Yes, that is exactly one of the big problems with the Dim Sum I had at the awful restaurant described above, the filling looked and tasted like it had been run through the garbage disposal. I decided then and there that if I was ever going to have Dim Sum again it would be my own making. Also, the sauces on many of the dishes at that horrible restaurant were full of MSG and extremely salty. I am allergic to MSG. I'm not sure why Dim Sum has not become one of the big trends in US dining, like having a moment like tapas or wood fired pizzas did . . .

Dim sum did have that moment awhile back, but there's some much fiddly skill involved, and specialty steamers, so it probably didn't pass too far out of the purview of restaurants with a bevy of Chinese aunties and uncles in the back, making them.

There's an okay “Chinese” place near me where I'm pretty sure they buy their appetizers. The shrimp are standard American breaded and fried and look like they come from the reastaurant supply—and they're a lot better than most of their ilk. Mr P likes them. The dim sum, limited as they are, are similarly good, and I think think they too come frozen from the suppliers. They're too perfect, have the textury fillings you're taking about, and the lightest, most cravable bao, ever. The rest of the food there is pedestrian, Except the green beans. They don't over cook them, and they're pretty wonderful, but that's the beans themselves being allowed to be their best. But perhaps providing superior produts to other restaurants would be a good business plan, and provide a more humane work schedule than overseeing a staff of dough fiddlers.

Or maybe a secret, highly overpriced, popup, where the select few can watch Chef Liu make her delights, and pay for entertainment. Do they do those in France?

Many good Chinese chefs have left and returned to China. They can have a much better life and get better paid in China.

dcarch

I've noticed more recently increased demand for authentic ethnic cuisine versus "frenchified" versions. Mexican in France, of course, being treated the worst. (Even Italian does not escape fully unscathed). Some cuisines like Vietnamese and Japanese fare better. However, I am now seeing interest in more authentic cuisines, even with regional variants showing up. I think there may be a market for it in France, especially in areas with decent tourist/expats flows and/or well traveled French. However, Chinese and/or dim sum seem to be somewhat unchartered, although it appears there is now a trio of restaurants in Paris that do house-made XLB (and other dim sum) all from the same owners, which indicates some popularity. Perhaps outside the capital there will be increased interest.

In my area of California there is of course a lot of dim sum, and definitely growth in regional cuisine. "Dumpling" specialists seem to be on the rise, with a number of new openings near me (as in about a mile or two), although none has really impressed me.

Can you maybe try to look up in the cities you will be in? Asking about the whole country of France is a bit akin to asking for a good dim sum place in Texas.

DD is thinking about starting a little dim sum cafe in Marseille. She has friends who are chefs in local restaurants and know that business, other friends who have started small retail businesses and know the biz rent:license/tax stuff, and friends who are piecing together income from multiple part-time jobs in bars/cafes and know how to work front of house.. They are all excited to help her. She’s working on a business plan, visa plan, etc and will decide if it makes sense.

Marseille is full of hip young people open to different cuisines - and gentrifying Parisians, grumble DD’s friends. The city has a long tradition of non-French food, because of all the immigration. DD’s friends think there will be demand enough to support a (very) small place if the food is really good and the place not stodgy. Rents for small storefronts look fairly reasonable.

She’s been planning to apply to business school, but is unclear on just what she’d do with an MBA, isn’t confident she’d get into a top tier program, and the tuition at those programs is eye-watering. My alma mater (UC Berkeley) charges $150,000 for the two year program now. The top European programs (LBS, HEC, etc) aren’t cheap either. She’s also not ready to leave Marseille.

My thought is that starting and running a little French business would be educational, potentially fun, might just support her (very thrifty) lifestyle, scratch an itch she’s had for a long time, and could help with a future B-school application. Anyway, when to take a chance, if not in your twenties?

It may or may not happen. Who knows. She’ll need to find the right space in the right place, everything will have to align, the French govt will have to give her a visa, and things will need to pencil out without assuming a miserable lifestyle. .

When the dim sum arrives, feel if the steamer basket is warm and damp. At the places that just microwave frozen stuff - more common than should be - the basket will be cool and dry. Ick.

