TeatimeAnn - So nice of you to remember my little condo kitchen. Thanks! No physical progress, but some of the HOA issues have been resolved... (Sigh) It has been quite a process. We have been working with the Home Owners Association board since February to determine the scope of our project. To make a very long, sad, story short... we will be able to accomplish a lot of our remodel, but we will not be able to add certain "common area" (read as inside the walls and ceiling) items. For example, no recessed lights, no gas line for a range, no exterior kitchen vent for the range etc. I am in California, so no recessed lighting might be a challenge to meet title 24 requirements. We are just now getting copies of all the required contractor documents for the HOA and will hopefully be able to start the demo soon. I've stopped holding my breath. Once the walls are open, then we get to reapply with the HOA and see what they approve for the remodel. Then it will be off to the city to see what they have to say. What a crazy, disappointing process.

Thanks so much for all of your replies! DH didn't have an opinion on which layout and I was leaning towards the second layout but wasn't sure, so I'm glad everyone confirmed that the second layout is the way to go. blfenton - good point about having more countertop room for wine bottles and glasses (& even other bar items) with the second layout. I wasn't even thinking of more countertop room! natschultz - and I agree the second layout will make it less claustrophobic, which is what I was afraid of with the first layout. For the 42" glass front upper, the dealer is actually ordering the cabinet "pieces" in the peppercorn color and then a local cabinetmaker will be putting the 42" cabinet together (Kraftmaid does not make a 42" wide by 42" tall cabinet) with reinforcement for stability. I hadn't thought about doing wine cubbies - that's an idea b/c I think the 9" pullouts are what's really driving up the price for this second layout. I do also like breezgirl's suggestion of replacing the 2 9" pullouts w/ 18" cab & drawer. breezygirl - I think with the second layout the dealer is trying to get the symmetry with the uc fridge centered between the 2 9" pullouts. I have no idea why I didn't think/ask about an 18" cab - I'm definitely not opposed to asymmetry as I have that in the first layout! And I definitely like that the 18" cab can fit more liquor than the pullouts;-) ellaf - no, I don't think the symmetry will come into play esp b/c we will be replacing the table, chairs and lighting but with what yet I don't know! I'm not opposed to the asymmetry in the bar area like breezygirl suggested with replacing the pullouts with 18" cab. I think an 18" cab would give us more storage space than the pullouts (& I'm not totally sold on functionality/practicality of the pull-outs). The dealer will be out at our house tomorrow afternoon, so I will ask him about replacing the 2 9" pullouts with the the 18" cab and the difference in price. And I will also ask him about wine cubbies, although I'm leaning more towards the 18" cab since I think the wine cubbies would provide less liquor storage than the pullouts. Many thanks for your help in this decision!!!

What's on the other side of the range run door? You might move the range closer to the door (12-18" cabinet on that side) no matter what size range you eventually choose. I'd stick with 18" if that door is important. This will break the base cabinet symmetry and might provide a logical reason for the top asymmetry. I like joy's idea of shelves or if moved closer to the door, a set of small picture ledges for spices or perhaps platters on edge over the small side - perhaps a tool rail underneath. If you both cook, I wouldn't move the range closer to the corner at all. My issue about wall chimney hoods next to cabinets is the difficult to reach space where the chimney hood touches the cabinet - or worse, almost touches the cabinet. Dust and kitchen goo settle on the side of the hood and there's that little place where the intersection is where your hand literally doesn't fit. I'd rather have a little gap so I could get my hand between the hood and the adjoining cabinet. Plus, it looks better to me not to have them crowded together. Another potential plus - the pot drawers might become wider. It does bring up the where does the backsplash stop question, tho. 30" v. 36" range. Good luck with those conversations! dh only wanted a few specifics and none of them had to do with cooking. I'm still looking for a way to work in a little red and green plaid (one of his specific requests). If you or your spouse doesn't know what 36" ranges cost, pricing a few might bring clarity.

Thanks for the comments so far. Keep them coming! Cindy, yes, I was similarly concerned about the limited space between the sink and rangetop, as well as the lack of landing space near fridge. We originally thought the counter near the dining room would be close enough (within 48" across from french door style fridge), but that doesn't seem to be the case. We might be able to go with a 33" fridge instead (maybe standard depth?), then have enough room to the left of it to put the microwave over there... Something to think about. Moving the door or wall between the dining room and kitchen, however, aren't appealing options. This particular house really calls for a more formal dining space, and the traffic pattern would be too awkward if the doorway were to be significantly relocated. I believe it's also load-bearing, so probably not feasible at this time anyway. Dilly, thanks for the reminder to not rush into anything. Good advice, as we're definitely feeling the urgency. I LOVE the idea of and L shape and an island, but wasn't seeing how that setup would be very functional. I think my initial idea was similar to yours--put the sink under the back window (although it wouldn't be aligned very well), the DW to the right of the sink, then have cabinets/counters all along that long wall. It would be a bit awkward dealing with the unmoveable wall in the middle of that run, but I guess we could have a break in the countertop there and disguise the wall with some sort of built-in hutch or something. The range could then be shifted to the right a bit, with the ovens at the far left (or even a not quite so far left end to the kitchen if we bump the pantry out as you suggest). My concern was that the space really doesn't seem large enough for an island, does it? If we allow 36" space between counters and island (which seems pretty minimal, really), and another 36" on the other side, plus another 12' or so for some open shelving on the wall between the DR, can really only fit an island that's about 3 or 3-1/2' wide. That doesn't seem like much, since we'd also want it to provide counter seating (and in which case we'd need to make that "walk-thru" lane to the backyard wider, too. It also doesn't seem like the island could be very long, since we'd need to allow for both counter depth and walkway at the short L end, and we don't also need to keep the traffic lane open for folks heading to the pantry or basement (guest quarters). Oh, and I was also worried that it would seem impossibly far from the fridge to the sink, even without an island to navigate around. Probably about 15', with a turn. I don't see anyplace else to put the fridge though, or any better use for that little corner between DR and basement stairs. Ugh. I'll think some more about these ideas. Looking forward to hear any other suggestions for this challenging space! PS - We like to use the DR for family dinners, as well as the "adult" dining when we have guests. Not enough room in there for all the kids, so really do want some eat-in space in kitchen, even if only for 3 or 4 people.