Ten years ago, before my wedding, I was given a gift card to a spa. I chose to get Botox on my 11s.

I really didn’t notice a difference. I haven’t had it since.

I’m in my 50s now and there are a few things I’d like to get done — especially under my eyes. Fear of something going wrong has kept me from doing anything.

There are potential side effects with every procedure along with the statistics. I would love to remove the bags under my eyes. But that is surgery, with the possibility of my dry eyes getting worse. Sigh.

I have never had botox but I know that several of my friends have, and I have to say they do look younger than I do ( same age). I just really cannot stand the lip thing which they have done as well, not over the top but still something looks different.

I am mostly very afraid of something going wrong, as I also have those bags under my eyes and they've really gotten more pronounced. I remember my mother had them and so I guess here I am.

If I look in the mirrow where it's harsh lighting, it's really brutal but I'm still too afraid to take action. I believe the eye thing I have going on would need heavy duty action and I;m just too afraid.

I'm 51 and I get a little Botox 2-3 times a year. I have deep horizontal forehead lines without Botox, and it smooths them right out. Weirdly, I think it has decreased the amount of tension headaches I get. Just this past year I have started getting some Botox around my lips because I'm getting those "smoker's" lines and I have really liked the results. The shots are a little painful but very quick.

I think the most important thing is going to a skilled, experienced doctor who is conservative in how many units they inject. I just want decreased lines, not a completely smooth frozen face.

I haven't tried filler, but I am tempted for my marionette lines. I think filler often makes people look strange, kind of shiny and puffy, so I am too scared to do it. I'd rather look old than look weird, haha!

I just got botox in my "11's" earlier this week and I do that a couple of times a year and am satisfied with the results. Five or six years ago I had a little annoying eye twitch that would not go away and was able to get a tiny amount of botox and it really took care of it and I've not had to repeat.

In discussion with my dermatologist, she indicated that for people with migraines botox is very effective and insurance covers quite a number of units per year to treat this. Same for TMJ so I would definitely give it a try and see if it helps.

I get some every 3 months or so in my crows feet, forehead, and "11s". It's a subtle smoothing, and helps give my eyebrows a nicer arch. It never immobilizes my forehead. I go to a plastic surgeon and they definitely don't water it down. It hurts a teeny bit but it's fast and worth it.

Gov. Kathy Hochul is a very attractive woman, but someone needs to tell her to lay off the Botox a bit. Her forehead is frozen solid.

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who finds Botox to be rather alarming. I just can't get around deliberately putting a deadly poison in your face, no matter how small the dose for solely cosmetic reasons.

I can understand its use for medical reasons, for sure. My aunt is suffering from shingles in her face and mentioned trying it to see if it helps, because not much else has so far.

And to top it off, there was an article in my newsfeed recently about a number of people who were harmed by fake Botox injections...

https://www.wsmv.com/2024/04/11/several-people-hospitalized-after-possibly-receiving-fake-botox-injections/

What i find so odd is how my dermatologist's practice has changed so much over the years. They have made the place look almost like a spa, sell all sorts of products, and send out flyers. They have events that seem like cocktail parties, with speakers. Odd.

I have a student who gets botox for migraines, and she said it's the best treatment she ever had for it.

Although overall my skin is good for my age, I have hooded eyelids and I read that you can do a mild botox brow lift. I'm not looking for any massive change, just for my eyes to look a little larger, so I'd consider this. I am not ready to consider a brow lift or bleph.

I'd rather look old than look weird, haha!

I totally agree with this. Especially as it relates to immediate family. I think those closest to a person can be really offput but these things, whereas total strangers might just register than something seems a tad off, as it often can.

It reminds me a bit of my sister no longer wearing glasses after like 40 years. No one liked it. She herself didn't like it; as she realized the glasses had been magnifying her eyes and made her look better.

“I'm not looking for any massive change….”

Same here. I’d never attempt (or even want) to look like I was in my 20s or 30s again … just me, refreshed a bit.

Allison, fillers scare me, too.

ugh, I have the lines above the upper lip too. I never smoked. I do have missing and broken upper teeth, so maybe that's the cause? I don't know. Just aging I guess. The rest of my face isn't bad at all - just the lip area and a deep line on my forehead between my eyebrows.

When I go to the hairdresser, I hate looking in the mirror. I don't know if it's the lighting or what but I look SO much older than I think I do. lol

They are called cosmetic dermatologist. They do not offer medical dermatology.

No, this is the dermatologist my whole family has always seen (periodically) over the years. I think they are just trying to pivot/expand but it turns me off. I feel like they are trying to upsell me if I go in to like, whack a mole. In fairness, they never have, but they do send me lots of stuff.

@gsciencechick, I had a plastic surgeon tell me he could raise my eyebrows (and consequently my eyelids) about 1mm with Botox. The plastic surgeon I’m seeing now says Botox doesn’t do much for raising eyelids. I didn’t think 1mm was worth the effort. YMMV.

I am currently in the midst of getting my face lasered for rosacea. The first round did nothing. I had to go back for a second round this past Tuesday. It stings a little but is not unbearable. Or let me phrase it this way, my desire to not have rosacea far outweighs the minor discomfort from the treatment.

