The other driver's company has accepted 100% liability. Kid is not upset at all.

I didn't berate them. I hugged the hard and talked kindly to them. And I still am! Y'all are assuming things that just aren't true???

And yes, I wanted them to use the nice car in case anything happened with their ward. Which was HIGHLY unlikely to happen. This was more about making the child's mother feel comfortable. Kiddo was happy to hang out with the child. They are friends!

Why can't you drive the rental car? Most companies allow a second driver for no extra $.

Again, it's your initial post that makes you seem like an overbearing bully towards your children.

Seems like the biggest problem is in how this story was framed in the OP. It clearly led to some misunderstanding - myself included. I took the OP @ face value, not realizing some of the wording was being facetious. Only after reading down, did I realize that.

I guess that goes to show words have consequences as well.

P.S. I don't think I would go out of my way to make things more difficult, however.

" And this has been an ongoing issue with us, wanting to use my car to go out of town? "

It may be, but you agreed to lend it to her.

" but I think they're finally understanding that I really must have a car to get things done. And how hard life would be with only having one "

Yeah, but they should have, and could have, learned this at any time, and without the trauma of being in a car accident. And, yes, even slow-speed car accidents can be traumatic, especially when it's someone else's car. I am way more upset by damaging something that was loaned to me than I am about damaging something of my own.

I know you're trying to make it no big deal because you didn't get the response you wanted, but the truth is still that you want to punish her for something that wasn't her fault and are enjoying her troubles.

" the truth is still that you want to punish her for something that wasn't her fault and are enjoying her troubles. "

That's exactly how I and many others took the comments.

"Kiddo always wants to take the nice car, that has the air conditioning, and I don't want them to"

"And yes, I wanted them to use the nice car"

Have you changed your mind or what happened here?

I think you've turned this into a valuable life lesson, not a punishment. She's now learning how to deal with insurance claims, car rentals, etc. I was on my own the first time I had an accident and wish I had someone to walk me through the process. And when she asks to borrow your car in the future, she will have a clearer picture of how and why that may inconvenience you. I did not read all of the comments, but I'm assuming she is a teenager or young adult. Consideration for the consequences of your requests to others is not always foremost on their minds.

gee, wasn’t starting the thread with ”bwaahaahaa” a giveway? Lighten up.

Kiddo is a grown man/woman/they. I think it's far past time mommy cuts the cord. How does the grown up kid feel about all this oversharing online? I remember the "bag on the bathroom door" post and still SMH. I'd first thought the child was 8 or younger when I read that one. Now this one is like it's about an underage driver, which it is not. Let him/her go out and find themselves. Too much mommy interference going on here. Life lessons were for 5 years or so ago. Mom needs to step back and encourage kiddo to figure stuff out on their own. There is a fine line between giving moral support and clinging to a child too long. Forming healthy adult relationships and finding life partners is getting harder for all young adults in these time. Has to be even tougher for this young adult. Mommy in the background is not helpful.

^^^Really? Publicly criticizing someone's parenting? I sincerely hope you reconsider and delete that post. That beyond crosses a line.

Edit - To be clear, this is directed at the general comment above, not all the solicited responses.

Well you put stuff out in public you get responses. That's real life.

But I will share this. My home has always been a safe place for these "kiddos" long before it became a movement and everyone was yapping about it on the internet. So when I see something that may be counterproductive to their well being I sure as hell am going to speak out.

Just curious, how old is "Kiddo"?

Apparently old enough to rent a car. Living at home? Chipping in on the rent, utilities, groceries?

I think some of the confusion may be due to the fact that the daughter is referred to as "kiddo" which makes me think of a teen driver. As I was thinking about this thread, I realized that in most places a person needs to be 21 (25 in some states), so since she (daughter) had to rent the car herself, she may very well be an adult at least several years removed from 18. In that case, I figure mom can do whatever she wants (within reason, for those who might take that further than I intend it).

I have noticed a backlash for members who share their personal stories here. Often they share about family issues. I can think of two other people on this website who regularly faced criticism due to sharing.

i was confused out of the gate with kiddo and 'them' being constantly used. who is 'them'??

use DD or DS...

this post is very muddled....

IMO the practice of using plural pronouns for non-binary individuals is ill-conceived due to the inevitable confusion it creates. But it has become the standard, and anyone who has read Rob's posts over recent years will understand why she uses it. Asking her to adjust her writing risks coming across as a dig.

I didn't mean it as a dig. I know why she uses it. But there are readers here who do not know why she uses it.

This is about communication. The art of writing is not just for one's own pleasure but also for the reader's, and you do need to make sure you are communicating effectively. I found myself stumbling over all the "they and thems", and the idea of an easy alternative came to me and I wanted to share it with Rob--use a name once and an initial afterwards. It would be easier for the reader and for Rob too to just write an initial instead of "they and them" each and every time.

In a post from 2 years ago, Rob talks about her 21 almost 22 year old child. So "kiddo" is almost 24.
When i hear "kiddo," i think child. Not an almost 24 yr old adult.

SMDH.