The place I was talking about has better dim sum than the rest of their menu. It arrives warm with condensation, but not wet. I have (in sloth) microwaved from frozen TJ's at home, and they're not like that! I think they're steamed properly, but I still think they're boughten, unless they have a specialty dim sum chef who is vastly superior to the rest of the kitchen crew. Possible, but doubtful. Same with the really good shrimp, which could in theory be house made but they're so not Chinese!

Re the plans, you can probably pass the theoretical part of the MBA to Ms. L as she needs it, but some general how to run a business in France coursework might be worthwhile. Coursera has an entrepreneurship course from Wharton, and there are France specific startup courses--some for expats--as well, online for little to no money. B-school is necessary only for getting B-school jobs, but there is useful content available out there for people who just want to run a business.

I think she could do well with a Chinese restaurant for the kind of clientele you mentioned, but perhaps, unless she can find an auntie brigade to make it, that dim sum not be what she hangs her hat on. If she can start with things that are fast and fairly easy to prep and make and ease into the high skill, time consuming, fraught kitchen things as the place gets going and she can bring in more help it might work better. Or maybe have a "dim sum day" each week that people need to make reservations for. Create a buzz.

Yeah, lo mai gai (lotus leaf wrapped sticky rice) seems a lot less time consuming to prepare than shao mai, and shao mai less time consuming than har gow (shrimp dumpling) or xiao long bao (soup dumpling), per likely € of revenue.

Why doesn't your DD start a market stall? She can see if there really is a demande for her stuff or not without the expense of a restaurant. Bear in mind that the second you start a business here the state is all over you like a rash for your taxes and contributions. Start small and take fewer risks.

I know you're very in love with Marseilles, but it isn't France. It's a very special town, renowned mainly for crime and often dodgy immigrants. It isn't know for its cuisine.

What young people want today is something different and healthier than traditionally offered. You'll find small outlets selling some great food all over France.

Another great option these days is the food truck that works outside of the market environment. The mayor of my nearest big town is trying to get a collection of quality food trucks into a part of the town for at least 4 days of the week to attract people in to walk, visit, eat .....She can ask at the Mairie if there are plans for something like that...A food truck would allow her to do parties, weddings, other outside events.... could be a lot af fun especially if she teamed up with a cocktail/beer truck and a music truck. Imagine the evenings!!!

I'd start researching the visa issues. There is an entrepeneur visa that requires a 30K investment (ahem, dad). There is also a talent visa (and of course, one by marriage). I've heard from some that are navigating the French system, as Islay said, is a nightmare for new businesses.

The young French do seem to like their trendy places, with good decor and are willing to try healthy, unique cuisine or even unhealthy treats. But it also has to be at a sharp price point. Seems like Marseilles has a decent Chinese population as well --- there seem to be a lot of Chinese restaurants in Marseille. I'd say though, due to the presence of shao mai at Picard ("siu mai aux crevettes") the awareness is decent.

Something to consider too is supply chain. Does the area have it? It's one thing to find ingredients for dinner or friends. Another to have a reliable supply chain in quantity and quality to feed how many covers? 20, 50, ?? Some stuff might be easy, others not so much.

I didn't see this point brought up yet, so figured it would be wise to add in to the mix.

I think perhaps the labor to profit margin for Dim Sum is not good. If you have a big staff churning out the Dim Sum for throngs of guests, you can get some economy of scale. That was the way it was at that place in China town I mentioned, but also this was in the early 70s so I have no idea what the Dim Sum scene even there is like. I imagine that just like most restaurants, the stuff is not made in-house.

Just to compare, there was a really nice, house-made tapas restaurant one small town over, and it closed before the pandemic. We loved going there and so did many other folks, so I don't know that it was a customer base thing. The restaurant business is brutal, and if you don't have a core population from which to pull your staff . . . good people move on so need to be constantly resupplied. Even the awful places in my small town can't find consistent staffing right now . . .

Seems like Dim Sum is made for the food truck life. Finding spots to park where folks can stop by after church, after work . . . etc. I have no idea the pros and cons of that kind of business either . . . it was de rigueur for eating on campus when I was attending Drexel University. Interestingly, no dim sum although I seem to recall a crepe truck . . .

