I think it was him not you, probably more used to new construction. I mean, what’s this?

I think it was him not you, probably more used to new construction. I mean, what’s this?

Yeah, that's the kind of detail I would have expected him to disclose in advance and we'd talk through the options. I'm going to build up that ledge a bit to go above the skirting. He does do retrofits and complex projects, so this is disappointing.

I'm betting your stairbuilder has a jig that he uses to cut the skirt board that is not adjustable and he didn't want to make a new one, so he just used the 7 3/4" one and trimmed the top and bottom in an attempt to make it work.

He has a machine that routers out for the treads and risers. I can't imagine that it wouldn't be adjustable. Who builds stairs with only 7 3/4" rise?

Your floor is 1 1/8" out of level over a 3 foot or so span?

No, it's only 1/2" (see my text above where I measured both sides). He's trying to remember details, which is why we need to discuss on site.

Thanks for confirming my thinking on the rest of this. I expected him to measure the rise from off-level top landing to perfectly-constructed mid-landing, adjust mid-landing up by 3/4", divide by 9, and use that for the rise of each step. Then the top would be 1/2" short on one side, but that's way better than 1 1/4".

If the mid-landing was indeed 3/4" too high, then the 4 steps leading up to it (or just the top one, if he did the generic 7 3/4" rise) would have too high a rise. Which they don't. So I think, again, that he's mis-remembering his calculations, and trying to come up with a justification after the fact. I'm hoping that what I perceived as defensiveness in his texts will abate once he takes out his tape and sees what he actually did. And that he does the right thing and corrects it.

Sounds like you are taking on a remodel...building a staircase, turning the attic into livable space.

Stop, now. Weedy, you have to pull a permit. Don't waste your time and money until you get one. Fast forward and you want to sell your home. That staircase will come back and bite you. Everything you did without a permit probably will have to be ripped out. And the attic, with no window egress? Picture lawyers smacking their lips.

judianna20: In our small town, permits are not needed for self-performed work by the owners within the existing footprint of the structure. So fortunately no lip-smacking lawyers in our future.

One of the joys of living in the midwest. :-)

There are windows in the attic (now technically 2nd floor). I restored them myself and now they open easily for quick exit in case of fire.

My concern is that the contractor no longer falls under self performing renovation.

The last person on earth you want on site is someone from the local division of inspection with his red tag in hand. Cut a deal and move on please.

Guys, I totally get that in some jurisdictions inspectors are Nazis. I know our system and the individuals involved well, and they know me. I have pulled permits when adding to the footprint of a previous house, constructing a manufacturing facility, and modifying restrooms in the facility, all of which require permits. I happily comply with permit and inspection requirements, because I want to follow code.

There is no issue here with permits or risk of shutdown. That may seem unbelievable to those of you that live under dictatorial permitting departments, but it's really true here in flyover country. We've got a reasonable building inspector and fire chief. But thanks for your concern. :-)

Palimpsest: though I can't ever envision an inspector showing up and inspecting the stairs, there's no way they'd know that I didn't build them.

Update: I met the guy on site yesterday. We spent an hour taking measurements and, unfortunately, talking in circles.

He set an 8' level on the top tread at the high end, held it level, and ran a tape up to it from the landing. Then he divided that by 10 (the number of steps from the landing to the top, which resulted in X" and said that's what he built the stairs to. Then, when he got there and everything was out of kilter (really just the top landing), he took the extra out on the top and bottom steps of the run.

We measured the rise of each of the 10 stairs along that same high side. The middle 8 were the same, the top and bottom ones were shorter. If you add the rises together, it was 1" less than the rise that he measured using his level.

My contention: 2+2 can't equal 5. The sum of the rises has to equal the total rise. I hypothesize that his method of using the level to measure is not accurate enough.

His contention: It's an old house, it's wonky, Stuff doesn't line up or add up. He built them to his total rise measurement, so therefore they're right.

My counter: we are measuring between 2 points on one side of the landing. Regardless of where the walls are or whether the treads slope from one side to the other (they don't), the rise at that point is the rise.

