My gut - when I'm standing in the space and not over thinking - tells me that I need the color (whatever it is) to feel warm. So very dark stain on cherry, not black; or a lighter warm brown, not the popular gray-browns; etc.

Agree about the gut instinct on the color. Gray-browns are too dull for your space. Look at brown stains on maple doors. It might give the look you want plus the wam brown.

If your floors are hardwood, get some estimates for sanding and re-staining them. It could make an amazing impact on your whole house color scheme and open up more possibilities. Also consider if you want a matte (really good if you have 4 legged pet) or more formal shiny finish.

I don’t know if this will help, but I felt the need to warn you about my mom’s long term experience with Kraftmaid‘s Peppercorn finish on Maple.

She remoldeled her kitchen in 2005. I realize that her cabinets are now over 15 years old, but they truely look awful. Maybe they have improved their product over the last 15 years?

The peppercorn stain, (around every knob and handle where her clean knuckles or fingers occationally came into brief contact with the doors or drawer fronts as she opened them), has completely disinigrated away. That is the best way I can describe it.

She never used any harsh cleaners. She has been a single elderly lady the whole time, and is very gentle on her kitchen. Her house is full of beautiful wood antiques, and they all look pristine. But not her Kraftmaid cabinets. They are a real eyesoar unfortunately.

Anyways, just thought I would mention her experience with the peppercorn finish.

I don’t have a great photo, but here I zoomed in on a picture I had of her kitchen. You can kind of see the issue with the stain wearing through around the knobs on the uppers. Also notice above the drawer handle where the raised shaker part of the drawer would come into contact with the front of her hand as she pulled the handle.

Anyway, I hate to be a Debbie Downer. I would just advise you to do your research before going with that brand is all.

Your very first and second inspo photos you posted of dark cabs and white counter both have a light floor, with what looks like a matte finish rather than bowling alley waxy, and appears to be more buttery than orange/red. Details like those is what makes the inspo kitchens look cohesive. You can’t overlook the visual impact of those floors versus your floors.

do you have a brand of cabinetry? the thing is to bring in samples in the various stains. I could see cherry/ alder or hickory with medium to slightly darker stains. Cherry obviously runs reddish most times but not exclusively / alder takes the brown family and stays true. Hickory , once a medium to darkish stain is applied will even out and provides interest and not particularly red. I'd stick with shaker style and a transitional kitchen for your home . Not feelin the java or expresso on slab doors here....good slab doors in walnut with a special stain is a pricepoint that seems un needed. plan on hefty expenditure w counters..its an open plan. Below: 1st and 4th are cherry ..then hickory and alder number 2 and 3. a shaker style [they vary a bit] would be my pick.

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Dark stained oak looks very 80’s to me. But it’s not my kitchen. Walnut is beautiful. I personally like wood to be it’s natural tone. White oak cabinets are gorgeous. But if you want a super dark natural wood, those are exotics and are ridiculously expensive and hard to come by.

Danielle, I am cheering for you to successfully pull off dark stained, slab front, oak cabinetry - it will be a wonderful expression of your personality and therefore, bespoke and not following the crowd to become dated when the crowd changes direction. I say bespoke because of the unusual pairings. Oak feels Colonial America, Colonial Revival, 1950s Americana, rustic, traditional, detailed…Slab doors (especially shiny laminate without hardware) feel contemporary, urban, minimalist, unadorned…Dark stain is a twist on how we usually see Oak in yellow and orange tones…Certain dark shades can make wood look charred, also an interesting look.

I personally like your maple slab better because it seems to have a warmer hue (not sure if it’s the lighting or not). And I like the grain pattern of maple. I am partial to warmer toned wood. I did hear that maple is hard to stain,

I love the dark wood look on kitchens. (Look at my username!). For my new house I chose a dark choclatey brown stained cabinets. Slightly warm in tone. The cabinets were made to order by local company contracted by the builder. Wood is alder (we didn’t have a choice). It’s sofer than maple which I didn’t like but takes stain nicely and has a lovely tight grain pattern. I paired with datile white remedy 9” backsplash tiles and a white quartz counters with some lighy gray splotching. I’m a huge fan of mixing cooler toned tile with warmer tone wood. And the light and dark adds contrast, but not as harsh as vlack and white. My kitchen does have a ton of windows which keeps it from being too dark. Context is everything. I added under cab lighting for more brightness. I’ll see if I have photos to upload.