Eating out is going through a huge economic restructuring/re-imagining. Even pubs in Great Britain are having trouble attracting younger clients. But if you can get the right vibe going . . ,. Noodle joints had their day with millenials in the US. Cost is going to be huge. Folks have to weigh the cost (and not just economic, exposure to all the dangers of our evolving public spaces) vs the benefit of the experience. In my small town, there is an open, airy, well ventilated cafe that is booming right now. Run by the local women's shelter to give women a chance to gain skills, earn and income and get on their feet after leaving abusive situations.

I suggested the market stall as a way to test the waters. DD has some doubts, for various practical and marketing reasons. The food truck will probably be too complicated - she doesn’t have anywhere to store it.

One of her Italian friends opened a little bike shop right in her neighborhood, which just had its 1 year anniversary (I got photos of the party) so she’s going to pick his brain.

Islay, Marseille indeed doesn’t feel traditionally French to me either. It is a city with a lot of young people from not-France - Italy, US, she’s been meeting some Turkish - and other young French escaping from the cold of Northern France, the high prices of Paris, etc, It has quite a music scene, kind of French punk rock ish stuff. One of her friends has a band that has been taking off, they are touring France a lot and apparently were featured this season in “Emily in Paris”, a show I’m told that French people hate to watch but watch to hate, if that makes sense.

I think we’re going to spend some time in other South of France cities too. I think SWMBO might like Aix. DD doesn’t, and i’m told that if you like Marseille you don’t like Aix, and vice-versa. SWMBO actually likes Italy better than France - gasp. Selfishly, I prefer France (language)..

I had no idea food trucks were a thing in France. It's a very good idea if the logistics and costs work. Much less overhead to start out with, and Roy Choi made them cool, here, at least. Fitting one out for Dim Sum, i.e., multiple plumbed steamers, likely wouldn't be cheap, but could still cost less than doing the same in bricks and mortar.

Here, there are garages specializing in food trucks. You park there in the off hours, can prep there while on land power, which also runs your coolers, etc., and, so far as I know, there's a site mechanic who can do general and small repairs, esp. automotive. If there were such a thing there, and the membership fees were reasonable enough, it could work. I would suggest she follow IC's advice and make inquiries. If nothing else, it will inform her knowledge of the food scene. Besides the plans for a food truck park, if any, it's also important to learn the local parking/sales/queueing laws.

The raw ingredients are not a problem to find locally. Some adaption imay br needed, pork is a mainstay protein in Chinese cuisine but there is a large Muslim population and vegetarnism is common enough among young people that some non-pork, non-meat offerings will be needed,

I was thinking about the prep time. thinking that if the food is exclusively dumplings then the daily quantity of dumplings will be daunting, but if other dishes (that don’t have to be individually hand-built) are a significant part of the mix then it might be more manageable.

Good luck in your search for dim sum, John! If you find anything do let us back here in the US know.

To be honest, we've had better frozen dim sum than some of the "housemade" restaurant fare here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Some of the frozen stuff one can pick up at Ranch 99 is quite good, actually. Not all of it, but some, LOL.

Most dim sum places don't use carts any longer; too inefficient and labor-intensive. Plastic menus with descriptions and/or pictures, erasable markers - waitstaff picks it up, confirms what you want and how many, and it's delivered to your table as they're taken out of the steamers. Much better as it actually arrives HOT instead of lukewarm.

There's a dim sum place in Contra Costa County that is definitely run by Vietnamese. They used fish sauce instead of soya in some of the dishes!

Meet the "chef"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysFd4bKXBG4

I was in LA. Went to a great Chinese soup bun place. In the kitchen, all the workers were Hispanics.

dcarch

This is true for any cuisine. Most of the kitchen help in SoCal are Mexican or Central American. So are most of the casual labor, and a good portion of the cleaners. While some are unskilled, most are experienced and hard working. The reason I was touting the aunties is that they already know how to make at least some dim sum. How to roll out the dough, how to seal wrappers and make pleats, how much filling to put in, etc. Steep learning curves on the fiddly stuff. My guess is that Ms. L will be lucky to get, and afford, ready and eager to work help, not experienced cooks and kitchen workers. Aunties looking for pocket money from churning out dumplings would be a great find.

