That wasn't worth mentioning in the first place?! Then don't give them a gift! You're getting annoyed at us for making suggestions after omitting the most critical detail. What's the question again?

If they don't want a gift at all, then don't send one. Send a card. That's it. It's a zoom wedding. You won't get to attend in person. You won't have dinner with them. No party. So no gift. Just send a card.

They object to gifts on religious grounds but are ok with a go fund me page for the honeymoon????

OK, now I'm officially confused.

Maybe they're like the JWs and don't celebrate xmas and easter and birthdays but are ok with weddings and wedding anniversaries...

I'm getting kind of tired of catering to that generation and all their specific "needs".

She doesn't believe in gifts of any kind yet has a tab to help fund their honeymoon? Seriously? That's a gift!

But ... if she doesn't believe in gifts, I'd not give her one of any kind. And that's not to be mean, it's because that's what she wants. (And I'd definitely not contribute to the honeymoon. As said above, I think that's crass).

I think you should speak with your friend. Has she brought the subject up? She must have some thoughts about the situation. If she's your best friend surely she's spoken about her daughter's wedding. There seems to be a lot of mixed signals here which are a little confusing. You mentioned that you've given them gifts in the past - how were they received or acknowledged? The bride has a religious objection to gifts yet she had a bridal shower and now a GFM for her honeymoon?

It's an unusual situation and I can see why you want to do something for your friend's sake. You wrote that you " don't understand why people want to go against what somebody wants." After reading that it seems like you have 2 choices - give them nothing or give them cash. It's kind of a no win

I know that members of Jehovah's Witness don't 'do' holidays, birthdays, etc. I think it's difficult for members to work around the 'rules' where they are dealing with non-members -- as evidenced by this situation. The Zoom invitation may be an attempt to keep everything low key.

Evidently helping fund a honeymoon doesn't fall into the 'gifts' category, so...I'd do that. Just do whatever you want. Consulting the MOB will only make this more complicated. (You may not want to do what MOB suggests.)

food, it was worth mentioning. It's probably that part which is bothering me. I feel in the middle of it. Mom does try to be observant, but just can't sometimes. I can see that.

I assume the link is for what I said, because someone will want to give whether you want them to or not. I didn't say I was absolutely going to do anything. I'm still trying to decide. I mean, she is my dear friend, and you know how it is when it's like that.

I'll ask other friend what she thinks. There are nuances here.

Her mother is you best friend - does she consider you HER best friend?

There's something odd about this, that a parent's best friend wouldn't be among the small group. This has nothing to do with "that generation" that someone above suggested - this would seem to be about individual preferences, quirks, and yes, social awkwardness and a lack or absence of understanding of social conventions expected by others in these circumstances.

Put it on your list of "cockeyed things people I know have done" and don't overthink what you decide to do or not do.

Please, observe the no gifts. It is what is wanted. Watch the zoom if you can. Send a very nice card with a hand written message to the bride and groom, not just a preprinted Hallmark thought. No, I would skip the money to the honeymoon. It does not work on several levels. Just ignore it. If you MUST do a gift, make it a selections of handwritten recipes that are significant to the bride or her mother. Send it well after the wedding. Amazon has a very nice selection of recipe cards.

Wow elmer. Just wow!!!! She considers me a very very dear friend. Her wedding is FAMILY only (she has parents, two others siblings, they have wives, and there are multiple niece and nephews. Who also may or may not be invited). You're the odd thing here. But thanks for mansplaining it to everyone.

Oh, and it's not "this generation" who have wanted no gifts. So there have been others going through life, likely offending anyone who is JW and didn't want a gift. Now, everyone can be educated. The more I think of it, the more I am of the mind not to, like Sherry said (to be observant), and be evasive should the subject ever some up. But my friend would never bring it up anyhow. She has manners.

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-people-identifying-with-Jehovahs-witnesses-avoid-receiving-gifts

Their distinction is they want freely given gifts, not out of obligation. Best I can remember.

Rob, before I knew more about it, I gave gifts to a child where the Mom is a Jehovah's Witness. She knew I meant no harm so the were no feathers fluffed.