IMPO, if rob calls her child 'Kiddo' then that's their name, and using 'K' as a shortcut instead of they/their or them, as Eileen suggested, might lessen any confusion - or not 😃

I'm not confused by the pronouns, just the sentence structure sometimes...

"I'm not confused by the pronouns, just the sentence structure sometimes..."

Me too but this is a function of contemporary American English language, not a Rob issue. I have no problem speaking out about the practice in general, but specifically calling out Rob's proper usage and asking her to write differently to accommodate us seems personal to me.

^^ then don't be surprised when her posts digress like this one has. Most of her posts include a lot of confusion and lack of clarity. Are we stupid or is her writing as clear as mud?

Or maybe we talk in a different manner. That's a personal attack.

And if you want to, when I say kiddo, you can say "K" in your mind. I don't have to accommodate every whim of every entitled person any more than you do.

P.S. I can feel like it's an ongoing issue that they take lightly how much I need the car, when they want it. But also have compassion for a time it was better to do so. And their pronouns can be she/her/they/them. Kiddo is an endearment for my adult child. What do you call your son or daughter when they identify as non-binary? So kiddo it is.

Honest answer? If you know someone is talking about a non-binary person yet you still have trouble interpreting the pronouns, it's a problem on your end.

I do find the grammar awkward. And when I read something in the news about someone I have no idea is non-binary, it can be very annoying and confusing. I do object to the usage on a general level. But most of us have been here for years, know not only that Rob is a female but that she has one child who is non-binary. If there's more than a split second of confusion reading her posts because of the pronouns, I'd have to think it's willful confusion. Or maybe you're onto something by suggesting stupidity, I don't know.

" Most of her posts include a lot of confusion and lack of clarity. "

I think that comes from the habit of dismissing the validity of reader opinions and backpedaling and often trying to redirect prior comments to try to deflect disagreements with what she said. As is true with the most recent comment.

Well you put stuff out in public you get responses.

My response is that most of us in the KT have been together as a group for years. This should be a place to share and be supportive. I've never had a problem with the pronouns but I can see that some particularly those unfamiliar with the OP might, all they have to do is ask and I'm sure Rob would reply.

Even sharing and being supportive we have a right and maybe even an obligation to say something when we think that someone should have made a different choice when they present a situation. Depending on how we feel it is OK to be very direct; perhaps reading the thoughtful replies given, the presenter might see the issues in a different way and consider other ways to respond to the situation.

FOAS said "If there's more than a split second of confusion reading her posts because of the pronouns, I'd have to think it's willful confusion."

I didn't suggest a name and initial because of confusion about who she was talking about. It was for ease of reading and ease of writing. I think we have to come up with a new singular pronoun for non-binary people because the plural's meaning is "more than one" to most readers. It's awkward. There are many choices for alternatives but they are new words and will take awhile to become part of our language. I do use "they and them" when I have no idea of the gender, but when someone identifies as non-binary, I'd like a word other than "they".

Rob, when you say "And their pronouns can be she/her/they/them" about your child, why don't you use she/her on this forum?

I don't care how old her child is. It's none of our business. This is where the criticism of another member comes in that I mentioned above.

Please explain "But also have compassion for a time it was better to do so."...?

And FWIW, I know many people write as they speak, but I prefer to be a little more formal when I write - I'm fussy that way - and my mother had a master's degree in English 😏

I proofread - often more than once - and even go back and fix things that escaped my notice the first time. I get confused by other members' sentence structure too, not just rob's.

And I am aware of the glitchy interface with phone platforms, I've experienced it as well. I've seen that make many posts rather confusing too.

If we don't use they/them as pronouns, they will never have what they want, their choice of life. I have been thinking about posting a Q&A for this specific issue. I do this all the time in person. People gain an understanding of the issues when they can ask any and all questions about non-binary life. I have had the gamut of questions, and I have answered them in frank and kind ways.People come away feeling clarified and happy to understand.

I'm sorry it is confusing, but I won't backdown from using the pronouns that the LGBTQ community uses and deserves to have. There's nothing wrong with using pronouns with which some are not accustomed. So just practice. It'll come to you.

elmer, I can disagree and I can agree with commenters. I understand fine. Disagreeing with your characterizations of what I am feeling is appropriate when you tell me how I am feeling. None of you are in my presence, or saw what transpired, or know how my child received what happened. Their opinion is gratitude towards my parenting of them, and their friends. Their friends also appreciate my acceptance of their lifestyle and to have a surrogate mom. Suppose away in what happened, but when I tell you you're wrong, believe it.

Ironically, kiddo just sent me this. Funny!

" Suppose away in what happened, but when I tell you you're wrong, believe it. "

I have a lifetime's experience of giving and receiving and accepting constructive criticism. It was a cultural cornerstone of my professional life and, of course, that leaks into personal endeavors too.

It is you who dismisses comments and opinions that are not your own, for seemingly just that very reason. If you don't see that in this and many other of your threads, that's fine but believe me, others do.

I can fully accept criticism when I am doing something wrong. Mischaracterizing me solves nothing.