How will she do for a working visa? A niece married a Texan on Satuday and he was telling me that he will have to jump through a lot of hoops to get his papers in order, even after marriage to a French girl.

John she can rent a lock-up for very little money to store a truck. Our caravan storage is 250E per year.

The overheads for starting a restaurant, unless she's very determined, are going to be very big. She needs to find a friendly restaurateur perhaps rather than a bike shop owner. Bikes have become super trendy since covid. Restaurants, not so much. People are really looking for inexpensive. Be it for their food, their holidays.... for example people are skiing a lot less this winter and are coming to places like here as a skiing holiday is just too expensive today.

European energy prices are going through the roof and many restaurants are actually closing. Bakers are having a terrible time because of that.

Apparently, people here expect chinese restaurants to be "all you can eat" types..... This from another website is interesting.

Idée de restaurant #2 : ouvrir un restaurant chinois

Les restaurants chinois, japonais et américains font partis des restaurants qui fonctionnent le mieux. L’explosion des restaurants japonais ces dernières années ont amené les restaurants chinois à repenser leur offre.

Le secret des restaurants asiatiques pour être rentable est la formule à volonté. Le menu All you can eat pour 13,50€ s’est imposé ces dernières années dans les restaurants chinois. Les portions consommées avec ce type de formule ne sont pas beaucoup plus élevées que celles qui sont consommées à la carte.

De plus, proposer un menu à volonté où les clients vont se servir eux-mêmes permet de réduire les coûts liés au service en salle.

Proposez également un service de livraison afin d’accroître votre chiffre d’affaires.

This article is very informative. https://ehonline.eu/concept-restauration/

Whatever she chooses to do, best of luck! It's a great adventure whichever way she goes.

The thing Dim Sum has going for it is it is an "experience" based dining concept. At least I think the original Dim Sum was. When I was in Berlin Germany my brother and I visited a place called "Cafe Morganland" which I guess literally translated would be Cafe Morning Land. They had a wonderful Sunday brunch buffet with piano music going on in the background. Very sunny airy spot, even back then. That's the way the tapas place I mentioned was. As a side note, I've always wanted to open a tea shop, recalling the wonderful afternoon tea I experienced at a high end London hotel back in the day. However, who knows if the hotel is even still running, let alone the tea room. Like I said, eating out is in transition. Of course I'll bet running a food truck in France is no where near as easy as in the US, and it's not even that easy here.

I'm wondering if selling a "Dim Sum Package" for takeout might be popular. I don't know if this relates, but I am seeing a whole lot of "garden packages" in the horticulture trade, which is a new trend.

MorgEnland means Orient In German.

Land of the rising sun?

Good luck to the daughter, whatever she decides. I think now is a perfect time for her to try out possibilities, so if she thinks she'd like to get into the food service business, it's the perfect time in her life to try. She may love it, she may hate it, she may fail or she may be an amazing success, but at this point in her life it's a lot easier to make a leap of faith.

I've never had dim sum, but anything that's small bits or bites is going to be labor intensive. My experience in the restaurant business is limited to the bar and grille I owned here in Michigan, I've never been to France, so I can't conjecture on the differences in permits, requirements, etc. We avoided any kind of small/individual serving menu item because it just took too much expensive man power to produce them. If your daughter is very proficient at assembling dumplings, it might not be too egregious for her. Someone like me, I'd go broke, LOL.

Annie

Islay, I'm surprised your nieces new husband is having troubles. I know a variety of blended Franco-American couples and although the paperwork is copious (it is still France after all), the process is straightforward and streamlined.

Not the case, as I mentioned, for work visas when you are opening your own business. I've only heard tangentially from others about the process, however.