I do give gifts still but mostly on no particular day, but I also give gifts at Christmas after first asking and she was OK with that.

We have to meet people where they are, so in your situation (this is just my opinion, no better or worse than anyone else's) I would not give a gift but would send some $ to the GFM. But you could also discuss the situation with your friend the Mom, and ask whether a gift later, perhaps a housewarming gift, would be acceptable.

Does the chirch accept donations? perhaps a donation to them in honor of the couple?

Honestly - when it comes to gifts, I just don't understand the thinking behind not honoring the expressed wishes of a marrying couple and choosing to deliberately do something else that they most likely will not care for. IMO, that's a kind of power tripping. Why would anyone want to be that person?

Maybe it's crass, but it's their wedding, not anybody else's. I believe good etiquette is politely declining the invitation without going into detail about one's reasons.

And I agree a nice card doesn't count as a gift.

Another thought, tho - would a flower arrangement sent to their home count as a wedding gift...?

I think I'm left with do I want to give them a gift... was the question I should have asked myself.

If it's yes, then how much $ is appropriate?

Maybe, I only got an invitation because her mom and I are close? But I can't ask that 😉

Weddings are hard. To make everyone happy. Yes, it's their day, but her mom certainly has expectations. What parent wouldn't? What a dance we have to tango

You left out a key detail = family only. Not for the first time, you assume everyone knows what you haven't mentioned.

But thanks for the insult.

I don't need to give every single detail. There was enough for a basic answer. Which was all I was after.

After all you're great at filling in any and all details for things that you consider "missing". You look like you look because of your assumption. Many others gave reasonable answers without insulting me, sans (what you consider) every detail.

Rob, in fairness the details you left out were important. First the why of why she's not into gifts, and second the why of why you weren't invited. You seemed put off at the lack of invites, and being "invited" to watch the zoom (is that really considered an invite?) perhaps only because you're friends with the mom. But we're past that now. You asked for a number and I'm going to suggest $100. Enough to be a nice gift, not so much that they feel guilty for not having invited you. So that's my number, take it or leave it! 🙂

It's a small wedding, meaning, she's not making a big deal. I'm only invited because I'm a friend of her mother's, not her friend. It's over zoom, for my participation, not no involvement, but some.

Nothing else is important?! To you maybe, but it doesn't seem all that important.

I already knew she didn't want traditional gifts, but I want to. A little something.

Seriously, anything else you think is important, is important to you, not the situation.

I, personally, don't like receiving gifts. I'm not JW, I'm just very picky and don't want stuff. I know it's common, but unless there is need, monetary gifts seem crass to me. If you want to do something, take the couple out to dinner after the hoopla has died down. Or host a dinner and invite your friend, too. They're getting married. They've (hopefully) found love. That means they've already received a wonderful gift. Honor their desire. They do not request your presents at their wedding.

A nice card, $100 toward the honeymoon and done!

i don't see anything wrong with contributing to the honeymoon. do you know how much weddings cost, small or otherwise? home ownership? rent? what travel costs? to me, that's such an easy ask, i would be thrilled to comply!

i commend them for not 'going commercial' with the wedding and the gifts, kudos! and you don't know their private circumstances.

OP: don't overthink it, just do what they are asking.....

Rob, you come here asking advice and then drop additional details as you get annoyed at the responses. The latest is it going from "only have a Zoom invite" to "involvement." And YES the details matter as you yourself can see in the way the conversation shifts each time. I give up. Good luck!

rob, just take a breath. You went from "I'll take any and all advice!" to getting rather defensive about the situation. Do what you want. Do what you feel is best. We are all here making suggestions based on only the limited information you've provided. If you don't like our suggestions, then don't take it. It's your call. But it's nothing to get worked up about. We're only trying to help.

>> already knew she didn't want traditional gifts, but I want to. A little something.

Well, what you want is against her religion! Isn't that offensive? I sure would consider it so! Her religion indicates no gifts. So, no gifts! I recommend that you get over what YOU want to do and honor her instead of yourself.