Dark and oak just is a waste. The grain needs to shine with dark it becomes flat.

I think oak slab doors in a dark stain could look refreshingly modern. I just worry that your kitchen doesnt have enough natural light to do justice to Peppercorn. What is the next lighter stain called?

My current lighting isn't very good--and Kraftmaid Peppercorn is a bit hard to photograph since it's so dark. But here are some attempts to capture how it looks next to the floors and brick. I tried to see if I could get some of the color variations that come out from different angles to appear.

In my light the plain sawn oak looks black--but it reads warm and has a lot more pattern beneath the finish than a painted door typically would have. (Peppercorn on cherry also reads black-but-warm, and is redder, but as there's no texture for the camera to register, it turns into a black hole in all my photos.)

Quartersawn oak and maple read very dark brown.

As this is about as dark a brown as I can get without crossing over to black, it's an interesting starting point. From here I could move a level or two lighter in the warm brown spectrum and see how that looks.

Is it useful to have a near-black finish on the kitchen cabinets in order to help the kitchen relate to the other rooms (which have the same floors with black bookcases, black piano, etc)? Or am I safe moving into more obviously brown browns? If I drop down a few levels, do you think I need black in some other kitchen finish for continuity?

Kraftmaid Peppercorn on Plain Sawn Oak (Slab Door):

Kraftmaid Peppercorn on Quartersawn Oak (Shaker door - not available on a slab door):

Kraftmaid Peppercorn on Maple (Slab Door):

I agree with dan1888 and arcy_gw that flat cut oak is not going to give you the elegant look you are going for. I gave another inspirational kitchen look to consider, as it is inspirational to me for my own future kitchen. These were described as quarter-sawn oak. They are panel fronts with a pillow edge that makes them look like Hershey's chocolate bars to me, very touchable! I love the effect they have on the stainless steel... makes me understand the term "steel-blue".

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The reason I am looking at dark chocolate as opposed to black is that I want it to be cohesive with the outside of my home, which is various shades of chocolate. The reason I chose the exterior chocolate colors is that our home came with a brown brick exterior front, very similar to your brown brick fireplace. For that reason, I suggest dark brown instead of black cabinetry.

You said you want an elegant look. So I have to ask if you are considering replacing your fireplace material and flooring too. I'm not being critical of the existing, but think you want to be consistent. If you replace the brown brick with black marble, for example, then you could reconsider black cabinets. Or if you paint the brick with a glossy black, that also would work better with black cabinets. Also try to think ahead to the whole color scheme. Black and white is a great start, but people on other posts then find there is something missing... color. And your choice of colors may help you decide between black and dark brown. Then there's the metallics. With chocolate, steel, chrome, nickle. With black, golds or copper look better. Your floor from the music room photo looks really beautiful. Your other photo that shows orange makes me think that black might be better than chocolate, but not by much, and there's the brown brick again to think about. I'm going to post other picture to help.

Here are a couple of kitchens with warm wood floors and dark (chocolate vs black) cabinets. They have a different feel to them. Which do you like? Which do you want for this entire area?

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Personally, with orange floors, I think the black or charcoal is more elegant. Also, the piano is stained very dark. Can you come close to matching the kitchen cabinetry to the piano color? Is it black? What wood is the piano?

You mentioned you want white countertop and backsplash. Is that white white? Or white marble-look? Will your upper cabinets be white slab to look like a wall? Or will they be the same as the lower cabinets?

Your music room walls look like a yellow cream. Will you repaint in white? Or a  color?

You might like this article for tips on upping the elegance factor with materials choices:

Check out this story from houzz - https://www.houzz.com/houzz-tv/tour-a-beautiful-historic-home-reimagined-with-glamour-stshtvvw-vt~154902150

Rebunky, thanks for sharing your mom's results. It's really disappointing that her finish isn't holding up better, given the how expensive / difficult it is to reface. 10/15 years is really soon, right? This will encourage me to make sure I don't get too invested in KM too early.