My sense is that food trucks are not active within the center of the major cities/grande villes, but are more common in the outyling areas and even the suburns. I know of one roundabout that is lined with them in the outskirts of Nice, with roasted chicken (and pomme de terre) trucks, wood fired pizza and of course, burgers. I've seen them in Provence, as well, but more in the countryside. I do see a number of buffets and takway spots, but there are also many regular restaurants.

I see Marseille's unemployment is finally below double digits, but are they having labor shortages? I know last summer in Nice the restaurateurs were complaining of labor shortages post-COVID, as workers sought new replacement careers. I think you are spot on in that she would have to develop veggie options and non-pork chicken and shrimp options. .

For a little competitive research for the business plan, check out this Parisian effort (new, first small resto was opened in 2019): link

Labor shortages - I am not sure. I know that all of DD's friends in Marseille, French and otherwise, who were un/under-employed last year are working this year.

It will be interesting to see what it costs to open a small place. In the US, opening a restaurant is expensive - just building out the kitchen costs a fortune to install all the commercial HVAC, stainless surfaces, impermeable flooring, fire suppression, and other equipment. My friend who had a bike shop-bar tried for years to offer some minimal food, and all the improvements the city was demanding just to serve steam table-type food would have cost him $40,000. When I look at the small cafes/hole-in-the-wall eateries in Marseille, they don't seem to have much special in the way of improvements/equipment.

Is she aware of the obligations - there are 2 training courses that you have to take, for example. I found these 2 websites that are interesting.

https://www.shpe.fr/comment-ouvrir-un-restaurant-formations-obligatoires-et-demarches-a-suivre/?gclid=CjwKCAiA3KefBhByEiwAi2LDHCYIX3oNqfzPzI-BeI8xZSzShZ-lny1z8JlOM2hLIzPd-Gt-oSIzaRoCt4EQAvD_BwE

https://www.pole-emploi.fr/actualites/le-dossier/pratique/creation-ou-reprise-dentreprise/ouvrir-un-restaurant/ouvrir-un-restaurant--les-etapes.html

Both are pretty essential reading.

As for food trucks, we do have them in the centre of towns!!! They're in every market for starters. The rules for selling food in any format is complicated. It is really important she does it right or the authorities will be all over her like a rash.

Gooster, I didn't say he was having troubles, just that French administration is enough for anyone to lose the will to live. He's only been here since the end of December and he's got a lot on his plate..... different culture, language, not being able to work yet..... not easy. I have had the right to dual nationality for the last 25 years but every time I go onto the website to start proceedings, my spine shudders and I start to weep........ :)

Thank you, Islay! I've sent those to her.

@Islay Corbel I didn't write they were not in the center of towns, just that they seem to be absent in the center of the grand villes. They only seem to be outside the center. I do see trucks or rather trailers brought in for special events, like the Fete de Noel or as a regular stall. But in smaller towns and cities, yes. I suspect some cities may have regulations to protect the brick and mortar restaurants. (ETA: Per thislink on training courses, they use an example of Marseille and say only pizza trucks are allowed in public areas)

I can only imagine the extra bureaucracy for a restaurant in France.

Gooster, in your local market don't you have people selling food? What do you mean by 'grandes villes" (they're feminine)?

This article is so very typical of what we expect in Marseilles. You have to laugh. https://www.le-grand-pastis.com/food-truck-marseille-association/#:~:text=Lup%C3%A9rini%20exhume%20une%20d%C3%A9cision%2C%20vot%C3%A9e,%C3%A0%20500%20%E2%82%AC%20par%20jour.

Sorry for non French speakers. But it is funny and Gooster will understand.

Gooster's last sentence sent me looking for answers. We all know about the famed French passion for bureaucracy, but California has layers of it, too, and I was wondering just how different it was. I found this jaunty article that skims the surface on that front, but has some interesting things to say about opening a restauant in France: https://www.eurostartentreprises.com/en/business-advice/how-to-open-a-restaurant-in-france

This one is lawyers, so theirs is focused on registering a company and getting licenses. Both also mention that French restaurants, as well as hotels, must have a rating. They didn't say what kind if rating, but I assume it's like our health inspection rating, which must be posted. https://www.lawyersfrance.eu/open-a-restaurant-in-france

It sounds pretty similar to here. Need a slew of permits, inspections and licences, from the French equivalent to our civil service (no hurry) employees. They have live entertainment permits, like we do. There seems to be some leeway for vegan, but there's another permit for using any kind of animal. We have the health department licenses, including ratings based on things invluding what shelf the meat is stored on. They have something similar-ish, though I'm not sure if that is the same as ”rating”.

