Haha. Buy two, get one free and blow your rose budget. Diane

No worse than "My Black Thumb Nursery" or "Kate's Roses". Not than any of the three will receive an order from me.

They have beautiful photos.

Paul, I just checked again, and all but one of their roses is $79. Seventy dollars is cheap-ha. Diane

Diane, their "exclusive" roses are $79 and regular ones are $69. They are exploring how far with the price they can go... No wonder that regular roses are still in stock at their regular price of $69.

I am more curious about their "exclusive" contracts with Tantau and so sorry for Palatine. I wish we have people who are practicing in patent law.

Asked ChatGPT : can company get exclusive rights to sell roses under patent in only one place ? and got an answer:

Yes, it's possible for a company to obtain exclusive rights to sell roses through a patent in a specific location or market. Patents can grant exclusive rights to the patent holder for a certain invention or product, allowing them to control its production, use, and sale within the specified jurisdiction for a limited period of time.

For instance, a company could develop a new variety of roses through unique breeding techniques or genetic modifications and then patent that specific variety. With the patent in place, they could have exclusive rights to sell these roses in a particular region or market for the duration of the patent.

However, patents are subject to regulations and laws that vary by country or region. The exclusivity might be limited by the terms of the patent, and there could be restrictions or requirements imposed by local patent laws.

Overall, while it's possible to obtain exclusive rights to sell roses under a patent in a specific place, the extent and limitations of this exclusivity would depend on the details of the patent and the laws governing patents in that particular jurisdiction.

I think many roses have had this in the past and obviously still do. We can look at white flower garden And heirloom roses for ones in the past that were only available through them and are now more widely available. We also see this with J&P who has exclusive that never get Widely sold.

@elenazone6 exclusives have been common in plant marketing for many decades. Springhill Nurseries used to only offer new varieties as long as they received the exclusive rights to sell them for the first season or more. Ralph Moore sold them the exclusive for the first season on Linda Campbell, Topaz Jewel and Red Fairy, probably a number more, but those I remember discussing with him. They were willing to pay for the privilege, so he took the money and let them sell the roses.

Yes, but J&P has Double Easy Orange exclusively, and it's just $40. I can do that, but it's about my top price I'll pay, plus shipping. However, I can get patented Austins in a five gallon Austin pot with tags at Edwards for about $40. Normally, I would buy just from them, but I fell for DEO, and it has been worth it. Grace rose farm can pound sand. Diane

I got a Wayside Gardens' catalog yesterday, and the prices were terrible, of course. Get this, they want $12.95 for a single plant of the short lived, once blooming annual, Lauren's Grape Poppy. Nobody buys annual poppies by the plant, much less pays a price like that. They are selling a single cosmos plant for $11.95--a cosmos plant. I toss out my Lauren's Grape poppy seeds onto the ground directly, and they all germinate in spring. I figure I should sell my plants at Wayside's price and go to Europe on the profit. I'm not sure where I'd find customers willing to pay, though. I have bags of poppy seed I've gathered for years. Pounds of the stuff. I've never seen a plant produce so many seeds as poppies. I guess the high rose prices are nothing compared to cosmos, impatiens, petunia, and poppy prices that Wayside has listed. Diane

@Diane Brakefield thank you for that post! I meant Wayside instead of Springhill in my exclusive post. Springhill was the retail outlet for Week's Roses. Wayside is who purchased the exclusive rights to several of the Sequoia roses.

Springhill's prices seem reasonable from what I've seen of their catalogs. J&P and Park Seed are all part of the same company as Wayside. But Wayside seems much more out of line pricewise. Diane

@roseseek, I am still fuzzy about the patent law. Could you please explain the following example:

1) GRF has exclusive rights to sell Mariatheresia™ , this rose was patented in Germany in 2003. Per my understanding, the length of patent is 20 years?

Yes ma'am, now they are. They weren't thirty or so years ago.

@elenazone6 whomever owns the patent has the right to license anyone willing to pay for the privilege to sell the plant. Austin has done that forever. They actually sold the "exclusive world rights" to Evelyn to one firm in Britain and another in the US and even more in other countries around the world, knowing none of them would overlap due to import restrictions. Patent and exclusive rights to sell are two different things. As long as those selling the patented plant has bought a contract from the patent owner and is paying royalties, they have the right to sell the plant. Patent periods run 20 or 21 years, I forget which and haven't looked it up recently. If it's worth their financial while to pay to extend the length of the patent, they are able, so it's possible for that period to be lengthened. Anyone NOT paying royalties, selling the patented variety is in violation of the patent and it's the patent owner's responsibility to police it and take action against those infringing upon their patent. Whether that is financially worth it or not is up to the patent holder's decision.

Got it, thank you!