As far as contributing to the honeymoon, I already said that I find that crass, but perhaps that would let you to have your way.

" Rob, you come here asking advice and then drop additional details as you get annoyed at the responses. The latest is it going from "only have a Zoom invite" to "involvement." And YES the details matter as you yourself can see in the way the conversation shifts each time. I give up. "

and

" You went from "I'll take any and all advice!" to getting rather defensive about the situation. "

Well said, in both instances.

I think Pudgeder nailed it in the very first response. Write the couple a lovely note and take your friend to lunch, maybe after she has photos to share with you. Best response ever!

I answered early on, before I knew that the not believing in gifts was a religious angle. That does change it for me. I would absolutely respect that and leave it at that. editing to add, a nice personal note sounds about right.

So many of the responses are right!

It's a small wedding, with few, but not without involvement. Many many wedding gift answers can learn from this.

Anything more is from people that want to impose their thoughts. Explanation doesn't make excuses. I stand no different than I did from the first post. Just because you're curious doesn't mean I lied. Never once did I lie, or withhold important information.

Keep pushing, keep accusing, but I never lied, I didn't withhold.

So many good ideas! Despite upset people. Thanks for those who have been open-minded.

I guess I should say this, show me what you would have said differently, had you known every single thing up front?

What exactly is wrong?

No one tried to pull the wool over your eyes.

I gave the facts, all that mattered, and the rest really were irrelevant.

Oh, of course. Not so clear to others and not as you suggest.

But you didn't provide all the relevant facts upfront. They came separately over several posts. People gave you answers based on the scant information you initially provided. You came back to clarify and add more information. Then get peeved when people don't give you the answer you're looking for.

Hi rob,

Maybe if you'd said something like "I'll appreciate" (or "... consider") " ... any ... and all advice" originally, it would have been better received. I considered it to be like that in the place, as I don't want anyone to feel dragooned into doing what I suggest.

Might have forestalled some disagreements later ... and the rather unsurprisin "I told you so!" as well.

Their guiding agency doesn't like funding and gifting personally important celebrations, of which a wedding appears to be one but then it appears that honeymoons ... aren't.

I don't envy you your dilemma, rob.

ole joyful

OK, so I admit I haven't read all the responses. And if we're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, my experiences are somewhat limited other than one of DH's uncles married a woman who was of the religion. I don't know that 'wedge' even quite describes what took place in the family who always have and always will consider themselves Catholic even those to don't attend regularly. Not that any of that is important.

What I just read from the JW website. Cut and pasted:

Will there be wedding gifts?

The Bible encourages generosity. (Psalm 37:21) Jehovah’s Witnesses are happy to give and receive wedding gifts. (Luke 6:38) However, Witnesses avoid soliciting gifts or publicly announcing the names of the givers.

If that's universally true, I'd say you are back to square one. If you'd like to give a gift, then quietly give one. Give what you would give to any young couple that's within your budget. If it would be fun for you to put together a picnic basket, then do that. A little hard for me to know how to be specific or if a very young couple who needs basics when I know nothing about them, No matter their beliefs, they will need to cook, make up a bed, put towels in shower...all the rest.

I'm never too excited to see on gifting websites places to donate to the honeymoon. My own was pretty modest and what we could afford. I've seen opportunities to buy honeymoon experiences on the trip the bride and groom are planning, like a spa day, diving lesson, intimate dinner by a private chef in their suite...and I skip those, head for the rest of the registry if I'm not close enough to the couple to know first hand what might thrill them to open, keep, have. Best of luck with your choice, I can only say do what makes you happy and don't overthink it. It won't be a lethal error no matter what you do.

The Bible encourages generosity. (Psalm 37:21) Jehovah’s Witnesses are happy to give and receive wedding gifts. (Luke 6:38) However, Witnesses avoid soliciting gifts or publicly announcing the names of the givers.

If that's universally true, then how is the GFM supposed to work? Your name is right up there on the website for all to see; doesn't get much more public than that! Of course you can donate anonymously, but that leaves you the choice of remaining anonymous (which frankly kind of defeats the purpose of giving a gift in this case) or "subtly" dropping a hint that you're the anonymous donor. Awkward.