Herbsflavor, thanks for the great finish photos. I'm not committed to a particular brand or installer yet. So far I've looked mainly at specs and finish lists for Kraftmaid, Schuler, Diamond / Thomasville (which I think are the same family), and Barker RTA.

AWM03, if I want to look for other similarly dark stains, Barker has espresso on quartersawn oak, red oak, or cherry slab doors; Thomasville/Diamond have a stain called "Chocolate"; Schuler offers espresso on cherry only I think. To go a level or two lighter, I think the next lighter warm brown from KM is probably their "Kaffe." Schuler has a "Walnut" stain that it offers on quartersawn and "straight grain" oak, plus "French Roast" and "Eagle Rock." Barker has natural walnut (which I think probably won't work with my floors - but might make sense to use if I replace them) and walnut with a "tamarack" stain (which appears to make walnut a little bit darker and warmer, which might pivot it toward the warmth I need). There's probably some other colors I have forgotten.

KL, I like black kitchens and am open to black on the cabinetry, counter or tile if I need it to create continuity between finishes on the first floor. (The piano, library, and a couple of smaller accent pieces are matte black.) But if I *don't* need black, I feel like a warmer medium-to-dark brown stain on the cabinets + white/cream + my dark red coffee maker + the red brick fireplace would work better together in the space and feel cozier. You are right: the current wall color is a yellow cream (SW Navajo White); we could repaint to a white.

I’m not necessarily a fan of very dark kitchens (looove natural walnut!), but I like the quarter-sawn oak better than the plain sawn, definitely. Also: you do NOT need to match kitchen cabs or furniture to a piano! (If that were the case, every house that has a black piano in it would sport black kitchens and/or furniture.)

Danielle, I like both options! I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide. Personally, I'm crazy about chocolate. :-)

Danielle, I am just getting back to this thread and when you mentioned the “Kaffe” color being the next lighter stain from the darkest peppercorn, it triggered my memory. My mom’s cabinets are the Kaffe, not the Peppercorn! Sorry about that.

Here is a photo showing the door I posted above. That is the pantry cabinet in the background. I think it shows the grain and the stain color much better. Isn’t it strange how the top door of the pantry looks so much lighter then the lower door? It looks like a totally different stain color, but it doesn’t look that drastic in real life. Lighting does weird things!

ETA: I said interior above, but I meant exterior! I edited it.

With the door open, the sun hits it and shows the color better. 🙄🤪

This image reminded me of your post. I think it looks handsome and would certainly translate with your floors and fireplace:

Note: obviously not a slab door which made me ask why not a simple shaker?

And I think you can go the more contemporary route with the slab door look but then I’d suggest cleaning up the fireplace trim and mantle to a more contemporary profile. If you keep your FP as it currently is then I think the simple shaker look above seems more fitting.

Thanks for the additional photo, Rebunky. BTW, your mom has some very interesting glass doors there!

ThingDesignLive, I do like the brown stains you are posting. Shaker doors are definitely in the running. I really like both slab and shaker.

I have a particular fascination with slab doors for a reason that marylut articulated really well: I like how a slab door has the capacity to take a traditional material like wood, particularly one with a visible and interesting grain pattern, and showcase it by not adding any adornment or direction other than what is on the wood itself. There's a traditional element, and a contemporary element to the combination that are a lot of fun together. So, if I can find just the right wood / color and get it on a slab door, that might be my favorite idea so I'm kind of keeping my eye out to see what's out there. It's harder to identify what "works" for this goal (other than walnut--which is gorgeous on a slab and arguably a little frantic when running in 4 directions), so I talk about it a little more simply because its an unanswered question.

However, I really like shaker doors too - and I think if the wood/stain selection isn't particularly patterned but looks really uniform / flat on a flat door, then I might prefer a shaker door because the door itself adds a little visual interest.