My dermatologist, an old curmudgeon, took in a partner, young hip female. After about 2 years they split. Her practice seems to be more keyed to cosmetic dermatology. The old curmudgeon is still the one I see for basic skin issues.

ETA: I follow a plastic surgeon on IG, Dr. Gerald Imber. https://www.instagram.com/geraldimbermd?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

He’s pretty straightforward about what can and what cannot be accomplished with plastic surgery. He said the lines around your mouth are to a degree genetic. Sucking on a cigaretter or a straw doesn’t help. He also said that men rarely have those lines because their skin is thicker on the upper lip, plus they are constantly exfoliating the area with shaving.

e also said that men rarely have those lines because their skin is thicker on the upper lip, plus they are constantly exfoliating the area with shaving.

Well then, off to shave! LOL

Or grow a mustache!

I dermaplane and I don’t know if it has helped with wrinkles, but it sure makes my skin feel good! :)

Allison (for some reason, I cannot tag you), a couple of years ago, you mentioned a pillow that you use. I believe it is supposed to help reduce the facial wrinkles caused by pillows. Can you re-post the name of the pillow and, perhaps, a place it can be bought?

@bbstx It‘s the Envy pillow. I bought it for my neck. It has helped my neck pain. I have both regular and travel ones. I can’t say it’s helped my wrinkles, though. Have you tried a silk pillowcase? I use those as well. https://www.envypillow.com

The one advantage with the Botox is that it might help a little, and if I don't like it, it at least wears off.

I know the older you are, the less things that are non-surgical are an option. I am fortunate the dermatologist said my skin is about 20 years behind my age, so if I'm maybe more like a 40-year-old vs. a 60-year-old it might work.

I just can't get around deliberately putting a deadly poison in your face, no matter how small the dose for solely cosmetic reasons.

Exactly how I feel.

Would I like to remove the lines in my forehead and my RBF? Yes, absolutely. Am I willing to inject poison into my face to do it. No, absolutely not.

I think for my age (63), my skin is pretty good. I use good face care products and whatever happens, happens.

I have been thinking about some of the laser, BBX, moxi type treatments. I would like to remove some dark spots if I could. I don't know a local place so I haven't done it. Anyone have experience with any of these treatments?

Jsk, following gif dark spot options

"I think RBF is just another name for 'person who is not smiling'.”

Actually, it's another name for WOMEN who are not smiling! What's the equivalent for men? Don't think there is one.

I believe it's people whose relaxed facial expression is a scowl.

And it's possible to change it by consciously practicing a pleasant or neutral expression - actors and models learn that.

@eld6161, I checked my patient notes to see what I had. I had BBL over my entire face. Three weeks later, I could still see the rosacea and a couple of dark spots, so I went back. Second trip, I got BBL again plus TRL for a stubborn dark spot. BBL and TRL are both lasers. I’m not 72 hours past the treatment yet, so there is no way to tell how effective it was.

I am having the treatments done at skin and laser center that is adjunct to a plastic surgery group. The laser treatments are done by masters degreed physicians assistants.

Fellow TMJ-er here. I feel your pain! I won't get into my story but will say get your mouthguard checked for I proper contact if you haven't. I have to get mine adjusted periodically - things move and change!

How many years have Botox injections been around? If the answer isn't 100 years + then all the negative side effects are not yet known. It's too soon in how the human body reacts to foreign substances. Good Luck with that!!!

The botulism toxin has been around for quite a while as a medical treatment. I had a student who received regular shots in his heel to relax a too-tight heel cord. That was in the early 1990s.

I've had cosmetic botox only, but wasn't interested in continuing because the minimal results simply weren't worth the expense and upkeep to me. Overall, I'm happy with my skin appearance. (My gray roots... that's another story.) I have more of a "from the inside out" skincare approach. Here's a podcastthat some might find interesting.

eta: re: RBF, I was made aware in my 20s that I have this. As a result, I am uber-attentive to my facial expressions, especially when meeting new people or casual acquaintances. My kids once told me they could only tell I was angry by the tone of my voice, not my facial expression.

It makes me a bit sad and angry the way so many of us are acculturated to be so critical of our looks - esp. as we age.

And it's all about commerce - making people feel bad about themselves helps sell more stuff.

@Sueb20 your last post made me laugh! I am NOT photogenic - at all!!!

I absolutely hate having my picture taken - and I’m sure that just contributes to the photos turning out even worse. My ex husband isn’t photgenic either - but our two daughters are extremely photogenic. I do think part of it had to do with the fact that they grew up with having many more photos taken (digital cameras and then phone cameras) - so, I think they are much more comfortable in front of a camera.

I’ve had botox for migraines every three months for the past five years - 30+ injections all over my head/temples/neck/upper shoulders. Part of the set injection sites are just a few on my face - one by each eyebrow (where some people have 11s - I didn’t have those before starting botox) and a few towards the top of my forehead. It doesn’t freeze my forehead - but I don’t have deep forehead lines. Due to having botox for my migraines, I am unable to have cosmetic botox done for wrinkles (if I wanted to).