IMO a Go Fund Me is essentially a solicitation. The picnic basket would be a ”freely given gift”.

"I guess I should say this, show me what you would have said differently, had you known every single thing up front?"

Several things.

For one, had your rewrite expressed the same apparent disappointment at not having gotten invited to the shower or an in person invite to the wedding, but included the fact that it's a family-only affair, I would have started by saying you shouldn't be upset about that; exceptions could lead to more hurt feelings among others.

If you had said that as a rule they don't engage in gift exchange for religious reasons, but did set up a GFM account for the honeymoon, I would have said that the safest thing to do is donate to the GFM and called it a day.

If you had gone a step further and said they were JW (if that's what they are) then I would have said that based on my reading your understanding of their gift restrictions is incorrect. While they don't do "gifts of obligation" for national or religious holidays or birthdays, they do seem to be fine with unsolicited gifts for weddings, housewarmings, just because, etc. So give whatever you'd like. Or not!

"show me what you would have said differently, had you known every single thing up front?"

We are still left wondering and assuming that the religious aspect is that they are JW. But if that is not the case then their religious objections may be different from our assumptions. But we are operating in the dark even now.

If they are JW, then giving and receiving wedding gifts should not be an issue and you should feel free to give what you are most comfortable with, be it to their GFM or something else.

If they are not JW and their religious objections are otherwise then all I can suggest is, whatever the objection, apparently the GFM is ok with them, so you can always just do that.

FWIW, I don't believe there are Jehovah's Witnesses police - or any other religion police in the USA, AFAIK. I've known people of that faith with varying degrees of observance, so I wouldn't assume I know how strict they are.

carol, if you don't know how strict they are, though, then better to stay within the guidelines than not and cause a problem. For example, if I were having Jews over and didn't know how strict, I probably wouldn't serve pork just to be safe....or if they were Hindu, I'd probably serve vegetarian...

Without delving into the religion and making guesses and assumptions, there is exactly one gift that we know for sure they want and will be appreciated. To quote Rob from above, "I don't understand why people want to go against what somebody wants?"

Rob, just do whatever you want. I think that is what will make you happy, which is, of course, the only important thing.

(Sigh)

I gave all the relevant facts. I never knew there were so many forum police as to what "completeness" means. I disagree. I am allowed.

And to be specific, since narrow views are the only right answer. I'll take any and all answers about the level and type of gift. Not any and all answers as to what I write. You write your way, and I will write mine.

" I'm so confused.I'll take any and all advice! "

I do not understand why Rob even posted a question. Our help was NOT wanted, never mind the post.

Your help about the gift was wanted ;)

What's so hard to understand about that? The divergence to my person has been totally unnecessary.

Really? You can reread your original post and think you gave all the relevant facts? Fine, here's my response with no further assumptions made:

"Don't give her a gift if she doesn't believe in gifts of any sort."

Do you think that's a good answer? I don't, in fact based on the subsequent conversation I KNOW it's not, but it's the only one I can make without thinking beyond your original words.

Rob, you'll be here all day explaining to them and they'll just keep piling on more because that's the fun part of this for them. Don't give them that reward.

Whatever, Eileen, I'm just annoyed because like most here I tried to give thoughtful responses and then she changes her story. Like how she initially agreed that the religious aspect "was worth mentioning. It's probably that part which is bothering me" but then later comes back and says the details were irrelevant to her question, and rather rudely states, "Seriously, anything else you think is important, is important to you, not the situation."

>> Rob, you'll be here all day explaining to them and they'll just keep piling on more because that's the fun part of this for them. Don't give them that reward.

E'gads. I find no fun in this nor am I (or others, IMO) "piling on". I want to be responsive to questions and do think of the situation and offer suggestions. But I don't like to waste my time thinking of something to help the OP or offering that to the OP, which is exactly what I feel I've done here, because it started with a simple question and then was expanded upon, and she seems to only want answers that will fit with HER agenda.. And .... so ..... no more wasted time on this thread. D.o.n.e.