We could keep the fireplace mantle and trim to how it is now or install a more modern mantle -- maybe a nice piece of wood without any fancy decorations that fits with whatever look the kitchen winds up having? The "mantle" there right now is just a wall shelf put in by a prior owner and held up at only a couple of points. So it's super easy to take down and replace with something different (and perhaps more securely mounted!). I assume the trim around it is pretty easy to change out too.

Danielle, you are focused on wood and stain right now. You are sure you want white countertops. That's fine, but can I ask you, once you actually nail down the wood and stain, to give some time to consider what white or light countertop most flatters the wood and stain you finally choose and how it will connect with your appliance materials and the rest of the house. Where else will you use white, for example, so it doesn't stick out like something someone else installed. Maybe you already have white vanity counters in all your bathrooms, and what do I know… I'm just asking you to think about the whole house as you select your cabinets. I have the 80s raised panel oak cabinets you described, and I feel as you do, that they are dated. I think Shaker cabinets, while beautiful, because of their popularity, also will date a house someday. Therefore, and because I don't like the ledges collecting dust and the sharp edges, I also am looking at contemporary slab cabinets. I like the full-overlay ones that just disappear and look like a wall when closed, no handles, for uppers or floor to ceiling. For lower cabinets, I like pillow edged slabs, because the drawers look so much like chocolate bars with the right stain. I'm a bit unsure if I like pillow edged doors though. You might be glad to know the terminology in this article if you are new to it like me:

https://www.houzz.com/magazine/learn-the-lingo-of-kitchen-cabinet-door-styles-stsetivw-vs~23429483

K L, it's a good question about how to integrate white / offwhite counters into the rest of the house. One reason I didn't even consider white kitchen cabinetry is that it seems like it would be out of place. If I do swing light on the counters/tile then I'll suppose I'll need a tone that fits with the house. Or maybe repainting the walls to a warm white would help. If I can make it work, I do like the idea of a rich deep brown (how light/dark TBD), a red range and/or coffee maker, the red brick fireplace ... and then something that balances all the warm / dark out. Gotta put some butter on that pumpernickel bread; some vanilla ice cream on the brownie; a marshmallow on the hot cocoa....

I haven't had breakfast, clearly.

Another variation on this idea would be to do more of a medium brown on the cabinetry, dark (soapstone?) counters, and a white tile.

I agree with you on cleaning: I'd much rather wipe down a slab door than deal with all the little ledges on shaker doors et al. I find my current shakers doors a pesky to clean because of the little crevasses and corners. And a really dark stain like chocolate needs extra cleaning.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but if you go sans hardware, one thing to consider is that fingerprints are really going to show up on a dark door, esp. if it's smooth/reflective.

I had slab kitchen cabinets without hardware. Absolutely hated them. They would get dirty (house with kids) and I broke my nails on them all the time. I ended up adding hardware, couldn’t take it anymore.

I love slab with hardware.

It's an excellent point that no hardware could show fingerprints... Will... Show fingerprints. And I should be more concerned about the family arthritis too. Too bad some pretty things can be so impractical. Hopefully I can find hardware so pretty I feel like Shasta. 

Meanwhile, Danielle, I love brown and red too. Are we talking Coca Cola red? Will you repeat that in other rooms too? Could be cool! I noticed that another color that looks good with chocolate is a sort of silvery blue pale grey. I was thinking I'd have stainless steel with my chocolate cabinets, maybe some lucite hardware, a light medium grey soapstone or marble-look counter repeated behind the stove top, mirrored backsplash, and in one place, replacing a lone upper cabinet, hanging glass shelves in Coke-bottle green. I have some deep evergreen and some grey blue in other rooms in the house.

Still waiting on most of my medium-dark brown samples. But some sample chips for "kaffee" and "saddle" did arrive from Kraftmaid. These are a bit lighter than "peppercorn" is.

Arguably the stains come out prettiest / deepest on knotty alder. I also really like them on oak. So just for fun, here's the chips for knotty alder with a faux marble, a warm white tile, and my orange floors. (I seems like the knotty alder would want a stone top? Therefore the marblesque sample.)