Here is Grace's explanation about the process of obtaining and distribution her exclusive roses. https://youtu.be/mQNEwJoamCQ?si=jKYoUReDLZJTYv7i

Just wow... Etsy sellers going to be out of business soon.

In that video she says at one point: "we've got about 500 varieties trademarked", which puzzles me. I'm not sure if she intends to be literal in stating this, but it isn't possible for her company to Trademark individual varieties. That's just not how it works. Besides, you cannot trademark something you did not create.

A Trademark is what is used to protect a brand, not a single unique property. That's what Patents are for. A Trademark is what you obtain for your brand name - for example, David Austin the brand has a ® (Circle R) after the company name to indicate that David Austin Roses is a registered Trademark.

So whatever "Grace" means by stating "we've got about 500 varieties trademarked", she either misspoke, or is giving misleading information about what her process is. Or maybe she has no idea what Trademark really is, I don't know. But that is inaccurate information, either way.

Paul, I wonder if Grace and her "silent partner" have had their sources trademark their roses (if they haven't already) and then transfer the trademark to them for a sum of money that benefits the breeder and Grace? Trademarks are able to be sold. I also wonder if her silent partner is Francis Roses? Just a thought, since I think they already import a lot of European roses.

Susan, I think you are correct about Francis Roses.

MayMaybeMayMaybe she meant 500 trademarked varieties.

OMG, if I lived in the US I wouldn't be able to afford to buy roses! One of the more expensive nurseries of which I know here in Europe, Filroses, offers bare-roots for no more than 22 euros-and that's over-priced, IMO. The most expensive of the roses offered by Barni are potted climbers, for under 30 euros...

Susan

I’m pretty sure the silent partner is Francis. She said the roses are growing in Arizona, and Francis is already licensed for Delbard, Tantau , Barni etc. I hope they are successful. I do know that some of the Francis Roses introduced by Certified like Perfume Breeze had dissapointing sales, or ended up as body bags. Hopefully Grace's definition of success is a much smaller number of sales of a particular variety.

Interesting why Francis is silent about this partnership. Now I got why when I called Elena from Francis about Tantau roses she did not mentioned Grace as Tantau distributor.

Elena I had the same question. I saw on their instagram they posted pics of fields of Olivia Rose Austin...who else could those possibly be grown for except DA? Then I happened to be in a Zoom session with Tyler Francis , so I asked if he was growing plants for Austin. I thought it was a very innocent question, but he declined to answer, saying he prefers to keep his customer list private (which of course is his prerogative, I just didn’t know it was a sensitive question, or I would not have asked).

As for Tantau roses, some of them are also going to Certified….Scentuous and Forever Yours / Marlene , for example. Since Tantau lists Francis as their US distributor, I’d think Francis gets to choose which varieties go to whom.

Ben, exactly... Cerified was mentioned by Elena when I told her (after initial decline to answer) that I have asked Tantau Germany and they send me your way.

Going back to earlier comments on this thread, I see Sheila mentioning what beautiful photos are to be seen on the sites of Kate Roses and the horribly- named "My Black Thumb" (how cutesy! yuck). I looked them up and was struck by the fact that both sites seem to post the exact same photographs of at least several of the roses they offer. Also, a lot of the photographs seemed to me to be kind of "fake",in the sense that for the most part they show either bouquets of a variety ,or a single close-up shots of one or a few single, perfect flowers. But when I go onto HMF to look up the roses,well...I guess I just wonder what these extremely expensive plants would be like in real life. I'm also perplexed by the fact that at least on the Kate Roses site, no information is given as to the breeder,etc. Many of them are not listed on HMF, either. Hmm...

It’s a long tgread…. not time for me to read everyones posts… sorry . However, I wanted to mention that….. Sometimes rose sellers have higher prices….

But….. Grace Rose Farm sends the biggest potted roses, very healthy, and mine from her were in bloom when arrived!

The best roses I have ever received came from Grace Rose Farm, Jessiesroses.com were excellent!-big-heakthy! .. I think Katesroses were good, too. Unless you have actually ordered from a seller, I would be careful to assess their qyality of products/prices.,

I am very supportive of the sellers. They are all trying to earn a living and growing roses or plants is a difficukt business to make a profit.

Of course Francis is her producer. It's not like there are many other possibilities.

@elenazone6 there are a few potential reasons why Francis wouldn't verify their connection to Grace Rose Farm. There may be contractual language preventing it. There aren't that many players in that world these days and you don't want the actions of one to adversely reflect upon you. One, or the other, may have stipulated it in writing. One, or both sides may be concerned about people trying to "go to the source" for a variety or varieties, in hopes of finding them at better prices. Or, perhaps the person who responded simply felt it was none of your business. Neither is under any obligation to divulge that information.