I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of the word "criticism" in the phrase "constructive criticism".

In this usage, it doesn't have a negative or critical connotation. It doesn't imply error or having done something wrong. Constructive criticism suggests assessments and reflections of others concerning what someone has said or done. Offering those impressions as a means for the person to understand how others see and react to them. With suggestions about positive things to continue doing and what, if anything, to consider perhaps doing differently.

The suggestion to use different pronouns or names is offensive. Reading or writing they/them or something else is not difficult unless you want it to be. As a LGBTQ mom who fears for my son’s safety on a daily basis please be kind and take a small step towards acceptance.

Strange, but predictable, direction this thread has taken, due to the way the original post was written. I fully support any gender-preferences and the people who choose them. But really .... reading this OP was just odd - and no, I had no idea about Rob's "child's" preferences, so the "they" references had me thinking it was multiple kids but then obviously not but then .... I just had a hard time understanding the point of her post while trying to figure out what she was talking about.

I still think it's concerning, whether in jest or not, that she is having fun thinking of punishments, ways to incovenience "them", when they did absolutely nothing wrong.

Strange.

"Kiddo always wants to take the nice car, that has the air conditioning, and I don't want them to because I don't want my daily driver hit."

Kiddo. Singular. Wants. Singular. Every clue needed can be found within the first three words of the post. This is getting absurd.

Oh the heck with the pronouns. Even many in the LGBT community consider them a fad.

But the real issue I see is the that "kiddo" is an adult. I often let...I am making them learn....I keep telling them...I can't wait to make them take me....I wanted them to.....

All those encouraging this would be the first to say this was abusive, bullying and controlling behavior if a spouse were doing it. God forbid if a man spoke to their wife that way. Probably would be advising the spouse to pack up and leave. The kid is an adult. Mom is dismissive of this fact. Bottom line.

" due to the way the original post was written"

Maybe because others cannot learn something new? Or are threatened? Try it. Let someone else live their life the way they want to. It's not my lack. In this instance. And adjusting to the person who has chosen what they want is the opposite of abuse, it's compassion.

>> Maybe because others cannot learn something new? Or are threatened? Try it.

Yeah, not so much, Rob. But, good try

Suggesting a grammar edit of the written word to make it more clear to the reader is in no way a statement about acceptance of LGBTQ people. That's absurd.

Not absurd at all to LGBTQ and their families & friends.

Begging to differ with FOAS - but it's still unclear to me what is meant by 'my daily driver hit'. Is that a person or a vehicle? And why would they be hit, and with what?

That's what has confused me, I'm totally clear about the offspring, and have no trouble with shifting pronouns. Nor do I feel compelled to scrutinize and critique rob's parenting.

P.S. The only time I get frustrated by pronouns is when someone (hubby) keeps using them without ever using any names. I can't always follow his stories, and he gets cross when I ask him whom he's talking about 😄

I too wish that the LGBTQI+ community would come up with a different pronoun than they/them a I do find it confusing at times. For instance, a very dear friend has a child who identifies as non-binary, who also lives with a partner. When my friend talks about her child and what they've been up to lately, it's often not clear whether she is talking about her child only or her child and partner. I believe some now use "xe" and I think that's a brilliant idea.

I could also wish the LGBTQI+ community would come up with a simpler name that's a word. "LGBTQI+" is very awkward, especially when spoken. And while I think the intention when adding new initials every time a different group of non-cis, no homosexual people decides they're different enough from everyone else to need their own name pops up, is to be inclusive, I think it's divisive to split people all up into little groups. Being inclusive would be more "join the gang" than "tack your group onto the end", IMO.

Nothing to do with LGBTQ+, ”they” has been used as a non-gender-specific singular AND plural pronoun for decades and longer. Language evolves naturally with usage, and anything artificial is, well, artificial. The spelling of Ms. barely counts, as it is a created spelling of a long-used shortened title, Miz.

Now, since no one caught on to the fun intended by rob, can we just quit piling on and move on?

" since no one caught on to the fun intended by rob, "

I guess I missed the obvious humor in her crowing about bullying her kid.

I didn’t read it that way at all.

Don't you just hate jargon? In this case it's gearhead jargon.

Daily driver= the car that gets you to everything you need to do, work, doctor's appointments, grocery store, etc.

As opposed to what would be my grocery getter (just a few seconds of use)= my beautiful, but hardly dependable 1990 Mazda Miata. It's fun, but it's not something I would drive everyday.

Hence, the opposite of a "daily" driver.

I hadn’t heard of those, just ”train car”, the two-door beater you drive to the commuter train.

Rob, when you say "And their pronouns can be she/her/they/them" about your child, why don't you use she/her on this forum?

I recalled back to the HT forum days when Rob mentioned Kiddo was her son and was addressed as he/ him. Over time she has used they/them as her Kiddo prefers that way. I have no problem understand her first (and subsequent) posting with they/them. I would think in the non-binary community, they/them would be the better choice because these individuals can identity themselves as male or female at different times during their time on earth.