I could not get him to acknowledge that the sum of the rises has to equal the total rise and therefore either we're measuring the individual rises wrong or the total rise wrong.

Where we left it was (my suggestion; he's not offering up any) that I'm going to measure everything with lasers. We were measuring step rises with a tape and speed square, crouching down to get eye level, and his measurements were varying a bit. But I've got a digital laser measurer that will measure distance to the 1/32." And I'll round up a laser level that I can put on the top step and get the actual total rise. With lasers, they'll have to add up to the same thing.

And a couple other side notes: he started going after "the landing wasn't level" and then put his level on it and it was. After measuring the lower run, with all the rises matching those of the upper one, he didn't mention the landing being too high, which was his claim in our initial text exchange. I think he just can't fathom that he could make a mistake.

Any other ideas how to get this guy to listen?

Unlike your spouse or your kids, math never lies. He's not to the "acceptance" stage of his grieving; he's still in denial. When you inflict the pain of the cost of rebuilding, he will have learned his lesson. It's for his own good.

All this measuring on your part shouldn't be needed. He built a non conforming stair and it needs to be corrected.

I imagine you were not on site when the work was being done, and that you did not immediately inspect the work, and that you have already paid in full.

It seems like he is finished with your job and it's up to you to correct the work.

Before he made a non-standard step, he should have discussed it with you. He should have measured first and known. That's what you pay a pro for, not for a jerry-rigged solution that you didn't know what going to be jerry-rigged.

All this measuring on your part shouldn't be needed. He built a non conforming stair and it needs to be corrected.

Ding, ding, ding! It's very frustrating that a pro is being this thick-headed and that I have to spend so much time and energy trying to convince him that he made a mistake. I have indeed paid him in full, but his wife works for me, so I don't think that he's going to be a bridge-burner. Hope not.

I hope his wife uses a calculator better than him.

He simply miscalculated everything and end up with a none code compliant set of stairs.

There shouldn’t be a height difference of more than 3/8" between the tallest and shortest riser.

When you jump into the middle of someone else's job, as he did, you have to decide if you're going to completely do it over or if there is something to salvage. He decided to salvage the landing and that was his mistake.

Years ago, I told a customer I could rebuild the lower half of her shower that was leaking with no guarantee or I could rebuild the whole thing with a guarantee for more money. She chose the former, saved some money, and since I haven't gotten a callback in 7 years, apparently she chose wisely. Same thing here.

Well, the plot thickens. I took very careful laser measurements and the math isn't working. I need help untangling this.

I first measured the rise of each step. Like this:

The 8 middle steps were all 8" +/- 1/32". Aha! The smoking gun, I thought. The first step measured 7 3/4" and the top step 7 5/16". This all along the left side of the stairs.

If you add all the measurements together, they total 79 1/16".

Then I used a self-leveling laser set at the top landing, measured the landing-to-laser as 6 3/4", then ran a tape up at the lower landing and it hit at 84 3/4". Subtract the two and you get 78".

There is obviously no way that 78=79, so I tried to narrow down the possibilities.

1. Hypothesis: my laser measure was out of calibration. Checked it against my tape measure across an open doorway and they were right on.

2. Hypothesis: the treads were slanted slightly. Laid my laser measure on them, and they were sloped minimally, .1-.3 degrees towards the front, which is the opposite of what would be needed to have 78=79.

3. Hypothesis: I was measuring something wrong. I had Mr. Weedy verify everything I had recorded, and check my math. He did, and was just as puzzled as me.

What else could explain this?

I should note that on the right side, the bottom step rise is 7 9/16" and the top step rise is 6 13/16. That totals 78 3/8", and the total measure was 77 1/2". So again, we're an inch off.

Help? What am I missing?

He said your suggestion would cause a trip step??? Sounds like he built a few in already.

This is why death via stairs was common 100+ years ago especially on back stairs. Builders would do a shoddy job on narrow servant stairways with uneven steps; and the staff would be falling down them left and right especially when carrying trays, wearing long dresses etc...

Your riser should be 7 13/16" with 78 3/8" Toral rise.