Saddle

Kaffee

Kaffee is definitely warm/red. Saddle is less warm - I'm unsure what kind of brown it is. Slightly warm? Neutral? Gray-brown?

If we decided to go with slab doors from Kraftmaid, these stains are available on red oak, maple, and cherry. If we decide to go more traditional, then quartersawn oak, and knotty alder (in addition to regular oak / maple / cherry) are all available on a shaker door.

Door selection will probably drive me nuts in the end because our house is a suburban colonial with no real builtin or trim besides our fireplace. So, I need to stay away from extremes and some of the material/doors I liked might be strongly associated to particular styles. I can do slab doors, provided things don't get too modern/sleek. I can do a wood with character on a shaker door, but I have to remember that I haven't got a log cabin or a craftsman house.

When I get some of the equivalent colors from Schuler or some other major lines, I'll post photos. I figure others will stumble on the thread looking for brown cabinets. Maybe the photos will help. :)

@K L

Oh, I like all the reds! But here's my personal vice:

There isn't red all over the house - just warm colors generally. But I do have some artwork with red, a dark red toaster, and a dark red coffee maker. So, a little here and there.

And yes, I kinda want that induction range...I need my ancient electric coil range to break...unfortunately those puppies are built to last!

I don't know why I just thought of this...maybe just knackered... Get a Hershey's chocolate bar out and lay it next to the cabinet chips. Maybe get the toaster and coffee maker out too and make a photographic collage with them and your cabinet chips and your tile chips. See which ones fit and which don't. I don't know. Maybe it will help.

Danielle, your upper cabinets end rather abruptly like mine do. Mine creep me out; they just hang there without corbels. I like the idea of uppers that disappear into the wall. What do you think of a floor to ceiling wall between your kitchen and family room that comes out just far enough to hide the end your upper cabinets to give it a more finished look? Another benefit is the eased transition between the two rooms better supports upper cabinets that match your base cabinets. 

I like the Kaffe and Saddle a little better than the previous espresso, but the real question is how well it goes with the reds you love. I really want to see your toaster and coffee maker in future pictures you post please. :-) And also include the floor. 

People talk about a warming trend away from whites and grey's that dominated and kinda still do. When I hear that I think, "ugh, back to yellows and oranges," but I have to remind myself red is warm too like red-hot, right? So I look at chocolate and really dark chocolate is a dark red. So maybe that's where to head? I'd really like you to find a way to embrace your love of red. Your most excited post so far has been about red. I feel like you tapped into something special. There are so many hues of red, and texture has a strong effect on them. You don't need much red to have an effect. The background cabinet will make all the difference. I leave you with a parting image to study carefully. I'm not sure bright white is the best foil for the dark cabinets you want so am making trouble. :-)

More trouble... Chocolate red and wait ..is that silvery grey marble?

why am I suddenly craving red wine, lava cake, and coffee au lait in Danielle’s new kitchen?

I installed Kraftmade oak in a black stain in bathrooms and laundry room and just love it. White quartz countertops with a bouble-like pattern. Laundry room pictured.

Valinta - Your black cabinets came out really nicely! I really like how the grain pattern adds interest and depth. I understand the comments upthread where dark stains are faulted for covering up the wood grain - which is true - but one of the advantages of the marriage of a black or dark stain to a grainy wood is that the black tones the grain down, while the grain underneath offers a very different presentation of the finish. Your doors have some subtle depth to them; the black would look different with a flat, shinier surface.

K L, you are cracking me up! Also, I'm clearly a glutton. And I do love marble.

You do bring up a point about the red. I've been pretty fixated on the orange floors because they're literally everywhere. But ThinkDesignLive made a good point I hadn't really considered: the large brick fireplace is the other important reference point. Maybe what I should be doing is looking for something that looks good with the red fireplace and that fisher paykel red range.

Second, I also need the color to work with the floors - there's no way around that. But I might also need to replace/refinish the oak floors, so I might have more control over the tones in the floor than I am accounting for. I am leaning toward changing the footprint of the kitchen, and the floors don't run under the cabinets. If do decide to change the footprint and I can't somehow patch the floor or move some boards--I have no idea if that's a thing, or impossible/unlikely to work--then I have to select new flooring or refinish the existing boards. I imagine I'd still want an oak floor in some warm, classic color, but I may gain control more control over the tone and how dark/light it is.

