male ordering for a female was slightly inaccurate in a narrow way.

Because I've done it myself! Dozens and dozens of times. For my wife, and for visiting parents and friends. When we were living in a country whose language I knew well and she didn't (her having studied other languages in HS and college). She studied while there and became a capable beginner but still relied on me in restaurants to translate uncommon menu items, ask questions and order for her.

And in three other countries we visited often, then and since, with a different language she didn't know and I did.

So there it is - comments seemingly having wide applicability sometimes don't.