For all who wonder abput Kates roses, Grace Rose Farm, Plantroses, GcmRanch, Jessiesroses, and other rose/plant suppliers on Etsy…. or on their websites, I have ordered many of roses from them.,

There are different reasons for their pricing. They have many Japanese roses, unique to our US market and roses we don’t see sometimes from our popular nurseries. Supply/demand principle. And maybe they are just trying to make a living. I am willing to pay more for unique roses that I cannot find in nurseries elsewhere. Many of the Etsy sellers giving a personal touch to their orders, too.

And I support these well-meaning kind businesses. They have always been very nice to me. I enjoy their personal thoughtful business! Small businesses often have higher prices just to stay in business.

Some of the roses come small and some big! They are all growing nicely for me. i will have a thread in the spring/summer season to show these Etsy/Kates, Jessies, Grace Rose Farm roses grow! Loving them all! They are almost all new last summer/fall 2023-most need time to flourish this coming season 2024.

As to Grace Rose Farm, she is very thoughtful and has education in marleting. I read her story of growing roses and she’s an amazing visionary and has done wonderful things with her business. She has bought a few properties, each an improvement and larger better location to grow roses; however, sometines she bpught roses from others when setting up to grow on the new property to ease transitions. She has a growing business. She gives out superb quality in orders!

I agree with Kitty. To me, it doesn’t make sense to buy, say, 6 roses that I am kind of interested in but could certainly do without, rather than spend the same amount and get 3 roses I really really want. Quantity isn’t the point. Part of this may be because of the place I am in my garden - I really don’t have all that much room left, so don’t need to fill up spaces. But in any event, I’d rather buy fewer roses and get ones that are really special.

I must add, though, that I totally agree with Dianne re: annuals for sale at the likes of Wayside and White Flower. $12.95 for a single cleome??!!! I feel like telling people they can come dig 'em up from my driveway for nothing. 3 Cosmos for $32? And the idea of selling Laurens grape poppies for $12 as individulal plants is absurd. All of these plants self-sow in most situations, they are easy as pie to start from seed, and seed is very inexpensive. I winter sow and direct sow all of these, as well as enjoy my volunteers. I wish there was some way to communicate to beginning/inexperienced gardeners that they can easily grow these flower from seed on their own.

@User

Thank you! These unique roses sold on Etsy, Grace Rose Farm, and other nurseries I mentioned are really special , esp. the ones I ordered. You can see them for now on the previous Fall thread or new ”Slide into Spring,” thread…. I will start mentioning them and when they bloom I will make a thread for them! It has been fun to start these unique roses!

I hope Grace Rose Farms starts shipping rose bushes soon. I have quite a few exclusive variety bushes that are supposed to arrive this spring. This morning I saw someone mentioned a lot of bad reviews on BBB about Grace Rose Farms. I checked and my heart sank. Sure hope the bushes come this spring. Has anyone else recieved bushes or bareroots in fall of 2023 or spring of 2024? Spring of 2023 I recieved great estate bushes. But these exclusive varieties are a different category and most of the bad reviews are more recent.

To the question way earlier about GRF saying she has the exclusive rights to certain out-of-patent roses; the roses patented in Germany in 2003 may not have been filed for patent in the US until 2004, but still... that only gives 1 more year exclusive rights (expire 20 years after filing date).

So it must be the trademark she has the rights for in association with that rose. For example with David Austin roses their rose "Evelyn" is the trademark name and Ausaucer is the botanical name. So she has the rights to use the trademark name "Mariatheresa" even if someone else can sell it. That's why it has the R with a circle behind it. Once it's out of patent, if it was even patented in the US, it can be sold but only under TAN09094 - or you can rename it to anything you want - but no one will recognize the rose. The trademark name easily identifies the rose.

As for GRF's business practices, she's a great social media star and marketer but otherwise is not a good company. Once I receive my roses that I purchased about a year ago, I will post on feedback in the BBB and other review sites fearing if I post a negative review I will never get the roses I paid for.

It is really sad to hear you still haven’t gotten your roses, Rosesinclay!

With how even David Austin Roses can be difficult to work with (like a very late bareroot ship time last year for my zone), it seems we have fewer and fewer reliable options. And when the roses offered are rare varieties to find, it’s quite a conundrum. Heirloom Roses has far and away been the most reliable rose seller for me. But their prices are astronomical now. Maybe they know they can charge high because their service is so dependable. I also like Antique Rose Emporium, but the old garden style of roses don’t hold up as well in a vase for me. I suppose Menagerie might be my favorite seller, come to think of it!

Roses in clay: I am having the same problem getting a timely delivery from GRF roses. Ugh, I don't trust this business. I totally agree with your comment that Grace is a social media "star" but runs a not-so-great business. I won't even go there as I find most social media annoying and mind-numbingly stupid. I will definitely report them to BBB also. This company has NO goodwill from me. Geez, what is wrong with some people???