I read some other things not worth linking, but the bureaucracy sounds pretty normal. The exception is employment. From what I read in the first link, seasonal help can be given temporary contracts, and you can give a new employee a probationary contract, but you pretty well can't fire ”permanent” employees. ”once staff are permanent, the law makes it very difficult to dismiss them if they do a bad job” That would scare the carp out of me, having no experience or knowledge about how one manages a business under those circumstances.

California (as well as Oregon) is an “at-will” state, where as long as one isn't discriminating by prejudice against a protected class, any employee can be fired at any time for no reason. If there's a personal or union contract, there may be other provisions, but otherwise, you can pay the wages/benefits due, and close the door behind them. If you have a severence policy, the former employee is generally required to agree not to sue (discrimination doesn't count for that, which is why documenting cause is still a good idea, even if you have no clue that the person is a member if a protected class). These intricacies, I understand. What to do with a bad waiter who can't be fired? Clueless!

Islay, my French* wasn't up to it, but Google Translate, using a thick accent (questionable, but understandable, word choices), did the job. Those anecdotes are hysterical! The law is meant to be prohibitive, right? Love the can’t we all just get along ending, and the vision of my mind's lawmaker who thinks food trucks are a blight on the landscrape jumping up, smashing his fist on the table and yelling, ”NO!”

*Half a year of study decades ago and lapsed proficiency in Mexican Spanish.

It's strangly comforting to know that bureaucracy is awful somewhere else too LOL Trying to do anything here is very hard if you don't speak French. Lots of Brits come here every year and give up and go home. It's hard to learn properly when people come over as a couple as they have less incentive to learn. I guess I was lucky as I came with 2 small children and had to get on with it. Also, too many French are so happy to meet en English speaker that they jump in to practice...... As John's DD has been working here, I imagine her French is good. the training courses that are obligatory would be impossible otherwise.

@islay In the two markets, the stands of course sell fresh food and some prepared items. There may also be a socca stand, but that is cooked at a nearby restaurant and brought in. There are no trucks around and no stands cooking food. But the markets are lined with restaurants, takeaways, boulangeries and even a food hall. The only trucks I've seen are in the periphery, near the big box stores outside the limits or in special events like the Christmas market.

yes, I wrote too quickly -- I meant les grandes villes en France. But after checking, I see that they exist just fine in other cities, like Paris. Marseille stands out in this regard.

I did laugh at the typical French bureaucratic situation: food trucks are forbidden, but a "stand alimentaire" (food stand) is OK.

@pillog the employment laws are indeed very complex. So much so, France is infamous for having many companies with just 49 employees. At 50 employees, a whole new set of obligations kick in, making it onerous. So companies choose not to grow, or simply start a new one. I've heard only offhand from expats that setting up a company was difficult, but that may have been related to the entrepeneur visa process (which involves establishing the new enterprise and getting a business plan approved). Even if your French is good, legal documents can be a terrible thing to read (the same is true in english, but we don't actually reserve verb forms for formal written situations)

I'm sure it's hard here, too, but people do it all the time. You have to have either a work visa or entrepreneur visa if you want to work in the business (restaurant), not just invest, and you need five years in the US after becoming a permanent resident (which does generlly include a right to work) to apply for citizenhip. But lots of luck getting it! There is a massive backlog, and people wait years just to get the required interview.. (It used to be a few months.) But people do it. Around here, more that 200 languages are spoken, and there's likely someone who can help. There are courses offered for learing what you need to do. Population groups have resource centers where people can get help with all the forms, and guidence about requirements, running a small business. It looks like they have similar groups in France. It all boils down to if you haven't got a clue, keep learning stuff until you get some.