I wouldn’t have fillers done - they scare me! I’ve seen some scary looking results. I really hate the duck lip look also!

I’ve never had any issues from the injections (except that they are a bit painful) - until the ones I had 2 1/2 weeks ago. I have had a huge headache + neck ache + feel like I’m sick

(all my joints ache also) since about 12 hours after my appointment. Plus, I can feel little bumps at many of the injections sites. I was told this can be a normal side effect - and I have to just wait it out. 😞

Wondering if it's possible to reach a limit on efficacy with something like that? It happens with other drugs.

@texanjana, do you know which EnVy pillow you have? I looked and got overwhelmed by the choices.

Yes, I have a silk pillowcase, but I’ve only had it for about 2 years. Wish I had started using them years ago. I’ve bought them for my grandchildren and my daughter. I bought inexpensive ones for the grands because they all have wild hair.

Speaking of silk pillowcases, Quince has them for $39.90. I’ve generally been pleased with things I’ve bought from Quince.

https://www.quince.com/home/silk-pillowcase?color=ivory&productPosition=1&searchQuery=pillowcases&tracker=landingPage__search_section__search_results

Thanks bb! I have one silk pillowcase and have been wanting to get another.

I have an EnVy pillow - probably the least expensive one. I also am not sure it helps avoid night face smushing but I like it for support since I'm a side sleeper.

I have to sleep on a wedge (GERD), I wonder if a silk pillow would slide off.

Hopefully this year we’re going to get an adjustable bed.

I tend to be a stomach sleeper, which I know is bad. I keep trying to train myself to be a back sleeper but it is not easy!

Wait, aren't we supposed to be side sleepers?

Jilly, I doubt the silk pillow would slide off your wedge, provided your wedge cover isn’t also silk. I have an adjustable bed. I bought it planning ahead for the day when DH was going to have trouble getting out of bed. From time to time, I raise the head a bit and my silk pillow doesn’t slip around.

I’m a side sleeper which is bad for causing wrinkles. In fact, my marionette line is deeper on the side I most often sleep on.

Thanks, bb, that’s good to know. :)

We love our adjustable bed. I like the head slightly raised. Another side sleeper!

@bbstx I have the plain Envy pillow-no copper.

@jilly FYI…(it works for me.)

“The 2022 American College of Gastroenterologists (ACG) guidelines recommended left lateral decubitus (LLD) sleeping position as one of the lifestyle modifications of GERD management with unequivocal evidence[5]. However, although it is common practice for physicians to educate GERD patients to sleep with the head elevated to prevent nocturnal acid reflux, there is a lack of interest in recommending that patients sleep on the left side. Recent evidence has shown that sleeping with the head elevated and lying to the left side reduced gastric acid exposure and improved nocturnal GERD symptoms and [6]. This improvement can be explained by the pathophysiology and anatomy of the faulty gastroesophageal junction in GERD patients. Lying on the right side would position the esophagus inferior to the gastroesophageal junction, further precipitating reflux and promoting longer acid clearance time[7,8]. This systematic review aims to evaluate and consolidate accumulating evidence regarding the effect of LLD sleep position on nocturnal symptoms in GERD patients.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10643078/#:~:text=Recent%20evidence%20has%20shown%20that,gastroesophageal%20junction%20in%20GERD%20patients.

Thanks, maddie, so true. One night I got so @#$& sick and tired of having to sleep on the wedge, I threw it off the bed and used my pillow normally.

I woke up in the middle of the night, on my right side, severely choking on acid. I could hardly breathe (I have LPR with the GERD). I got my wedge, apologized to it, and happily slept on it again. :D

Update. Unfortunately, she was unable to do botox for my jaw. Long story but apparently most people who grind their teeth have built up their masseter muscles. That is where the botox is injected. My muscles are not built up, she could barely even feel them, so botox isn’t applicable. I was so bummed but also very thankful that she was honest. But, well, since I was there….I got just a dab of ’tox in my crows feet. It was nothing! Tiniest pinch and over in minutes. She was conservative and said if it’s not enough I can go back in two weeks to get more. I doubt I will. It is too early to see effects and part of my brain is saying omg I can’t believe you did that while the other part is saying you go girl.

I have an appt for acupuncture next week (more needles!) for my wonky foot. Maybe she can help with my jaw, we’ll see.

Sue, not sure if you have ever tried dry needling? I had it done on my achilles tendon (yes me, the needle wienie!) with great success. My physical therapist was certified in it. I actually asked for the needling after just 2 treatments. First time I was so nervous I thought I might throw up LOL. I would do it again in a heartbeat, it worked so well. I don't know the difference between acupuncture and dry needling; just throwing it out there in case you wanted to check it out.

Tina, yes, my PT also did dry needling for my foot. It didn’t bother me although I also hate needles! I am mostly a weenie about needles drawing blood 🤢 … I can handle other types of needles OK as long as I don't look.

I have Blissy silk pillowcases DH bought me for Christmas. He also bought himself the silk sleep masks from Blissy.