Me three. There are horrid chickens here - the demand for cheap food that is only going to be more important...... but european standards are higher than some American states...... the fear was that after Brexit, America would push for trade deals that meant Britain would have to take American chicken. There's a label system here so you can choose your price point and have certain guarantees concerning the living standards of the birds. It's very complicated for people who can only afford to buy the cheapest meat.

Are bugs not organic? (Scratches head.)

I will eat only pastured poultry, a specific technique developed by Joel Salatin for raising birds involving bottomless cages on grass that are moved daily. A meat bird advertised as "free range" is a marketing ploy--meat birds put on weight so fast that they cannot walk far--they would never walk out of a structure and onto free range grass. (This is not true of laying hens who will range far and wide.) Pastured poultry birds are usually not strictly organic. And organic birds are almost always raised just as commercial birds are; they just are fed organic feed.

I was a partner in a pastured poultry operation some years ago and there is no going back to either "organic" or commercial.

I am lucky to have access to a small organic poultry farmer who sells at our Farmer's Market. The chicken is the best I've ever eaten and reminds me of how chicken tasted when I was growing up. He processes the birds on Thursdays and sells on Saturdays only. He doesn't sell during the winter, so I'm headed to the market tomorrow to stock the freezer for a few months' worth.

The next best I've ever had are Mary's Organic Chickens out of California. If you can get them, they are really wonderful.

Colleen, bugs cannot met the current organic standards here because no one can prove that it hasn't been sprayed with something, taken a stroll through the Sevin on the neighbor's tomatoes or hitched a ride on a local cow or horse which has been treated with Ivermectin for parasites. So, nope, not organic as the term is currently defined.

The "meat" chickens sold by commercial hatcheries are, by and large, Cornish Cross or Cornish Rock. They are bred for a greater ratio of breast meat and smaller legs and thighs, and can reach 7 pounds in 7 weeks. In contrast, the "heritage" breeds take at least 6 months to reach about 4 pounds, possibly longer.

The "experts" (who do such studies, whoever they are) say that the longer growth period and additional exercise produces a more flavorful and less fatty bird. I agree.

I do have the luxury of growing my own, and so I can control the feed they receive, the housing they are kept in, the environment in most cases, although I can't control those bugs, LOL. So mine aren't organic, and I can't even guarantee that they are "vegetarian fed" because bugs and worms are not vegetarian. It's far better chicken than I can get at the store, though, and so I raise about 2 dozen every year and put them in the freezer, but this also requires that we slaughter/pluck/clean them ourselves.

So yeah, I guess I'm a "chicken snob" too, and my breed of choice is Rhode Island Red, a nice dual purpose bird, so if I get a stray cockerel among my pullets, well, he's dinner, LOL. I have raised the Cornish Rock birds too, and although it's better than the stuff from the store, it's still not as flavorful as the heritage type.

Annie

That's a crazy definition, because if you (not you personally Annie) think that way then you have to say that pretty well nothing is organic, because you have no way of knowing what's in the water anywhere, and you can guarantee that it's contaminated with something inorganic.

Colleen, it's just a legal weenie definition. I read something recently that certified organic chickens must go outside daily. That's not even about the feed. I mean, I'm all for humane, so good for the standards weenies for tacking it on, but looking too closely at the word ”organic” (which doesn't mean carbon based, and the French, ”biologique”, sounds better) is a real head scratcher. Still, the legal definition for chickens, here, is only fed organic feed. Mary's, referenced above by Olychick, produces both kinds. Pre+pandemic, I usually bought them (delivery from that store isn't worth it). The size and shape of the organic ones were better, but the flavor of regular was better. They show pictures of their sheds. They have big doors, and fenced (IIRC) yards outside for the chickens to get their walkabout time in the air and sun. Awhile back, Annie said they'd likely stay in and eat. Given the requirement that they go out which I just read, perhaps they stop feeding them for a few hours so they'll go out...

Your birds are so big. A roaster here is from 1.2 to 1.7 kgs.

That has been happening across the board in groceries since the 60's. Bred for size and weight and as quickly as possible. Produce like tomatoes, strawberries, apples. Many shop by price having large families and on a tight budget.

I can add pastured chickens to my local farm share that average 3-3.5 pounds. In rotation i have been stocking CooksVenture, usually 3 pounds pastured, and have a Mary's in the freezer. It is just under 4 pounds.

Pre covid we would stop at a local farm but he freaked during lock-down. Locked his gate and took down his sign. He has city restaurant accounts so locals were just some bread and butter. Roasted chicken dinners became popular for take-out and delivery so i'm sure he did fine.

A few weeks into lock down we ordered 40 pounds of chicken cages for 25$ loaded with meat. A box of meaty beef bones and i think 10 pounds of boneless skinless chicken thighs. Lots of veg. All from a high end restaurant supply. I had to dust off the big lobster/clam pot and simmer outside on a portable burner. Took all day but we had the time, 🙄.