In the square near DD's apartment, Reformes Canabiere, on market days, one food truck appears pretty regularly. I think he sells some sort of halal meat. Sometimes there is a pizza truck in the evenings. I see the occasional food cart amidst the market stalls, usually selling coffee or pastries or gyros or the loathsome French taco.

What I have seen, which is super cute, is former newspaper kiosks repurposed into little takeaway food places. It's a great idea.

Mlle. Johnsdaughter is a West Coast girl--surely she knows how to make a good taco? The famous Roi Choi made his name on a Korean taco truck. Perhaps Mlle. Liu could feature "Chinese" and Mexican tacos--good ones--as a quick assembly kind of food, and dim sum as suits her whim to make them. If you squint, a taco is sort of a grilled dim sum. That would be intriguing and potentially profitable. Could probably even be done in a cute revamped kiosk. :)

West Coast is not the same as Mexican, and I associate Oregon (and Washington) with some of the worst Mexican food. I also very much dislike Korean tacos - I do not find the combination of Korean and Mexican to be palatable, based on my experience from Korean taco trucks.

I do like deep fried empanadas made with masa, however, and I make those frequently. That is getting very far from dim sum. I also prefer Japanese gyoza to Chinese dim sum. For me, dim sum is too bland, but if it were made in Hunan or Szechuan style, I would love it. What I have had in Monterey Park was more like Cantonese or Taiwanese style, which I find much less interesting or appealing.

In a city with a large Arabic/Muslim population, I think spicier food would generate more interest, and Szechuan style would fit the bill. If you want to go to fusion, then Algerian would be much better than Mexican. I love French-Algerian food, and I think Chinese-Algerian is a possibility. I personally am not fond of Moroccan food, but Chinese-Moroccan might appeal to some. But I think authentic Hunan-Szechuan is a better choice.

Being able to make delicious food is not going to be a guarantee for a successful business in food venture. Good chefs fail all the time.

Add a few more considerations will improve chances.

1. Read all local media food writers'/critics' reviews and writings and get ideas as to what appeals to them. Topics in Food/drink and venue interior design, for instance.

2. Get to know food writers/critics. One good review is enough to give you instant success.

3. Try to practice a little food plating.

dcarch

Lars, there are bad tacos in Mexico, too. My assumption was that Ms. Liu has tasted good tacos. I know she knows how to cook. Tacos aren't rocket science. I'm sure she has the skills to make a good one. I don't know if she wants to. I don't know if there are no good tacos locally just because the populace doesn't want them. I don’t know if they'd sell well enough once the novelty was gone. But I have no doubt that the young lady has the ability to make good ones.

Any kind of food outlet in France is going to come in one of 2 categories. Good food or "malbouffe". Most, if not all, fast food falls into the malbouffe category. There are so many chains..... sadly from your side of the pond, that have flooded the market with everything from bad burgers,(macdo), KFC, tacos, we even have "an American diner" in a shopping centre near here, but I don't know anyone who's eaten in it. People take their kids as a treat, generally LOL. Adults don't want to admit that they might enjoy it HAHAHA.

I think what people want is diffferent, healthy, inexpensive, fun, hip, .......I was teaching a young Mum last Friday who was talking about trying to find somewhere quick and tasty to eat with her 8 year old son at the weekend but NOT MACDO! Japanese food is very popular. but is expensive. I suppose because it's so labour-intensive. Vietnamese food trucks do great trade here. Poké bowls go down well, as does Bo Bun. I bet she can take a popular option and add her twist.

The best fast food we've had in ages was last summer in Quimper in a small place where the guy just cooked chicken. He showed us the chicken and explained the 3 types or so of sandwiches we could have and the different sauces.... served with chips (fries to you lol) and a drink for 10E. He was doing eat in and take-away and was really busy. The food tasted really good and was just natural, good, wholesome food. The music was good and the atmosphere great.

IC, there's an old joke based on an older US government health campaign where meals were broken down into “four major food groups”, dairy, meat, grains, fruits and vegetables, and they recommended the number of portions from each per day. Or based on fast food, the joke was the four major food groups were salt, sugar, grease and starch. There aren't enough tourists to keep those places going, so there must be something appealing there.