Danielle, in looking at the samples, I think I prefer the saddle given how warm your floors already are. Also, since you mention alder, I thought I would add my recently done kitchen with dark brown alder cabs and similar tile and counters to your photos, though my tile is a cool white with warm brown splotches (meant to look like imperfections I guess). Anyway, contrary to hiding the grain the dark brown shows it quite nicely in the sun.

Now that I see the slab options I kind of wish I went with that, but I think it works with shaker too.

ok, I don’t think the photos posted. Let me try again.

Can warm and cool browns go together? Mmmmmmmmaybe?

I think I like the Kaffee with your floor.  In your most recent photos, what is the white rectangle? It seems a little harsh to me. I like the square thing. Is that your counter? Will you use your counter material as your backsplash? That seems to be the thing to do these days, and taking it to the bottom of the base cabinets. Some take it to the ceiling or bottom of a soffit in some places, like around your windows. How would you like to refinish your fireplace surround in that same marble or similar? That would tie the two rooms together and be more appropriately elegant for your intended use of it as a dining room. Brick was the default when your home was built but not anymore, so changing to marble would be an update too.

Iluvdark kychns - Thanks for sharing your pictures. Your kitchen is gorgeous! I hadn't really considered alder until herbflavor posted a photo of it upthread, and until I saw how rich/deep some of the stains look on it (on sample pieces at least).

I'd always just passed right over alder in the past, since a lot of the pictures of it are in kitchens that are clearly gunning for heavy, rustic looks (14' stone fireplace, view of the rockies, oversized leather furniture, etc). Now I'm wondering if it can be used in a less rustic setting/kitchen successfully--and your kitchen is an encouraging example.

One thing I've noticed from casual photo browsing is that there seems to be a lot of variation in how uniform / not uniform alder looks once stained. Did you find that when exploring alder as an option? What company and stain did you wind up using?

K L .... um, brownies...Wait, what was the question? Oh, the bright white item: That's a sample tile from Fireclay Tile of Calcite, which is a matte, bright white ceramic tile that is just slightly beige/warm in tone. I've been using it as a prop since its very bright but seems to harmonize OK with surrounding warm finishes.

I don't know what I'll do with the fireplace. I like the red brick, so I haven't really considered augmenting it or trying to cover it much. But that white wall shelf masquerading as a mantel can easily be removed in favor of a new mantel that fits with the kitchen.

Kaffee vs. Saddle: I'd love opinions on these colors. I'm unsure whether to lean toward super warm/reddish stains that "match" what is here (like Kaffee), or whether bring in a midtone brown for some contrast (like Saddle), provided its not a gray and the undertones don't fight. I'm about 110 percent sure the Kaffee looks good, but something about the Saddle is appealing because of its difference.

Danielle, In answer to your question, it was actually just a local cabinet maker and they make their own stains, so I’m not sure it would have much meaning to you. There is some variation in the wood, but I prefer its grain pattern over oaks. Also the variation is less noticeable in artificial light than sunlight. All told I would probably prefer maple, but I hear that maple is very difficult to stain and is much more expensive. The one thing to keep in mind with alder is it is a softer wood than both oak and maple. It’s still classified as a hardwood. It’s just lower on the hardness scale. However, I’m reading that it is more plentiful and a faster growing tree and so I think that makes them a more sustainable option. it may be why it is often less expensive.

That unknown you like about the Saddle... Might it be the gloss level?

As long as you are exploring various woods, have you considered the grain in bamboo cabinetry?

Thought of you and your love of the red range…

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I have not read the entire thread, but the search for dark cabinetry caught my attention. It has taken me awhile to like my kitchen, which I am finally starting to do. The big black box, (fridge) needs to go...in time.

I agree, likestonehomes. I like stainless steel with dark cabinets. I like your hood with your cabinets. I like black appliances with mid-tone oak, because the black brings out the grain really well. That's what I have.