Doubt i will ever do that again but it was one of the best master stocks i've ever made. I roasted the chicken cages and bones in batches in the oven and braised the chicken thighs on the stovetop. --Chilled then added chopped later to my soups for the freezer.

Fortunately i had a thin freezer at the time. Most of the stocks were pure frozen in pints and 1/2 pints.

None of our local farm shares have raised prices at all. They went from 5,000 subscribers to 20,000 in 2020. The farmers are happy. Supporting local keeps us happy with quality grass fed proteins. We just eat smaller portions.

That said, and back to the original point of the post, it can be done using grocery chickens with more aromatics and some roasting. My parents have always purchased via price. The cheapest turkey, The grocery roma tomatoes--tasteless. The cheapest ground round for burgers full of water that steam---no sear. Tough chewy steaks on sale. Bacon that is so full of fat it shrinks to nothing once cooked. Higher quality protien/organic veg can be an eqal price point with some research.

Colleen, I think the organic standards in the United States have become so convoluted that they have become nearly meaningless. Farmers are starting to advertise that their product is "raised in an organic manner", which is usually a lot more organic than the organic products at the grocery store. The list of things that organic farms are allowed to use are getting longer and longer.

So, is "organic" better than not? Yes, probably. Is it chemical free. Probably not. You know what happens when politicians get involved in stuff.

Annie

Am I remembering right? IIRC, the private certification outfits were tweaked by the Federal ”standards“ when they went in, because they were so loose and inauthentic...

@sleevendog (5a NY 6aNYC NL CA), I’ve heard them called carcases and frames, but never cages. I was at first imagining large aviary cages for keeping live chickens in and wondering why you would have meat loaded into them. 😂

LOL. Yeah, me too. Seems to be a new generation of butchers that take this seriously. Might be the restaurant/butcher relationship to take it further for communication?

Certain offerings were simplified in groceries in past generations. Covid and now getting local farm meat share and different stock bones from a high end restaurant share---chicken backs, cages, chicken feets, duck paws...beef bones, big knuckles, marrow bones---cut into thin coins, or sliced 2 inch, then 'canoe' sliced long and in half. I'm getting bavette, denver cut, shaved beef, beef tip ends, bacon ends at 4$ a pound.--perfect for a ounce chopped/seared garnish for chowders. Still meaty bacon but not that perfect long slice most are used to. Chicken necks, pork trotters, ...local grass fed farmers have support now. When we considered canceling holidays 2019, they said "please don't". "we have a back-log of 500. "just change your delivery date that suits you".

Grocery store chicken is almost inedible, by my estimation. I only buy the more expensive chicken from the natural foods store, or, the halal store. If you have a halal store in your community , you might check it out. We happen to have a nice halal store and the chickens are so clean and so full of good flavor. One average sized chicken is going to cost up to $10, but I have them take off the skin and they will cut it into as many pieces as you want.

It has none of that nasty yellow fat and it smells just a light raw meat smell. It is so clean and it makes such a nice strong broth.

I would rather buy one better qualtiy chicken than any number of cheap chickens.

I wont buy any chicken unless it it the better ones. I would rather not eat chicken if it is just cheap stuff.

YOu sure wont get good chicken at any restaurant and I sure wont go out and pay a restaurant to serve me chicken that I would not eat at home.

There are lots of good options that dont involve meat.

It is not just your imagination. Grocery store chicken is almost inedible, in my estimation.

However, I do understand why you would balk at buying expensive chicken for a large crowd. It can be very expensive. I understand your dilema . And I understand your deep disappointment in the cooking results of that cheap chicken.

I find much the same with beef and rarely buy beef anymore unless, like the chicken, it is from a source of better raised animals.

Grocery store meat often smells of chemicals and death, and that goes for those cheap roasted chickens that you buy for about five bucks. The last one that I bought, I buried in the back yard and will never buy another one of those, for sure. They are just chock full of chemicals, salt and smell to have been dipped in some disinfectant or some manner. Just awful!! From the egg, to the chicken to the littel domed styrofoam container you buy it in is all fraught with negative for both you and the poor chicken, and the environment.

No one wins this, everyone loses with this cheap chicken production.

Restaurants here often name the grower and do serve good chickens.

Well despite my concerns regarding the chicken, the soup was a big hit i.e. no leftovers.

To those who commented on the loose definitions of organic, pasture raised chickens, I purchase all my chicken from a local farm so I know what the chickens are fed and how they are raised. The chickens average 3-3.5 lbs. once dressed and are delicious. They are expensive averaging about $7 a pound but well worth the price.

I think the nutritional value of local organic raised poultry, meats, grains and vegetables is higher as my family seems to consume less yet still be satisfied. This makes the cost per serving more cost effective.