I haven't been to France in ages, but I remember a ”fast food” lunch in a small town which was superb. I was with a group, and we stopped at a busy bakery. My friends were buying sweets, and buns to make sandwiches for when they found something (I guess at a grocery?) to put in them. I was tired and just wanted to sit in the square and look around. I got two pastries, one ham and one mushroom. They made them on sheet pans and cut them into rectangles. A brioche style dough, but flat, with a solid bottom and lattice top. Baked sandwiches, pastry style. Probably as much grease, starch, salt and sugar as McD’s, and even more absent of vegetables, but absolutely delicious. Inexpensive. And very French. No play space or sodapop though...

McDonald's is popular among people driving around the USA because they're renowned for their clean restrooms. I really don't think it's the food they're selling, but everything else it's wrapped in.

If sushi can become ubiquitous in a lot of mid scale places over here (USA) why not dim sum? Both are kind of labor intensive and have shelf life issues . . .

"This husband-and-wife startup has shipped 20 million soup dumplings since the start of the pandemic"

https://fortune.com/2023/02/15/chinese-food-startup-soup-dumplings-pandemic/

dcarch

I can't read the above article without a subscription.

I can't either, Islay.

Annie

A few old school dim sum places still exist in nyc. A favorite for events like birthdays for a crowd of co-workers for lunch. Have not been in 12+ years. One in Queens is still per head. All you can eat for 12$...i think it is 18$ now for lunch and much more for dinner and weekends. Lots of rolling carts and various stations to visit with a plate. Crispy duck, a seafood station, a desert station...

and a soft serve ice cream dealio, .. help yourself. Big parking lot and main dining room the size of a tennis court. Overflow event space same size so no waiting for a table. I always went straight to the crispy duck carver and hit the crab legs and seafood. (charged extra if anything is left on the table to aviod waste)

That said, we don't care for large dinner parties out. 4 best, six max.

During the first covid lockdown i mastered our favorite meals from a handful of small local cafés.

Turkish, Greek, Thai, Korean, Japanese,. Bistro French. Most have survived the pandemic by reaching a larger dining audience with pick-up meals and deliveries. Word gets out.

We no longer care for big plate mains with steak and potatoes and a couple spears of asparagus...$$$ A couple shared appetizers/starters. Meh

We would rather meet some friends for brunch or lite lunch. One new cafe we have had on the radar has a 'small bite' starter for 2 or 4. Looks amazing. I want 'wow'. Try new things and i'm sure it is much more fun for the staff to show off what they can do rather than be a robot with tweezers. (still looking for that menu)

Way too often we can do better at home.

I want healthy.

Good idea to look at successes. NoodleBar is coming up on 20 years. Chang was expected to fail. The favorites i mentioned above are tiny and some only have small cafe tables outside.

Nice simple menu at NoodleBar...

Sleeve you hit the nail on the head when you said that we do so much better at home. It's the same here. We"re so reluctant to go out and spend a lot of money or even a moderate amount when the food is really not great. Amongst us, we know that we can produce great plates of food. Mine will never look wonderful... I cook good food but I'm not talented in the plating up....It has never put my family or guests off. LOL

This is interesting especially as egards to the discussion of John's girlie and her ideas for a food outlet in France. I don't think expectations are very different in the US or here.

Agree with that we like what we cook at home best. We hardly go out to try new restaurants and if and when we do it has to be outdoor seating . This is not a problem atm because it’s summer here.

However, all that said, lets face it we are ’oldies’ I know not SO old but the food scene for the young and students in a city like Marseille is a vastly different scenerio to ’us’ going to a restaurant. Even a Dim Sum type.

I hope John’s daughter can give it a try and that it is successful even if only for a short length of time. She perhaps will feel fullfilled that she has tackled

this.

I went to the market yesterday as I wasn't working and have a grandson staying. We had a good look at the food trucks for our lunch. The population of my town is less than 4000. There was : Breton (filled galettes and crèpes), one specialising in small bites - they do apéritifs - Lébanese, BBQ, chicken roasted with potatoes, Vietnamese, Not a bad choice for a little town.